Let's talk about the Revolvers to avoid

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

There have been numerous threads on the SASS Wire discussing the lever action rifles to avoid when starting out in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS); however, I haven't seen a lot about the brands of revolvers that seem to have issues and thus not highly recommended for CAS.

It's easy to spot the revolvers that are consistently reliable and highly suggested for the new shooter.

Any experience you have had in the past with a revolver and it's issues would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

So....Let's talk about the Revolvers to avoid.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Of the guns currently being manufactured for this game, there really aren't any. With the premise, they will ALL require some work to run well in the CAS environment. Some, will just require a little more work than others. Care must must always be taken when considering the acquisition of "pre-owned." Just like used cars. Watch yer butt.

 

Coffinmaker

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

 

It's easy to spot the revolvers that are consistently reliable and highly suggested for the new shooter.

 

Take that list, all others are on the "not so recommended" list. Simple.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Hoss]

Going the other way, for a new shooter especially, Rugers are hard to beat. built like tanks, great warranty.

 

My wife has a pair of Uberti/Cimarron Lightings in 38sp. They work fine, but they are not nearly as well built or "substantial" as my Rugers.

 

I also have a pair of Uberti 72 opentops. they are beautiful guns, but can be a little finicky. Got to get the cylinder gap/wedge set just right.

 

The only Pietta I have are 58 Remington Cap guns. they work fine. well made, I've got zero complaints about them.

[Alpo]

That one's not legal. Too many holes in the wheel.

[Warden Callaway]

In the 22 line, I'm hearing bad things about the Heritage Arms revolvers. One gunshop said he refused to sale any more because they all came back broken.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Hoss is spot on.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

That one's not legal. Too many holes in the wheel.

Well, yeah. That and it's double action.

[Joe West]

In the 22 line, I'm hearing bad things about the Heritage Arms revolvers. One gunshop said he refused to sale any more because they all came back broken.

We're having the opposite condition. The ones sold by the shop I frequent and the other shops in my area often show up at the Sheriff's Range program I'm range master for and only one of many was sent back. It was promptly repaired. It makes a good first gun for training.

Joe

[Warden Callaway]

We're having the opposite condition. The ones sold by the shop I frequent and the other shops in my area often show up at the Sheriff's Range program I'm range master for and only one of many was sent back. It was promptly repaired. It makes a good first gun for training.

Joe

My son has one and uses it while trapping around lakes and swamps in Minnesota. I don't think he's had any problems with it. But he's pretty easy on guns and tolls, etc. And he doesn't go out and shoot a brick of 22s through it in a weekend of plinking. Mary shot one when taking her conceal carry class.

 

Every gunshop has plenty in stock - most marked up a good bit. One warehouse dealer near us that markets through GB has them for $120/ea or 5/$600 with free shipping. They must have bought a train load.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I avoid Rugers at all costs!!!

[Warden Callaway]

I avoid Rugers at all costs!!!

+1 (my first +1! )

[Noz]

Going the other way, for a new shooter especially, Rugers are hard to beat. built like tanks, great warranty.

 

My wife has a pair of Uberti/Cimarron Lightings in 38sp. They work fine, but they are not nearly as well built or "substantial" as my Rugers.

 

I also have a pair of Uberti 72 opentops. they are beautiful guns, but can be a little finicky. Got to get the cylinder gap/wedge set just right.

 

The only Pietta I have are 58 Remington Cap guns. they work fine. well made, I've got zero complaints about them.

Hoss, that is the Uberti short arbor problem. Easy to solve by doing the Pettifogger solution.

[Blackey Cole]

Take that list, all others are on the "not so recommended" list. Simple.

 

Good luck, GJ

Better said than my way of saying it joe

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

It's play time Boys & Girls, shoot what ever floats your boat ! That's SASS legal I might add !

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

I avoid Rugers at all costs!!!

 

Mr. Miles:

1. Would you mind clarifying for those of us that may want to consider a Ruger?

2. If not Rugers, what is your preferred revolver?

 

Thanks.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

I bets e likes that whatchamacallsit o u know that horse thing

o I fergit, o ya a COLT.

duh.....

Best

CR

[Rye Miles #13621]

 

Mr. Miles:

1. Would you mind clarifying for those of us that may want to consider a Ruger?

2. If not Rugers, what is your preferred revolver?

 

Thanks.

I love Colts!!! If not a Colt then a Colt clone, I know Ruger makes a sturdy well built gun but I just don't like the feel of them!

[Nate Leadspoon]

Heritage is now owned by Taurus IIRC correctly.

 

I bought my Heritage RR about a decade ago and though it eventually had the usual broken springs, I shot it regularly for many years before it ever gave me any trouble. Heritage also sells parts directly and most issues with these little guns are pretty easy to fix.

 

A lot of imported SAA type revolvers are made by Pietta and imported under different names. I've been pretty happy with all my Pietta made revolvers. And some of the basic parts (springs, grip frames) will interchange among the Pietta Colt-type guns and these are widely available.

 

Heritage also makes their big bore revolvers (357 and 45) which are apparently Pietta made parts assembled in the US by Heritage. I don't have any direct experience with the Heritage/Pietta big bore revolvers, but based on my experiences with other Pietta revolvers I would try them out without any reservation.

 

Traditions brand guns, both percussion and cartridge guns, are also Pietta imports.

 

CIA imported SAA clones occasionally appear and are also Pietta imports; I have one of these and like it. Best thing about these CIA marked guns is that often sell pretty inexpensively.

 

The old West German imported SAAs are a little odd mechanically and I believe are slightly larger than true SAA dimensions, but are of pretty good quality. I recently found an old, well-worn Hawes Western Marshall that turned into a pretty good beater revolver with some tinkering. The modern version is imported by EAA. Of all the available revolvers, these might be the best to avoid simply due to the availability of parts, or lack thereof.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I love Colts!!! If not a Colt then a Colt clone, I know Ruger makes a sturdy well built gun but I just don't like the feel of them!

That's exactly how I feel. Rugers are a great gun, but they don't feel right in my hand like a Colt does. Even the clones feel a bit off in comparison. Words of advice I wish I had adhered to are if you really want a Colt, then get one (or two), because in the end you will spend more money trying to get something like a Colt only to end up with the real thing anyway. And now you've spent all that money on non-colts.

[Rye Miles #13621]

That's exactly how I feel. Rugers are a great gun, but they don't feel right in my hand like a Colt does. Even the clones feel a bit off in comparison. Words of advice I wish I had adhered to are if you really want a Colt, then get one (or two), because in the end you will spend more money trying to get something like a Colt only to end up with the real thing anyway. And now you've spent all that money on non-colts.

Right on!!!

[Blackey Cole]

Me a plain colt saa or a plain colt don't feel right in my big hands now you put an army grip on the saa and I love it same with Bisley Rugers. What takes some getting use to is a S&W no 2

[Grizzly Dave]

I try to avoid the ones that don't belong to me.

 

Unless of course I have permission to fondle them, but that gets expensive as it often leads to me wanting my own pair.

[Warden Callaway]

 

This is the first center fire pistol I ever shot. That was well over 40 years ago. I bought it from my brother-in-law's estate. I shot it and a Cattleman in my first two matches.

 

 

By third match I had put the two old guns back into retirement and replaced them with this matched pair of Cattleman.

 

 

I traded into these bordshead NMV in 45ACP and shot them in last three matches. Oddly, I like the feel of these guns. I'm trying to fix a few problems with them.

 

I've shot them maybe a thousand times over the past month and still try to put then on half cock to load and unload.

[Cat Brules]

Some years back, Taurus tried to enter the Colt SAA (Model P), clone market.

 

Taurus called their SAA clone the "Gaucho."

 

There were many quality control issues and the Gaucho wasn't on the market for long. Some folks persisted, sending them back repeatedly and putting money and time into them to make them work. I've only seen a few of them.

 

I would put the Taurus Gaucho on your no-buy list.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Mr. Callaway:

Very nice presentation.

The history of your progression in the game, along with pictures, is wonderful!!

 

Mr. Brules:

This is exactly what I was looking for, specifics on revolvers with issues one may consider when choosing a firearm.

 

The Taurus Gaucho goes on the list.

[Warden Callaway]

Mr. Callaway:

Very nice presentation.

The history of your progression in the game, along with pictures, is wonderful!!

 

Mr. Brules:

This is exactly what I was looking for, specifics on revolvers with issues one may consider when choosing a firearm.

 

The Taurus Gaucho goes on the list.

Don't know if you'd call it progression. More like regression. If I has the funds, I'd shoot real Colts - probably second generation. The Uberti Cattleman are a practical substitute. I'm very happy with them.

 

The Rugers are hopefully a transit diversion. While I admit I enjoy shooting them, there is a lot of things about them I'm unfamiliar with. I'd probably be happier with Uberti Runnin' Irons with Birdshead grips.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

A few that don't work well with BP are the Remington 1875 Outlaw, 1858 conversion, Schofield and the Stallion (also know as Cimarron Lighting) all due to the lack of a cylinder pin bushing. Fouling causes them to bind, some are lucky to get off 5 rounds. I've had both the !875 Outlaw and Cimarron Lighting, both worked great with smokeless. The 1875 are a little heavy, but they are the most accurate SA I've handled. The Cimarron Lighting were great when Heather started shooting GFer, but after trying to make it through a state BP match it was too much. Wish i'd never sold the Lightings. The Conversioin and Scohfield suffer the same fate. The Scohfield would have been fine if they had copied it correctly, cause the originals did have the frame recess and a bushing. The 1858 with cap & ball seem to do better for some. The Taurus Gaucho were really nice with a smooth action, but they tried to do it with a transfer bar.........a weak transfer bar. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Noz]

Some years back, Taurus tried to enter the Colt SAA (Model P), clone market.

 

Taurus called their SAA clone the "Gaucho."

 

There were many quality control issues and the Gaucho wasn't on the market for long. Some folks persisted, sending them back repeatedly and putting money and time into them to make them work. I've only seen a few of them.

 

I would put the Taurus Gaucho on your no-buy list.

I have a pair of Gauchos in 357 that have been working, admittedly at a low level of use, for several years with zero problems.

That said, I would not buy a used one.

[Two Spurs]

Uberti made one for Beretta. I bought this at a big gun show at the extreme onset of my CAS before folks told me "don't buy until you try..."

 

Started to have trouble with the transfer bar after a little over a year of shooting only once a month. After a bit of searching around I found out that most gunsmiths would not work on them because there are some proprietary parts in the internals and they are difficult to get.

 

Nate Kiowa Jones is the only one around here that would do it, but I didn't want to put more money into the pistol at the time. (May do it yet...) Funny thing is that they were the same cost at the time as a new Ruger.

 

Good thread.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

How about the Colt "Cowboy"? Another transfer bar type. It didn't get very good reviews and didn't stay around for long.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

How about the Colt "Cowboy"? Another transfer bar type. It didn't get very good reviews and didn't stay around for long.

I looked for some of these .

Thinking I might find some somewhat cheap.

But there are none to be found ? Colt gen 4.5 lol

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

 

A few that don't work well with BP are the Remington 1875 Outlaw, 1858 conversion, Schofield and the Stallion (also know as Cimarron Lighting) all due to the lack of a cylinder pin bushing. Fouling causes them to bind, some are lucky to get off 5 rounds......The Conversioin and Scohfield suffer the same fate. The Scohfield would have been fine if they had copied it correctly, cause the originals did have the frame recess and a bushing.

 

Howdy

 

With all due respect, the Uberti versions of the S&W Top Break revolvers do have cylinder pin bushings. But because the cylinders were made longer than the originals, and because the frames were not stretched a comparable amount, the cylinder pin bushings were shortened, and the short bushings do not provide enough shielding to prevent BP fouling from reaching the cylinder arbor and causing the cylinder to bind. The cylinder in the front of this photo is from a Navy Arms Schofield. Notice there is a bushing, but it does not stand out very proud of the cylinder. The cylinder in the rear is one that Happy Trails modified by fabricating a longer bushing and mounting it to the cylinder. Because there was not enough clearance for the longer bushing, he had to cut a recess in the frame to clear the longer bushing.

 

 

 

 

Here is a photo of an original Schofield cylinder. Notice the prominent bushing. The bushing slips over the cylinder arbor, and prevents fouling blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap from being deposited on the arbor.

 

 

 

 

This photo shows the way the parts line up. The part above the hinge of the barrel is the cylinder arbor. The ejector mechanism of the cylinder slips inside the hollow arbor.

 

 

 

 

In this photo, the cylinder has been partially slipped over the arbor. The bushing is 'swallowing' the arbor.

 

 

 

 

This photo shows the cylinder completely assembled to the barrel. There is no 'recess' for the bushing, the bushing extends forward and bottoms on the barrel assembly, and the rear of the barrel extends back to within a few thousandths of the cylinder face. This is the way these revolvers were designed in the Black Powder era and they worked very well. The bushing extended far enough forward to shield the cylinder arbor from fouling blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap.

 

 

 

 

This photo of a nickel plated S&W New Model #3 shows things a bit more clearly. The cylinder bushing stands about .170 proud of the front of the cylinder. That means the opening at the front of the bushing is .170 forward of the place where powder fouling is blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap. There is no 'recess' for the bushing, the gun is designed so the bushing butts up against the barrel assembly. I can shoot this revolver with Black Powder for an entire match without it ever binding up from fouling on the cylinder.

 

 

 

 

For what it's worth, the 1875 Remington also has a small bushing on the front of the cylinder, but it is too small to effectively block fouling blasted out of the barrel cylinder gap from reaching the cylinder pin, and that model tends to bind up quickly from BP fouling.

 

The 1858 C&B Remington completely lacks any sort of cylinder bushing, the front of the cylinder is completely flat. This photo shows a cartridge conversion cylinder for the 1858 Remington and a normal C&B cylinder. The fronts of the cylinders are completely flat.

 

 

 

 

This photo shows how there is no horizontal separation of the barrel/cylinder gap and the front of the cylinder where the cylinder pin emerges on the 1858 Remington. Because of this, fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap is deposited directly on the cylinder pin. The lack of a cylinder bushing and the narrow cylinder pin of the 1858 Remington means this model fouls very quickly. I have to wipe off the front of the cylinder and the cylinder pin after every cylinder full or the gun will bind up.

 

 

 

 

 

Having said all this, the Uberti versions of the Schofield and Russian revolvers function very well with Smokeless powder, without any binding.

 

However, because of the extra reach needed to thumb the hammer of any S&W #3 Top Break, and because of the very odd grip shape of the Russian model, I do not recommend these models for beginners. Shooting the Russian model definitely takes some getting used to.

 

Top to bottom in this photo are the S&W New Model #3, the Schofield, and the Russian model. Uberti makes replicas of the Schofield and the Russian model which pretty much duplicate the appearance of the originals. There used to be a replica of the New Model #3 called the Laramie, but I do not believe it is currently in production.

 

 

[Indian Jack.]

I saw Hawes mentioned. I have a pair my dad bought for me in the early 1970s. If anything they are overbuilt in my opinion. Back in they day they had some high pressure loads run through them courtesy of some of my dads drinking reloader friends. I recently bought a like new Sheriffs model. Loading table monitors hate them because of the recessed cylinders. Lol. Also I have some buds who shoot Gauchos. Take care of them they will last forever. But....your mileage may vary. i have a Vaquero that needs repair.

[Diamond S Doug]

 

Heritage also makes their big bore revolvers (357 and 45) which are apparently Pietta made parts assembled in the US by Heritage. I don't have any direct experience with the Heritage/Pietta big bore revolvers, but based on my experiences with other Pietta revolvers I would try them out without any reservation.

 

 

I started with the Heritage 357. The follower end of the cylinder bolt is very thin. They lasted about 2 years before wearing out. However, while they lasted I really liked them.