wild bunch guns at regular match?

[Duncan Disorderly]

Any issues with allowing wild bunch guns at regular sass match?

Basically just the 1911 in place of the two SA revolvers, right?

[Major Crimes]

Lights blue touch paper and stands back

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

We did that for a few shoots. Never had an issue

Rafe

[Captain Bill Burt]

Do you mean other than the fact that they're not legal for SASS matches? You know, because they're semi-auto guns and SASS requires single action revolvers, hence the SA in SASS.

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

We just had a separate category! No stoked shotgun and ground the pistol if it's not the last gun shot.

Rafe

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

Absolutely not! Wild Bunch is a "Side Match" not a replacement for a main match.

 

If you are asking me.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Plum Creek Shooting Society has a category for that, though I've never had anyone on my posse to do it. (they also have Cody-Dixon categories, GAF categories with a revolver reload, Working Cowboy with only one pistol and rifle, no shotgun).

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

We've allowed it, but announce ahead of time so you can opt out of a posse with WB shooters on it.

 

It's also scored separately

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

Wild Bunch Action Shooting uses the catchphrase "it's not cowboy action with a 1911". If you treat Wild Bunch as a cowboy action category you are doing both games a disservice.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

As a Wild Bunch shooter, I don't recommend mixing them. Most TOs at a cowboy match don't know the safety rules for WB or how to clear the pistol on line, or how to safely assist the shooter if there is a problem. Want to shoot Wild Bunch, get to a WB match.

[Blackey Cole]

If you look at the monthly match schedule for the picacho posse they run both at the same time and I have tried shooting both years ago and it felt like I was constantly changing rigs and loading guns. I have shot a monthly with them in a couple of years so I'm not sure how they are handling it now but contact the match direct fast hammer.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I have attended some matches where regular CAS guns and WIld Bunch guns were run concurrently. The competitors were scored separately. But this requires having ROs who are comfortable with the WIld Bunch procedures, which are not the same as regular CAS procedures. Other than that, No, it is not allowed.

[Charlie Whiskers]

Up here in the tropical zone of Montana we have 1 shoot per month (1st Saturday WB/CAS...1st Sunday is CAS only)that's a combined WB and CAS shoot. Our RM and past RM are very up on WB rules and procedures. They both shoot WB on occasion and us CAS shooters shoot on the same posse or posse's only following CAS rules. There's a table to ground the 1911 on when finished. WB SG is stoked with 6 rounds. The WB shooters follow WB rules and the CAS shooters follow CAS rules. Biggest pain in the posterior is picking up all the 45acp brass plus rifle brass. CAS shooters get to shoot 6 SG too and are scored separately from WB shooters.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

WE run them together all the time. Ground the pistols when dry. Show clear before going to the UT. TO's have no problem keeping them safe. No it's not Cowboy, and it's not really WB either, but who really cares, or what does it hurt. The club can use the money and participation, and no one really cares if it's done. Jeez!! Its just a monthly. No need of getting ruffled up about it. The shooter is having fun. Doesn't distract from the serious shooters, and doesn't take up any more time, and they are not competing against any other category. Most shooters only do it occasionally, shooting regular Cowboy most of the time. Just a change of pace.

 

RBK

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Couldn't have said it better Boggus!!!

[Houston CAS]

We do it all the time.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Locally its a side match before and at another local place both at the same time, with it as a class. I good with it.

[Noz]

Announce prior to the match if you are going to have 1911s allowed in the main match.

 

If I see that I will not attend the match. It's against the rules and is wrong. WB is a parasite group that cannot exist without CAS.

 

All SASS rules apply? Give me a break.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

There is a club near me that at every match they allow you to use any pistol, semi-auto or revolver, as long as it was made before 1918. Same with rifles. If you shoot anything other than SASS standard guns, you are scored separately. You see a lot of interesting old stuff there and it is a lot of fun. Nobody has a problem with it, and everyone knows that that is how this particular club does it.

 

This was how they ran "Wild Bunch" matches before SASS created the official rules. Don't remember what they call it now.

[Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517]

As a Wild Bunch shooter, I don't recommend mixing them. Most TOs at a cowboy match don't know the safety rules for WB or how to clear the pistol on line, or how to safely assist the shooter if there is a problem. Want to shoot Wild Bunch, get to a WB match.

 

+1

[J. Frank Norfleet]

I do this at one monthly and I use it as a practice, so my score is not counted. It is a small club, 15 +/- shooters. Sometimes I will shoot 10 pistol and sometimes 20, depending on the stage and what I need to practice. If I double up and shoot the rifle targets with my pistol, I tell everyone before I start. Rarely do I stoke the shotgun. I see it as an opportunity to practice loading from the belt under time. I also don't worry about pistol brass. The brass pickers get what they can quickly and I will go back after the match and get the rest.

It really depends on the club and the match. I can think of a number of situations where this wouldn't work and I don't think it would be appropriate anywhere other than a small monthly match.

JFN

[Marty Mudd]

WOWS does it whenever we have shooters who want to. If there is some kind of safety issue, we have never seen it. If spotters can't handle it, hand the flag to someone else.

If we have enough people for a separate posse, that is what we do.

We are also one of the oldest NCOWS affiliated clubs in WI.

We like to shoot. Shooters welcome. Never had anyone, here, tell me that they would rather stay home than shoot.

Wild Bunch shooters will have someone to shoot with whenever I am in attendance. That is regularly since our range is like Outlaw Camp: at my place.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Announce prior to the match if you are going to have 1911s allowed in the main match.

 

If I see that I will not attend the match. It's against the rules and is wrong. WB is a parasite group that cannot exist without CAS.

 

All SASS rules apply? Give me a break.

I wouldn't exactly call us a parasite group.....

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

SASS = Single Action Shooting Society. CAS = Cowboy Action Shooting. Sorry, but a 1911 doesn't fit in either of those descriptions.

I realize full well that some Match Directors for "Local" matches play fast and loose with the rules, but the header for the club almost always says "All SASS Rules Apply" Kinda Oxy Moron to throw 1911s in the mix. Totally against SASS rules for CAS.

[Rye Miles #13621]

We allow it at our Firelands Wednesday shoot but then again we don't have any categories on Wednesdays! At our regular monthly match absolutely not!

[Nate Leadspoon]

The venerable Judge Roy Bean club cowboy shooting club in El Paso, which is not an official SASS club, allows WB to be shot as a separate category at monthly matches. Guns grounded when dry, cleared at end of stage, scored separately from CAS-style shooters. Most shooters shoot two categories at the monthlies there, so it works out pretty well.

 

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I don't see any reason to get into a fight over this BUT the 1911 IS a SINGLE action handgun. There were also plenty of cowboys wearing them after they came home from WWI. The1911's have been around a lot longer than the Rugers and the Uberti clones. I certainly prefer to have WBAS and CAS as separate matches but letting those who want to shoot their WBAS guns at a CAS match is better than not shooting them at all. XXXXXX I think if you had been to EOT the last few years before he passed away The GENERAL only shot the WBAS match. The Judge also states that he doesn't want to shoot CAS either if he can shoot WBAS.

[Dragon Hill Dave #59561]

Any issues with allowing wild bunch guns at regular sass match?

 

Basically just the 1911 in place of the two SA revolvers, right?

We do this at Plum Creek. We call it "Wild Agarita." The only issue we have with folks shooting the 1911 (they use the 1911 for the pistol sequences) is having TO's who are trained in Wild Bunch and know the safety procedures (no rounds in chamber at start, but magazine can be inserted; no re-holstering but grounding with action open, clearing the 1911 on the line after the stage has been shot.) As long as you have someone who can deal with the 1911 at a Cowboy match, we think it is ok.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

All depends upon the cowboys in attendance at the match. Some folks have REALLY been disgusted by several issues, including the rules differences, the safety issues, the drill for clearing of handguns, the "new fangled" mechanisms in the 1911 or Model 12 that they don't feel comfortable helping a shooter in case of malfunctions, and a long list of others.

 

IF you can get more cowboys to approve than disapprove, and you get enough folks trained to be range officers for WB, it can work pretty well, except that you won't be training Wild Bunch shooters to be very competitive at official matches just by shooting in cowboy matches.

 

So, if the club is progressive in their thought patterns and up to date on the rules and safety, it can work.

 

 

 

Basically just the 1911 in place of the two SA revolvers, right?

 

If that is the general mind set going in, your club is probably not in a frame of mind to accept it very well.

 

 

Otherwise, save WB gunning for WB matches.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Charlie Whiskers]

Rude post hidden.

 

It's listed on our schedule as a WB/CAS combined shoot on that Saturday. We shoot the 1st weekend (Sat. and Sun.) and 4th Saturday of each month April - October. So there's not a lot of shooting dates to satisfy both venues if shot separately since April weather is iffy at best. We have several shooters that like BOTH venues and will shoot WB on that Saturday and CAS on that Sunday. I've shot WB a couple of times but just can't get into it. I didn't start shooting CAS to shoot 1911's. But having said that, a lot of folks like shooting a variety of guns and I'm fine with that since our shooter base / population is less for the whole State than most major cities in other States. We don't want to turn shooters away by NOT allowing WB as long as it's run with all the rules being understood and safety rules followed.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Any issues with allowing wild bunch guns at regular sass match?

 

Basically just the 1911 in place of the two SA revolvers, right?

 

IMO:

If you're allowing anything other than SASS-legal firearms to shoot the stages at a monthly match, it's NOT A "regular sass match".

 

As the WBAS folks are fond of saying, "Wild Bunch is NOT Cowboy Action Shooting with a 1911."...which is what is being proposed by the OP

(and apparently is current practice at some clubs).

 

We can go out to the range (or the rock pit) and plink with our SAs, DAs, 1911s, Hi-Powers, bolt & black rifles, SxS, pump, lever, and Auto-5 shotguns anytime we feel like it (without having be dressed "historically" for any particular time period)...but I'm not going to pretend it's a "SASS match" while doing so.

 

I personally won't impose on the CAShooters' monthly match to accommodate my plinking/practice sessions, either.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

At one club I shoot, there is a mix and match shoot. The rules are you can use a 1911 if you want, you can stoke shotguns if you want. If you stoke the shotguns, you get a 10 second penalty and if you engage rifle targets with a pistol then you get a 10 second bonus. It sort of equalizes the rules, but also allows you to shoot some stuff you might not otherwise. I have shot it with a 1911 for my rifle, still shot two colts, and then run my 1887 stoked. My bonus and penalty are negated. I have seen a guy run it Josey Wales, with four pistols and a stoked shotgun, so again bonus and penalty negate. It's not all the time, but it is really fun. I sometimes think people forget that this is a game that is all about fun and entertainment so if it works for your club and your shooters are are happy then you are doing it right no matter what the naysayers think.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

 

"no matter what the naysayers think"

 

Because someone disagrees with a point does not make them wrong. It should make you realize there are different points of view and different conclusions out there.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

Because someone disagrees with a point does not make them wrong. It should make you realize there are different points of view and different conclusions out there.

That's exactly my point. A quick look at the responses and you'll see quite a few no way, it's stupid, it's not cowboy, etc without taking into consideration the club's and member's point of view. What works for one club may not work for another, and at the end of the day that's what matters. So I do agree with you that there are different points of view. I shoot occasionally at five different clubs and at another club there's no way a 1911 would be allowed. Those customers would not allow or or not want to come back. And that's ok too. Like I said before, this is just a game and entertainment, so you are doing it "right" only if you are doing what the customers want.

[LostVaquero]

A1911 might not be cowboy if you stick to before 1900 but a broomhandle sure is and even a luger patented 1898. Think it would be a lot of fun to shoot some of the oldies in cas match