Bullet diameter for .45 Colt

[Frank Moon]

Hi! I'm totally new to SASS, a recently acquired 74 Sharps and have found it turning my interests from the Longhunters, so I'm very familiar with BP shooting. I also shoot allot of modern and make it a point to reload everything I shoot. Everything except high power rifles, I cast my own bullets for. I just purchased a Uberti Cimarron Frontier in .45 Colt, the question I have is; are the bullets .452 in the replicas, or are they .454? I currently cast 200gr RNFP .452 for my 1911, or will I need to find a mold and sizer for .454?

 

Frank

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

GTG with .452 in todays .45 Colt loads.

If that Sharps is .45 cal. You want .458/.459 dia.

OLG

[Hoss]

.452

 

Check out Ringers Bullets, if you decide not to cast your own. He uses SPG lube, so good for smokeless or BP. He is a great guy to deal with.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

That .452 diameter bullet in 200 grain RNFP will be a very nice slug to load for cowboy shooting, too.

Good luck, GJ

[Frank Moon]

With the Sharps I've been using 405 gr .457 dia RNFP with 70 grains FFG and and have been very impressed with it's accuracy.

[Goatneck Clem]

I shoot original Colt's. 1st & 2nd Generation Most all Colts have over size bores so I shoot .454 diameter size lead bullet. .454 size bullet works in other makes of Single Action pistols. I also shot a .45 cal Rifle in Wild Bunch and I have converted them to shoot the .45 ACP pistol case. They will group 1 1/2 inches at 50yds. I use a .454 sized bullet in all the rifles we shoot in WB & CAS that size bullet works the best. Reason being it eliminates nearly all the blow back and improves accuracy & performance

 

Goatneck.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

I shoot 200gr RNFP, sized .452 in both .45 Colt and .45 ACP. The .45 Colt is used in a replica '66.

 

Blackfoot

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

OK, here is the long story. When the 45 Colt was first invented in 1873 the groove diameter was between .454 and .455. The Single Action Army continued to be produced with .454 grooves up until the end of 1st Gen production in 1940. When Colt began making the SAA again in 1956 groove diameter for 45 Colt was reduced to .451 -.452 and has stayed that dimension ever since. Incidentally, .451 has always been the groove diameter for 45 ACP.

 

However......................you may find a 45 Colt revolver, 2nd Gen Colts can be this way, with oversized chamber throats. In this case, a soft lead .454 bullet may deliver better accuracy. Personally, I shoot .452 bullets in my 2nd Gen Colts.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

Unless, you have a tight chambered Uberti. My Cimarron Artillary model's barrel slugs at .450", with chamber throats at .4505".

Nice and tight. The piece likes it's diet at .450".

[Frank Moon]

Thanks all. I see everyone thus far has mentioned smokeless powder. I was thinking about using FFG or maybe Triple Seven, is there any reason why I shouldn't? I works really well in the .45-70. I understand the issues with rear obturation and fouling with rifles, but cleaning an SAA can't be anymore of a hassle than cleaning any other black powder revolver. If my reasoning is wrong please gobsmack me before I screw the pistol up.

[Griff]

Thanks all. I see everyone thus far has mentioned smokeless powder. I was thinking about using FFG or maybe Triple Seven, is there any reason why I shouldn't? I works really well in the .45-70. I understand the issues with rear obturation and fouling with rifles, but cleaning an SAA can't be anymore of a hassle than cleaning any other black powder revolver. If my reasoning is wrong please gobsmack me before I screw the pistol up.

I shoot BP 45 Colt all the time in my 3rd Gen Colts. Cleans up easily, and tons of fun. The gun came out long before smokeless, and probably does a better job of dealing with the fouling than other period pieces... Hence part of its longevity!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

BP will be fine in your Uberti SAA clone, or the common muzzleloading substitutes (except for Pyrodex, which is really corrosive, and substitutes which include any amount of smokeless powder content (like Blackhorn 209)). BP compatible lube is recommended with real BP propellant.

 

It's not common for a newcomer to SASS to immediately think of loading smokey! Congratulations!

 

You would add a little complication when you start out, because you will be taming the BP demons as well as learning the SASS rules, practices, conduct and etiquette. So most folks start with smokeless, get to a "smooth sailing" point, and then think about making the switch. We have special categories for smokey shooters. But you can always feel free to shoot BP in any of the other categories, too.

 

Here's a primer on black powder in SASS....

http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html

If you know all this already, another big congratulations!

 

Welcome to the fire!

 

Good luck, GJ

[Frank Moon]

Thanks, I'm a long time longhunter, after flinters and percussion, this is awesome. I was a bit of a rogue because I also played with Walkers and other revolvers, which were out of period for us, but I've always found the 1860 a thing of beauty. Yes, I am intimidated with learning SASS rules, practices, conduct and etiquette. Do they allow people to go to shoots and observe? I'm also not up on BP substitutes, I live between knob Creek and KY Gun Company, so BP is always available, if I don't need to use substitutes, why bother. Eventually though I'll need a rifle and I'm concerned about BP fouling and lever actions, perhaps a .44-40,,,,,,,,,,,, but more research is needed.

[The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432]

Both my 3rd generation Colts have .454 throats so for accuracy I use .455 diameter using RCBS moulds.

 

At CAS distances .452 works fine.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Thanks, I'm a long time longhunter, after flinters and percussion, this is awesome. I was a bit of a rogue because I also played with Walkers and other revolvers, which were out of period for us, but I've always found the 1860 a thing of beauty. Yes, I am intimidated with learning SASS rules, practices, conduct and etiquette. Do they allow people to go to shoots and observe? I'm also not up on BP substitutes, I live between knob Creek and KY Gun Company, so BP is always available, if I don't need to use substitutes, why bother. Eventually though I'll need a rifle and I'm concerned about BP fouling and lever actions, perhaps a .44-40,,,,,,,,,,,, but more research is needed.

Yep, you already know the secret. In a black powder rifle, the bottleneck, thin-walled cases are KING!

 

I have sworn off using subs when I shoot a "frontier cartridge" gun, also. Real Black for me. Sounds right, smells right, crunches right.

 

 

 

Do they allow people to go to shoots and observe?

Do WE allow it? Only if you are willing to be handed a set of guns and told - here, go shoot these!

 

Absolutely, spectators are welcome. Folks who help shag some brass - even more so.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Griff]

Yes, I am intimidated with learning SASS rules, practices, conduct and etiquette...

Don't be. They're more in tune with uncommon good sense than the questions here on the Wire would lead you to believe.

perhaps a .44-40,,,,,,,,,,,, but NO more research is needed.

Fixed that for ya... unless you're referring to choices between that and .32-20 or .38-40. If there'd been .38-40 replica rifles around when I started... that would be my caliber of choice. Big enough to be legal in both Classic Cowboy and Wild Bunch, and small enough to be... well... just is! And as GJ said, BP is legal in ALL categories.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Don't be. They're more in tune with uncommon good sense than the questions here on the Wire would lead you to believe.

 

Ain't that the truth!!!!

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

The correct answer is. . . Slug your barrel and mike the slug. Only then will you KNOW the correct diameter bullet for your gun. Lyman advises the use of bore size or one thousandth over bore for best accuracy.

 

DD-MDA

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The correct answer is. . . Slug your barrel and mike the slug. Only then will you KNOW the correct diameter bullet for your gun. Lyman advises the use of bore size or one thousandth over bore for best accuracy.

 

DD-MDA

 

That would be the groove size (diameter of the largest part of the slug used to measure the barrel dimensions), not the bore size (the smallest part of the slug after driving it through the barrel), also called the land diameter or land size, especially in Europe. In case the OP knows the difference (which by now I am convinced he does).

 

But any more, newly manufactured Uberti revolvers, Pietta revolvers, and Ruger revolvers will be manufactured close-enough to 0.452" groove diameter to shoot a bullet sized 0.452" very well, especially for SASS target distances. Even more likely to shoot accurately if using a soft alloy slug at about 8 Brinnell hardness or softer.

 

For most practical purposes, for SASS shooting from revolvers, and for reasonably soft bullets, 0.452" is a good starting point for your bullet diameter. To get the utmost in accuracy and clean cases and complete combustion, a 0.454" bullet is sometimes worth it. And sometimes, it's chasing a wild goose. And sometimes, it can even result in tight chambering of cartridges and a tight fit passing through smallish cylinder throats. So, it just depends. But usually .452 is "good to go."

 

Good luck, GJ

[Blackey Cole]

For modern 45 colts .452 is good the .454 is for the old original 45 colts.

[Frank Moon]

JG is right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, sluging would tell me for sure. I'm 58 years old acting like an 8 year old waiting for Christmas morning. I ordered my first 1873 from Cimarron and am chomping at the bit. I've never shot, let alone own a SAA before. I was hoping to have the rounds ready for its arrival. I guess I could just buy some cowboy action loads to see me through though,,,,,,,,,,. Besides, this may take awhile. I figure I have some modern safe queens and smolepoles to finance this.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

 

I understand the issues with rear obturation and fouling with rifles, but cleaning an SAA can't be anymore of a hassle than cleaning any other black powder revolver.

Howdy Again

 

Actually, cleaning a cartridge revolver fired with Black Powder is easier than cleaning a C&B revolver. The chambers are bored straight through, so you just clean them with a regular bore brush and your favorite water based BP solvent. There are no nipples to deal with and no hidden nooks and crannies like there are in a C&B chamber. No Q-tips are necessary, just scrub out the chambers with a bore brush. And I always leave a light coating of Ballistol in the chambers. Unlike a C&B, before you shoot a cartridge revolver with Black Powder cartridges, you don't have to fire any caps to burn out any oil in the chambers. Just pop in your cartridges and fire.

 

I always recommend not making up 20 years worth of ammo for a new gun, particularly if you have not gotten your hands on it yet. If you want to make up some ammo in advance, .452 bullets will probably be fine, but don't make up more than a few boxes just in case you need a different bullet.

 

Now, from my school marm alter ego; In CAS we usually reserve the term 1873 for the Model 1873 Winchester rifle. If you say 1873 a lot of folks in CAS will assume you are talking about a rifle. And a little bit more picky: Single Action Army is a registered trademark of the Colt company. By inference, so is SAA. Nobody but Colt stamps the name Single Action Army on anything, they know Colt will sue the pants off of them. I like to say 'Colt type lockwork' or SAA replica.