Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi H.K., The 1911 is a semi-automatic not an automatic. Regards, AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Cypress Sun, on 13 Oct 2016 - 4:55 PM, said: I don't think that "folks in here" have a problem with different venue's. What folks do have a problem with it going to a cowboy match that has 1911's in it.......kind of like going to a Blake Shelton concert but Ozzie Osborne is the singer. Just ain't right. Like PWB just said.....it now IS cowboy shooting with 1911's. I wasn't around or didn't pay any attention to WB shooting before it became what it is now under the "current" set of rules. I started shooting CAS in 01. Hadn't even heard of WB then. We didn't start shooting WB at our range until ...I think.....05 or 06 or so. I only shot at my home club and hadn't seen WB at all. Most of us were and are Cowboy shooters. I tried WB since I already had all the guns to shoot it (under current rules) but just couldn't get into it. Our then RM had gone somewhere that did shoot WB and wanted to see if others in the club wanted to try it. So we did. He did from the start see that the numbers for WB as a stand alone shoot wasn't that good. That's when he started combining the 1 day of the monthly shoot to allow WB shooters a day to shoot. BUT, the scenario's were geared to be shot in either venue. Number of targets, distance of targets and shooting sequence's were/are the same for both. The difference is the WB shooters shoot more pistol rounds from 20-30 where the CAS shooters shoot 10. The WB can stoke a SG and usually shoot 6...the CAS shooters can't stoke and also shoot 6. EACH venue is scored separately as is each category of each venue. And as for the safety and rules knowledge of the TO's and MD; there are several members that are WB shooters and are familiar with the rules as an RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi H.K., The 1911 is a semi-automatic not an automatic. Regards, AM On the one hand, Allie, you are correct. But on the other hand, there is a long tradition of referring to self loading pistols as "automatics." For example I have here in my hands a WWII era Colt 1903 hammerless pistol. The kind that was issued to Generals. (It's not a GI, it's a civilian model.) It is chambered for .32 ACP. (Automatic Colt Pistol) The slide is stameped: COLT AUTOMATIC CALIBRE 32 RIMLESS SMOKELESS Don't know why it uses British spelling. And as far as the veneralble 1911 goes, its official name has been changed over the years, such as... Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 Automatic Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911A1 Pistol, Caliber .45, Automatic, M1911A1 Not a semi in site. All meant in fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hi H.K, If I understand the tone of your post, you are worried that I will take offence. Anyone can disagree with me and I will not think badly of them or be offended. It is rudeness I abhor. I've never seen a post of yours that I thought was rude. So, no worries. Regards, AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 A 1911 has its own peculiarities that can make it difficult for the average TO/RO to do his or her job effectively -- that is supervise the safe handling of the pistol during the course of fire. It's nothing like a single action revolver, and many otherwise competent TO/RO's, LOs and ULOs are unfamiliar with them. Not a good mix during a regular match, IMHO. I love Wild Bunch, but as a separate category. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 And that's it. I really don't think that's all that major of a difference. It's more like you are using 5 revolvers instead of 2, and the 97 as it was designed. As as aside, I personally found the 6 shotgun to be irksome. My 97 only holds 5 rounds, which is the way the gun was designed by Mr. Browning. It's one thing to load a gun with fewer rounds than it was designed for, like a 1911, it can be done by all. But to do 6 shotgun rounds in a 97, you either have to be lucky enough to have one of those oddities that holds 6, or you have to modify the gun from its original configuration. I don't like modifying my guns. The '97 was a redesign of the '93. Both as originally designed shot a 2 1/2" shot shell, which means the '97 as originally designed held six 2 1/2" rounds in the magazine. Within a couple years Winchester moved to the 2 5/8" shell and the magazine then held 5. Interestingly they never changed the follower so six of the 2 5/8" shells could be loaded in the magazine. I have bought the shorter 2 1/2 inch shells and it only takes two to be able to load six rounds in the magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 A 1911 has its own peculiarities that can make it difficult for the average TO/RO to do his or her job effectively -- that is supervise the safe handling of the pistol during the course of fire. It's nothing like a single action revolver, and many otherwise competent TO/RO's, LOs and ULOs are unfamiliar with them. Not a good mix during a regular match, IMHO. I love Wild Bunch, but as a separate category. My 2 cents The matches I have attended with mixed WB and CAS, the WB shooters are ROed by fellow WB shooters or experienced WB shooters doing CAS that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 14, 2016 - crude and rude Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 14, 2016 - crude and rude Again, the day they allow WB guns in every SASS match is the day I sell my SASS guns. I will not participate ar such a bastard sport. Link to comment
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The '97 was a redesign of the '93. Both as originally designed shot a 2 1/2" shot shell, which means the '97 as originally designed held six 2 1/2" rounds in the magazine. Within a couple years Winchester moved to the 2 5/8" shell and the magazine then held 5. Interestingly they never changed the follower so six of the 2 5/8" shells could be loaded in the magazine. I have bought the shorter 2 1/2 inch shells and it only takes two to be able to load six rounds in the magazine. See new thread. Don't wanna take this one off topic. http://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=256495 Was the 97 designed for 5 or 6 rounds in the magazine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The WBAS match last year at EoT was excellent. Lots of emphasis on the 1911 with 25 and 30 pistol round stages. Small challenging targets and target distances that made you use your front sight. With matches like that I am convinced that WBAS is coming into it's own. I would hate to see it drug back to the level of cowboy shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 A 1911 has its own peculiarities that can make it difficult for the average TO/RO to do his or her job effectively -- that is supervise the safe handling of the pistol during the course of fire. It's nothing like a single action revolver, and many otherwise competent TO/RO's, LOs and ULOs are unfamiliar with them. Not a good mix during a regular match, IMHO. I love Wild Bunch, but as a separate category. My 2 cents Give me a break!!! Most TO's and RO's probably own 1911's and are quite familiar with them. Many CAS shooters also shoot WB matches where available. Then again, CAS and WB are NOT the only games around town. A number of diciplines in the shooting sports use 1911's or 1911 types. To say that many Cowboy TO's and RO'S are somehow lacking in ability to supervise a WB shooter just isn't so, with the possible exception of an isolated case here or there. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Give me a break!!! Most TO's and RO's probably own 1911's and are quite familiar with them. Many CAS shooters also shoot WB matches where available. Then again, CAS and WB are NOT the only games around town. A number of diciplines in the shooting sports use 1911's or 1911 types. To say that many Cowboy TO's and RO'S are somehow lacking in ability to supervise a WB shooter just isn't so, with the possible exception of an isolated case here or there. RBK Familiarity with the 1911 doesn't equate to automatic knowledge of WBAS rules and range practices. The individual club variations of WB rules may also be a consideration when mixing disciplines in the same match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Give me a break!!! Most TO's and RO's probably own 1911's and are quite familiar with them. Many CAS shooters also shoot WB matches where available. Then again, CAS and WB are NOT the only games around town. A number of diciplines in the shooting sports use 1911's or 1911 types. To say that many Cowboy TO's and RO'S are somehow lacking in ability to supervise a WB shooter just isn't so, with the possible exception of an isolated case here or there. RBK As a Wild Bunch RO instructor and Ambassador, I can, unfortunately, say you're wrong. There are many differences that most non WB shooters do not know. For example, if the 1911 is drawn at the wrong time, what's the proper action? If the 1911 is restaged with the slide down, what is the call? Boggus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 WOWS does it whenever we have shooters who want to. If there is some kind of safety issue, we have never seen it. If spotters can't handle it, hand the flag to someone else. If we have enough people for a separate posse, that is what we do. We are also one of the oldest NCOWS affiliated clubs in WI. We like to shoot. Shooters welcome. Never had anyone, here, tell me that they would rather stay home than shoot. Wild Bunch shooters will have someone to shoot with whenever I am in attendance. That is regularly since our range is like Outlaw Camp: at my place. I see no problem with our WB shooters having their own category at our monthly matches. Everyone is alerted to the fact that there will be WB shooters that day, and given a brief over-view of the differences of WB. We have a couple RO's who know the WB rules and are comfortable running the timer for both CAS and WB shooters. WB shooters are usually few in number and always on the same posse, there has never been a problem with this and I don't foresee any in the future. There is no reason why CAS and WB shooters can not play safely together. I do not understand all the negativity about WB, we need to all stand together and support one another; or our game(s) and gun ownership will become a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 As a Wild Bunch RO instructor and Ambassador, I can, unfortunately, say you're wrong. There are many differences that most non WB shooters do not know. For example, if the 1911 is drawn at the wrong time, what's the proper action? If the 1911 is restaged with the slide down, what is the call? Boggus This is very true. I have only shot wild bunch a few times, but there are quite a few different rules. I think the first time I shot it, I had to have the TO practically walk me through each and every detail of the stage while on the clock. I am sure he was annoyed, but a good sport about it. I have never had a SDQ shooting cowboy, but have had three shooting wild bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I have been spanked for stating my opinion using proper english terms. It is not SASS and should not ever be included in a SASS match. If you wish to call it something else do so but don't include it in a SASS rules apply match. The WBAS match last year at EoT was excellent. Lots of emphasis on the 1911 with 25 and 30 pistol round stages. Small challenging targets and target distances that made you use your front sight. With matches like that I am convinced that WBAS is coming into it's own. I would hate to see it drug back to the level of cowboy shooting. I would be thrilled to see WB arise to lofty goals and leave us poor SASS shooters alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Plus One to Noz. If you want to play with your 1911s, go down to Bay 7 and play by yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 I have been spanked for stating my opinion using proper english terms. I would be thrilled to see WB arise to lofty goals and leave us poor SASS shooters alone. Its one thing to say you don't like something. Its another to be rude about it. When you belittle yourself by using what some could construe as profanity, its certainly not proper English. And it is English, not english...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Well, I do own a 1911 but have shot it only a couple of times. I have watched friends shoot a Wild Bunch side match at the TN State match. I don't know the Wild bunch rules. I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. So............although I have been shooting CAS for 14 years, have both RO1 & RO2 and keep up with rule changes both in the rulebooks & clarifications by PaleWolf, I do not want to mix CAS & WB. Nothing against WB just keep them separate. I wouldn't mind trying WB on a different day than CAS match with introduction & instruction from a WB RO. Hasta Luego, Keystone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 15, 2016 - Name calling! Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, October 15, 2016 - Name calling! Put those Bottom Feeders in a Cowboy match ,,,,,,,,,,, and I won't be back ever !!! And I will tell all my Friends and they won't go either .... the 1911 has it's place ,,,, just not a cowboy match ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 PLEASE STOP THE RUDE NAME CALLING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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