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Marlin 336 38-55 locking bolt oversized


Red Cent

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Maybe. I have a Marlin 336 in 38-55. I am driven to wring out as much accuracy as I can. I plan to do a number of things to the rifle including lapping the barrel to the receiver. Learned a lot about barrels and receivers and how they mate :ph34r: Thread interference is very interesting. I never thought that a barrel could get that tight ;) . This may affect head space so I want an extra bolt lock in my bag.

And I will be getting detailed. One guy said he improved his groups by modding the extractor slot in the barrel so the extractor would press on the case only and the case would settle in the same position in the chamber. Consistency . 10-22 owners "pin" the firing pin so it will strike the rim the same place every time. Consistentcy.

I would guess a few eyes rolled on those facts. I bought the book Accurizing the Factroy Rifle by M. L. McPherson. I had heard of his thru-bolt stabilizer that pulls the receiver tight in to the stock and the set up provides super rigidity. At first, I did an eye roll until I found out that way back when there were flintlock and cap and ball rifles made with a through bolt. His success using RTV silicone wisely is well documented.

The Marlin lever action has no "leade". Nor does the H&R single shot. Requires a little thought on your reloads.

Gonna pick up a crown cutter and a pilot. I have a couple of bolt actions that may need crowned. And boy, do I need a better caliper. What is the price where I get a good caliper and don't overpay.

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Howdy RED.

 

WHEW, you're getting into some serious stuff.

 

Don't forget 'tight neck chamber' in your barrel and 'neck turning' of your brass

 

And don't forget about where your bullet sits in relation to your lands and grooves. You will need to actually test your ammo to see if your accuracy is best when the bullet touches the lands or will your best accuracy happen when the bullets sits about .005 away from the lands.

 

I once owned a 6mm BR and I obtained my best accuracy when my bullet was approx .003 from touching the lands.

 

Yep, I know this sounds crazy, but there are loading instruments you can buy that can really help you be highly technical in reloading.

 

SINCLAIR, which is now owned by Brownells, is a great place to check out all the 'goodies' for reloading.

 

Now after I've said all that, my opinion is that the human factor of obtaining great accuracy in shooting will just about void all the little tricks we try to encompass into our rifles.

 

Another good accuracy technique is finding the best powder, bullet and bullet weight components that work best in that particular rifle.

 

Also, get you a carbide primer pocket reamer that establishes the same primer seating depth on all your brass.

AND...get a flash hole deburring tool that trims he flash hole inside the case. When these holes are punched/drilled into the case, they leave some small, jagged pieces of brass. Removal of these allows your primer flash to be more uniform in igniting your powder.

 

I will admit that these things are some of the things some of your top benchrest shooters might do on their high dollar BR rifles.

 

I ain't sure they would be noticeably beneficial in a lever action. But some of them might help.

 

BEST REGARDS

 

 

..........Widder

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Howdy- I had one of these rifles, for a time. The story everyone was runnin' with was something on the ordwer of that the rifles had been made with bore specs from days of yore, but the chambers were closer to to that required for .375 Winchester. MY rifle had a bore that favored cast bullets in the .380- .382" range, the problem being with the brass then commonly available, ( and the sizing dies, to boot ) a round simply assembled in the usual manner, with a bullet sized to fit the Marlin bore, would NOT fit in the Marlin chamber ( the tight neck chamber referred to by Widder ) ! I took to a compromise; smaller than ideal bullet diameter, and had to inside ream the case necks. IF I recall properly, some smiths developed a chamber reamer profile that would allow hand loaders to more easily use bullets sized to the bore, and Star-Line came out with slightly different brass to help along. Do NOT know if sizing dies where ever brought into line with the reality of these rifles before they were dropped by Marlin.

Just working from memory there; that all was going more than 10 years back. I'm sure that if others care to, I shall be corrected or flamed for remembering what I do concerning MY rifle.

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I don't think all of that work is truly necessary. The Marlins are pretty accurate with good loads. Mine will group an inch at 200 yards. The guru of those guns is a man that goes by Wind. He usually hangs out at Marlin owners website or the Lever gun Scoundrel's website. He also has quite a few videos on YouTube if him shooting loooong distances.

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Oversize locking bolts for the a Marlin may exist but I have never seen one and never heard of one advertised for sale. The bolt has to fit in the mortise in the receiver. It it were oversize (i.e., thicker or wider) it would not fit in the receiver.

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Oversize locking bolts for the a Marlin may exist but I have never seen one and never heard of one advertised for sale. The bolt has to fit in the mortise in the receiver. It it were oversize (i.e., thicker or wider) it would not fit in the receiver.

I think you'd have to make one, and it could only be thicker at the area between the frame sides. I applaud any effort in the chase for accuracy from any gun. I once had a Marlin 30-30 that shot a ragged 100yd group with 125gr spire point, just because I could! Off sanbags, to be clear, but hey ...

 

CR

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Oh boy :P

 

Don't know where to start. Reloaded for over 50 years. I can shoot. Bench or otherwise. Insatiable reader/researcher.

 

I have reloaded the 38-55 long, short, and sideways. Different bullet weights. Crimp or no crimp. Resize or no resize.

 

Yes, some 'smiths do use the bolt block to handle headspace. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/repairing-your-guns/84123-how-adjust-head-space.html

M. L. McPherson goes into detail how to shape the oversized block in his book "Accurizing the Modern Rifle".

 

I have been using the "short" 38-55 brass and will order a couple hundred of the 2.125" from Starline soon. The short brass loads chamber easily loaded very long. The long brass has thin walls also for the 379s.

 

"Mine will group an inch at 200 yards​." Lord have mercy. Must be a 45-70. CK, they all need tinkering :D . 'Course, if mine did an inch at 100 yards, I might just enjoy.

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Lumpy, the sinker squished down to .378 to the bottom of the groove. 380s (Meister) show signs of "heeling" at 200 yards and, so far, 4" or so at 100 yards. Little grey spot somewhere on the edge of the hole. I don't think I have tried 378s.

The Unique goes about 1000 fps. The 4227 about 1200 fps. One of these will be the chosen powder.

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The locking block is a safety device. Not intended to control HS in that rifle.

Have you slugged the bore looking for 'choke' and to confirm bore dia? That is what many folks overlook in the .38-55.

OLG

 

 

Really,

So what does control headspace.

 

Red

Buy yourself a starrett 1" micrometer. Much more accurate than a dial caliper..Also forget about tweaking headspace. Just neck size for that gun. If you do that it headspaces off the shoulder.

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Really,

So what does control headspace.

 

Red

Buy yourself a starrett 1" micrometer. Much more accurate than a dial caliper..Also forget about tweaking headspace. Just neck size for that gun. If you do that it headspaces off the shoulder.

 

'Neck sizing and headspacing off the shoulder'

 

Thanks for jarring my brain Nate. I should have remember that but I kept thinking of all the technical stuff I use to do when working with my 6mm BR.

 

 

..........Widder

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Nate, since the 38-55 is a slightly tapered case, I can't see how one could lock up the case pushing against the bolt and get reliable ignition of primers. Wouldn't the impact of the firing pin move the case forward? As far as "fixing" the headspace, I plan to lap the barrel/receiver first. Crown and lap. And do some of the stuff McPherson suggests about the barrel/mag tube/and fore arm. The through bolt could get very interesting.

 

Over the last few months, I have spent some money with Pecos Clyde. It was interesting to find out that McPherson also uses moly bullets.

 

NOTE: A bunch use the term "bore" to point out the hole in the barrel. In reading how to load for the 336, I read "fill the bore" and it will do great. What is the "bore"? Is it a generic term or does it refer to something specific?

 

Lumpy, do you think Bubba has tried to adjust the headspace ^_^ ? Now the chamber is another story..

 

38-55%20chamber2_zpssr5fsowz.jpg

 

38-55Pedersoli.jpg

 

There are a number of Marlin 336 38-55 shooters who have had their barrels "fixed" to provide some leade and this doesn't work. Makes it worse. Documented. McPherson has worked with Manson and developed a chamber reamer for the 38-55 (38-55 McPherson). 'Course, you need to cut some barrel off and make the barrel fit again.

 

Another point to make. I am being told I cannot expect good accuracy using the bench rest free recoil style.

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I measure the OAL case length and trim when it gets longer than stated (2.080). I am using the short brass now and plan to buy some long brass (2.125. Examining the cases, I may get into annealing,

 

Nate, I need something to measure case length and COAL. The calipers are so convenient. I wanted a middle price, get something worth the buck but worked for s couple of years.

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I measure the OAL case length and trim when it gets longer than stated (2.080). I am using the short brass now and plan to buy some long brass (2.125. Examining the cases, I may get into annealing,

 

Nate, I need something to measure case length and COAL. The calipers are so convenient. I wanted a middle price, get something worth the buck but worked for s couple of years.

 

Ok, Some makers claim .0005 accuracy but none I'm used will get you there. I would look at some of the digitals that are easy to read. The less you handle it taking your measurements the more accurate they seem to be. The digitals will zero much easier than the dials so they tend to be more consistent, Though I've never seen a caliber that is tighter than +- .001 at best.

 

As for neck sizing 38-55 there is enough taper to prevent the case from moving forward if you neck size just enough of the case to grip the bullet.

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I have not touched (much) on the " it doesn't have a throat/leade/freebore area". Lissen up H&R shooters.

The outside diameter of the 38-55 case mouth, seated and chambered with no crimp is .392". This area is about .030" long (front edge of case mouth) and then starts the rifling at 6 degrees.

Lets see if I can imagine this. The .379 bullet is sticking out the front of the case and is touching.........nothing. Sounds like the case mouth better be dimensionally consistent.

 

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/38-55%20Winchester.pdf

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See my post #4 again where I speak of this type thing.

 

If that bullet has too much jump from the position of the OGIVE before it engages the rifling, accuracy will suffer and in some instances, it will suffer greatly.

 

Obtaining peak accuracy in certain rifles can be a strange learning adventure.

 

In some BOLT rifles, some bullets are seated in the case mouth with a relatively loose fit. Then when the bolt pushes the round into the chamber, the Ogive portion of the bullet will contact the lands and actually push the bullet into the case mouth to a proper fit where the bullet is 'kissing' the rifling for every round. I never liked this method but there are some who get great accuracy with method.

 

Naturally, you can't do that with a tubular fed lever rifle.

 

 

..........Widder

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Widder, I load mine single file since I shoot it at a bench doing the Buffalo Match thing. I will get you some pictures with the rounds loaded wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out. Makes one think 6.5 Carcano. If I have to eject a live round, I look around for a crowbar.

The best at 100 yards, .379" 255 moly bullet with ___gr of Unique will get me three inches. ____of 4227 will do the same. 5744, 4895, 3031, and others not so well.

Loading them long or short seems not to make a difference. Light crimp or no crimp, no difference.

Another thing. The 336 has a trigger pull of 2#s. Very safe. I can pound the butt with a big rubber mallet, beat a little on the barrel, and it will not trip. No travel, just a nice break. And, yes, it was home made:).

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I was told of a way to check headspace. May not be scientific but makes sense. I took a fired round/case, removed the primer, and then placed the primer slightly inside the primer hole. I inserted the case into the chamber and carefully closed the bolt. If this works, I ain't got a problem with headspace. Surface is flat. So flat, I can pick out a slight deformation of the primer on the edge. Kinda mushroom effect.

I will put the search for a bolt block on the back burner.

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RED CENT,

 

here is another way to check headspace, atleast very unofficial.

 

Put TWO pieces of Electrician Tape on your bolt face and close the action.

 

If you feel a slight compression when the action is fully closed, your head space is probably within SAMMI specs.

 

If you feel nothing, ya got some liberal head space. If your action is difficult to close with those TWO pieces on the bolt face, you might have tight headspace.

 

This is basically a Poor Mans method and in no way a perfect method.

 

 

..........Widder

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