.38 Special loads - 105 TCFP or 125 RNFP

[Chief Rick]

Do you find one shape/weight works better out of a '73 than the other or does it boil down to shooter's (loader's) preference?

[Krazy Kajun]

I run a 125 truncated cone bullet in my 73 and a 105 truncated cone in my pistols but the 105 bullet runs smooth in my 73. I also have some 158 RNFP knockdown loads the also run just fine through my 73.

 

Kajun

[Waimea]

I have used 110, 120, 122 and 157 and they all work great.

 

I have NEVER changed the seating die.

 

Waimea

[Chief Rick]

I should have added:

 

I've been running 105 TCFPs for several years. Was wondering if the 125 RNFP would allow for a slightly longer OAL.

 

Just noticed the 125 TCFP...

[Charlie Whiskers]

Chief Rick, on 10 Oct 2016 - 8:08 PM, said:

I should have added:

 

I've been running 105 TCFPs for several years. Was wondering if the 125 RNFP would allow for a slightly longer OAL.

 

Just noticed the 125 TCFP...

 

The 125 RNFP is a tad shorter than the 125 TCFP. The difference "can" allow the bullet in the mag tube to come out far enough to not let the lifting block raise. The 125 TCFP is identical to the 158 RNFP in length. You can seat and crimp using the same setting for either.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I run nothing but Truncated Cone bullets in my .38 Rifles. I like 105s and 125s. Been so long since I've seen knock-down targets I no longer worry about heavy bullets just-in-case. However, when you get into the really heavy Truncated Cone bullets, the meplat becomes wide enough to cause jams.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

I would say shooters preference.. I say this because there's no high energy requirement for SASS ammo, just velocity limits, (400 FPS minimum), and must achieve a very low power factor. (60). If using the same ammo in the rifle as in the pistols, then the longer profile bullet will most probably feed better in the rifle.

 

Personally, I like the 125 gr. bullets best for the pistols, and actually prefer 158's for the Marlin rifle. I normally shoot TC bullets, but RNFP bullets feed equally well.

 

Using what feeds in the rifle well is what counts. The pistols don't care. They will shoot anything you put in them.

 

TBK

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

OAL is important they tell me. TC seems to work good in both.

[Peddler Parsons SASS # 31281]

105 in my pistols, 122 and 158's in my rifle

[Billy the Avenger]

I have tested 105 and 125 tc

I like the 100 rnfp

But that's just me

 

Billy the Avenger

[Charlie Whiskers]

I ordered some bullets from Cheycast. I ordered 44-40 .428's but when I did they asked if I shot any other caliber. I told him 38's. He sent me 55 of his coated 125 TCFP's and 55 105 TCFP's. I loaded up the 105's but haven't tried them yet. I'm thinking since this weekend is our local club's last weekend of the year, it might be a good time to test them out. What's interesting is each one is the same OAL as a 158 RNFP, so each should run fine through my 73's should I decide to go with a 105. I'm already shooting TCFP125's.

[Kirk James]

We shoot 96 in the pistols, 105 in the rifles and 125 for knockdown. Some knockdowns call for 158 but rare. Thanks Lacey and Clyde from BAM who keep us going.

[Noz]

I've been shooting CAS for going on 14 years and have never encountered a pistol or rifle knockdown. I shoot all black powder and I choose bullets by lube capacity and shape,TC, rather than weight.

[C.S. Brady, SASS #63699]

NOZ, come shoot with us in Fort Smith this weekend and you will most likely have some knock downs....if we know you are coming we will add them just for you. :-)

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

All in on the TC designs - just feed better in toggle rifles. Faster taper away from the rifling at the throat, too. 125's seem a great compromise for length versus light weight. You DEFINITELY have more nose length in the same bullet weight to work with in a TC design.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Noz]

I've been shooting CAS for going on 14 years and have never encountered a pistol or rifle knockdown. I shoot all black powder and I choose bullets by lube capacity and shape,TC, rather than weight.

OK, I need to clarify. I am seeing KDs for pistol and rifle like unto shotgun KDs. I do not include plate racks or tombstone racks in MY answer above. I shoot a case full of black in my 38 specials for the rifle and 24 grs of black in my ROAs.

I suppose if you are shooting a really watered down load that a plate rack might need a heavier bullet.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I've tried both 125 and 105s in my pistols and didn't notice enough difference to care. You lose a little bullet weight and have to up the powder charge to compensate.

 

The difference I did notice was in POI. For me it wasn't worth getting used to a new sight picture just to get a slight reduction in recoil.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Over the last year I have been phasing into the coated bullets in smokeless (not sure how they will work with black just yet). In the last couple of weeks I have run numerous test with coated 105, 125, 135, and 147s. I have played some with seating depth so I can be confident in leaving seater at one setting no matter what the choice of bullet (minimum being 1.465"). I even searched for a common charge of powder (Clays) for even more convenience. For years past I have favored RNFP but have been drifting into more and more use of TC bullets. My test was to find pleasant recoil with 105s for myself as a duelists and for Sassy being new to shooting CAS. I wanted to meet goals of accuracy, velocity in 620-720 range (revolver), reasonable standard deviation, and definitely, good burn. As one would imagine as weight of bullet moved up, so did pressure creating better burn, more case contact, etc.....and lower SD (especially seen with 135 & 147s).. 147 not being the more common TC shape (I will call it a TC with long nose) and having different ogive, seated where crimp rolled over the ogive if seater left at 105 setting. This left an edge that one can easily feel with finger, and something I thought might be less smooth of feed in 73, and I thought possibly totally different in performance than if seated out longer where i crimped "biting" more into bullet (1.505" vs 1.656"). I was wrong either feeds fine, would produce single digit SD, and were accurate in rifle or revolver. 147 of course POI was slightly higher than 105 and with tad more lift/recoil, 135 is considered a RN with slight flat point and would produce single digit SD, accuracy in revolver and rifle, and feeds so nicely in 73. 135 was seated as per 105 setting putting a fairly heavy crimp biting into bullet yielding a OAL same as 105 of 1.465" (crimp is in crimp groove of 105). Actually I find all run smooth in 73 although I expect to use one of heavier bullets for rifle and with different color so I can chamber gauge a certain color and know it will be for rifle and good for revolver knockdowns if needed.

 

So far my results leave me with a common seating depth and powder charge which is very handy. Also a color designation for rifle and pistol (pistol being one color and anything heavier than 105 is different color and shape of bullet would tell me whether 125 TC, 135 RNFP, or 147. Velocities will generally run in 650+- range. I now need to decide which of the heavy shapes/weights I want to load (125, 135, 147). There is something about the 147s that really impress me, yet differently, so do the 135s.....decisions, decisions.

 

To OP: after all this rambling, my suggestion would be to know most all designs offered in CAS market work fine although length (my advice is no shorter than 1.45") can be critical and a smooth crimp might be advantage. Find the bullet design you like, supplier you like, and price that fits both. You can find lots of loading help with a few PMs here.

Good luck.

bb

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

I use 125gr to 130gr in both rifle and pistols. I load to a decent power and don't worry about knockdowns not going down. Don't really have a prefernce as to TC's or RNFP, they both work fine.

 

Blackfoot

[Cassalong Hopidy]

I have used 110, 120, 122 and 157 and they all work great.

 

I have NEVER changed the seating die.

 

Waimea

+1 I have run 105, 110. 120, 122, 125 and 158--they all ran and loaded great. Just a question of how much oommph you want.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

And I see pistol and rifle knock downs every once in a while. Certainly not every match, but a few times a year.

 

Many times the 105's can work on them, but not always, so I keep a few heavier bullets in my shooting box, just in case.