Johnny Dollar Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Hey all! I just had a chance to test my new (to me) evil Roy pistols. Very nice and handles great. Problem is they are so light in getting maybe 2 to fire out of 5. Winchester primers that I've never had a problem with. I'm guessing get heavier springs to put in? To bad.... Thanks! -JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Try tightening the main spring. Also, try Federal primers if you can find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Are these leaf/flat hammer spring or coil? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Make sure your primers are seated to full depth - even if below flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Not Evil Roy revolvers, but when I bought my Ruger NM Bisley's from Longhunter, I had almost identical issues. They had tuned with 15lb springs. Called LH and they sent a new set of hammer springs, 17lb, no problems since except one round that did not fire in my rifle first. Had about 30 rounds that would not fire in rifle but all fired in pistols except that one. All Winchester LP primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 LT, what rifle? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 The ER pistols "should" set off Winchesters. Are you sure that it is light strikes and not throw-by? (looking at the primers will tell you that). At one time the ER's had a washer under the mainspring. If yours does, remove the washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 LT, what rifle? OLG Uberti 1873 Carbine, .45 Colt, Gen 4 short stroke. I have PGW XL firing pin on the way, 0.015" longer. Hopefully this cures it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Turn the hammer spring tension screw 1/4 turn inward. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 The ER pistols "should" set off Winchesters. Are you sure that it is light strikes and not throw-by? (looking at the primers will tell you that). At one time the ER's had a washer under the mainspring. If yours does, remove the washer. OLG, it's the normal looking leaf spring. Also no washer. I'm not sure what you mean by throw-by. I will say my description of light primer strike may not be the best. The primers are being hit... just not enough to set them off all the time. But there is a big dent. I have had no problems with my other Ubertis or Rugers with these primers. I am setting them all the way in the pocket too. I just took the springs out and see they are curved a lot. Just to see what would happen I pressed them down till they were not as curved to give them more strength. It did increase the hammer but I've not shot it since. I'll go out again. What I'm not sure of is did I weaken the spring by doing that? I may just order new ones anyway. I don't want to start using special primers to off set weak springs. Plus I have a huge amount of Winchester primers. Thanks for all the tips!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Johnny, another thought. Since you got those used, it's hard to know the history or age. But some years back , some of the Model P hammers had the firing pin hole drilled too deep by Uberti. So if you did a whole lot of shooting or dry firing with snap caps, over time the firing pin retainer pin could bend and allow the firing pin to sink a tiny bit further into the hole in the hammer, resulting in some light strikes. I know of one case of that happening on an ER pistol. Compare the firing pin protrusion through the recoil shield compared to your other Ubertis. Small chance, but easy to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Since you took some bend out of the spring, Do you live where you can try a few primers in EMPTY cases and not have the neighbors calling the cops? I have a house with basement. I load a few empty cases one at a time with primers only and touch them off in my storeroom. Of course I warn the "boss" 1st. You will most likely have to pull the cylinder out to unload it because it will set the primers back. Up side is you don't have to go to the range to see if it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 Abilene, good thing to check. I'll take a look. Although these pistols look practically new. No wear at all and only one has a hint of a turn ring. Charlie, excellent thought! I can certainly do that in my garage.... and I'm several hundred feet from my nearest neighbor so no worries there. And I will also let the boss know before hand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Turn the hammer spring tension screw 1/4 turn inward. OLG Tension screw is maxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 If your guns are not setting off primers now, when cooler weather gets here there will be more primers failing to ignite. If your guns are tuned to just set off Federal primers, there will be a day when they do not set off all the primers, springs get weak and guns get dirty. I'm a believer that guns should be tuned to set off a variety of primers not just one brand. After the next primer shortage, might be in November, shooters will buy up whatever brands available, guns need to be tuned accordingly. There is very little advantage to having hammer springs at 15 pounds vs. 17 pounds, when the timer goes off who remembers how hard it was to pull back a hammer or lever a rifle 10 times. One will remember the miss, procedural, shotgun shell fumble or primer failing to ignite. Having guns tuned that are primer specific will not save that much time on a stage. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Hey all! I just had a chance to test my new (to me) evil Roy pistols. Very nice and handles great. Problem is they are so light in getting maybe 2 to fire out of 5. Winchester primers that I've never had a problem with. I'm guessing get heavier springs to put in? To bad.... Thanks! -JD Take the leather washer out from under the mainspring. Replace with a stainless lock washer of appropriate size. The leather can dry out and shrink over time, reducing the tension the mainspring can hold. A pard at our range had the same problem once, and fixed the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 Take the leather washer out from under the mainspring. Replace with a stainless lock washer of appropriate size. The leather can dry out and shrink over time, reducing the tension the mainspring can hold. A pard at our range had the same problem once, and fixed the same way. Hi Griff, Someone mentioned about a washer above. No washer at all. The spring is tight against the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Tension screw is maxed. What about the hold down screw? Back the tension screw off and make sure the hold down screw is 'tite'. Then retighten the tension screw. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Hi Griff, Someone mentioned about a washer above. No washer at all. The spring is tight against the frame. So it's a flat spring then. Take the spring out. Put the spring(arch-up)on a hard table and push down some to flatten-out just a small amount. Do both springs the same. Reinstall and test fire. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 JD: A friend of mine had the same problem with his Evil Roy set of pistols. When we took them a part the main spring in both guns had been ground down to much. So we replaced the main springs with reduced springs from VTI gun parts. He now does not have any issues with light primer strikes. With that being said. He did buy these guns second hand so we don't know who ground down the springs so much. Cheatin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted September 25, 2016 Author Share Posted September 25, 2016 If your guns are not setting off primers now, when cooler weather gets here there will be more primers failing to ignite. If your guns are tuned to just set off Federal primers, there will be a day when they do not set off all the primers, springs get weak and guns get dirty. I'm a believer that guns should be tuned to set off a variety of primers not just one brand. After the next primer shortage, might be in November, shooters will buy up whatever brands available, guns need to be tuned accordingly. There is very little advantage to having hammer springs at 15 pounds vs. 17 pounds, when the timer goes off who remembers how hard it was to pull back a hammer or lever a rifle 10 times. One will remember the miss, procedural, shotgun shell fumble or primer failing to ignite. Having guns tuned that are primer specific will not save that much time on a stage. Just my opinion. Couldn't agree more which is why my hesitation to switch to another brand of primers. I couldn't care less if the hammer is a couple pounds heaver as long as I know when I pull the trigger it goes bang every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Hi Griff, Someone mentioned about a washer above. No washer at all. The spring is tight against the frame. Put in a stainless lock washer between the spring and the frame. Get a nice thick one. This will move the spring farther from the frame and add to the tension against the hammer roller. Just removing the leather washer will reduce the tension on the hammer and cause soft strikes. Unless someone has changed out the factory springs. In which case, get the ones from VTI as suggested by Cheatin' Chamberlin. Also, look for evidence on whether the hammer is draggin' against the sides of its' channel. This can be caused by either wear on the hammer screw hole or the screw itself that allows the hammer to rock from side to side. This will slow the hammer down, causing soft hits. Myself, I buy Colt hammer springs, then "hourglass" the sides from about ¾" at either end, keeping the middle portion about a ¼" wide, and finish them off with an overall polish to smooth any roughness for any edge, (a place for a crack or break to start). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 What about the hold down screw? Back the tension screw off and make sure the hold down screw is 'tite'. Then retighten the tension screw. OLG OLG, have already tried all of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Johnny, another thought. Since you got those used, it's hard to know the history or age. But some years back , some of the Model P hammers had the firing pin hole drilled too deep by Uberti. So if you did a whole lot of shooting or dry firing with snap caps, over time the firing pin retainer pin could bend and allow the firing pin to sink a tiny bit further into the hole in the hammer, resulting in some light strikes. I know of one case of that happening on an ER pistol. Compare the firing pin protrusion through the recoil shield compared to your other Ubertis. Small chance, but easy to check. Not that small of a chance. The Uberti's historically have had poor pin protrusion right out of the box. Across the board for all of their guns they typically use heavy springs to compensate for poor fit. It's all about man-hour savings. Colt spec is something like .050 to .055" and the FP will move laterally seeking center but not front to back. I have never seen a uberti with that much tip and some will actually move forward even without a bent retaining pin. To me changing to heavier springs or more sensitive primers is treating the symptoms not the problem. Check the FP protrusion. Anything less than about .035" is just not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Money Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 Check your phone messages, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 OLG, have already tried all of those. Tho the screw is metric. Try to find one longer, and give it a go. If you can correctly determine the size and thread pitch. I'll bet you can get a longer one from Brownells. Best of luck. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 So far so good! Flattening the arch in the spring seems to have given it enough to light off both CCI and Winchester. I used Charlie's idea of priming a few EMPTY cases and they all popped. I did have to remove the cylinder to get the case out for the winchesters but not the CCI.... next I'll test at the range with live fire. If I still have issues, I'll go with the washer. Or I'll just get a factory replacement from VTI. I checked the FP and there is plenty sticking out. I really think he main spring was so light, the hammer was bouncing. Anyway.... thanks to all! -JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Glad it worked for you. Odds are if they went off with empty cases they should work with loaded ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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