Barry Sloe Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Think you missed the first one. Buckaroo/Buckarette These are both unofficial categories within Junior. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 These are both unofficial categories within Junior. BS Unofficial? They have their own rules, separate from junior....written by the sanctioning body.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 We're have our annual match next weekend and I was hoping that I could shoot 67 and 1/2er black powder gunfighter category. I could probably win the class which would give me a great since of accomplishment. Thank for all the input. Johnny M. Humm If there were 10 in the Category would you have your "Sense of Accomplishment" ? Nobody is asking for an empty win.... NOBODY! If there are not enough competitors then there should NOT be a category. Anyone with any self respect at all would NOT shoot in a category that didn't meet at least some minimum requirement for entries. (although I do know some that have) But forcing BP shooters to shoot against shooters that are over 50 yrs their junior is just BS! Yeah... sure... I've heard it before, my choice, shoot a different category.... well I've been shooting BP longer than most folks have been playing this game, and at this point in time I have no plans to change. However, I think that they ought to just offer a place for the OLD BP shooters to compete... if the OLD guys don't fill it up, then so be it. LIke I said... I'll be there regardless and giving it my best, but even OLD guys like to complete. I wonder why all these guys that claim they want true and real competion at it's best don't ALL sign up in the Cowboy category..... I'll tell you why, because they can't shoot 12 sec stages, that's why.... they prefer to shoot against their "Peers". Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Humm If there were 10 in the Category would you have your "Sense of Accomplishment" ? Nobody is asking for an empty win.... NOBODY! If there are not enough competitors then there should NOT be a category. Anyone with any self respect at all would NOT shoot in a category that didn't meet at least some minimum requirement for entries. (although I do know some that have) But forcing BP shooters to shoot against shooters that are over 50 yrs their junior is just BS! Yeah... sure... I've heard it before, my choice, shoot a different category.... well I've been shooting BP longer than most folks have been playing this game, and at this point in time I have no plans to change. However, I think that they ought to just offer a place for the OLD BP shooters to compete... if the OLD guys don't fill it up, then so be it. LIke I said... I'll be there regardless and giving it my best, but even OLD guys like to complete. I wonder why all these guys that claim they want true and real competion at it's best don't ALL sign up in the Cowboy category..... I'll tell you why, because they can't shoot 12 sec stages, that's why.... they prefer to shoot against their "Peers". Snakebite Uh oh, now you've done it. The all you have to do to win is show up crowd is going to take issue with you. Plenty of people are asking for and expect "empty wins." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 10-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 So far all I have learned in 5+ pages of discussion is that there is a requirement for state and above matches to offer all sanctioned categories. Yet no one can agree on what those categories are and the people that should be clearing this up are absent from the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 It's been working for 30+ years, so I guess it ain't broke. If something isn't broke, it doesn't need fixin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 So far all I have learned in 5+ pages of discussion is that there is a requirement for state and above matches to offer all sanctioned categories. Yet no one can agree on what those categories are and the people that should be clearing this up are absent from the conversation. You might have missed another five pages on this same topic about three weeks ago. What is frustrating is that plenty of MDs responded to this and previous threads and there is continued uncertainty on what the official categories actually are. Thus the quest to have a definitive list printed in the rule book. Inasmuch as the contracts for major matches require that they offer "all SASS approved shooting categories, based upon the official listing of all SASS recognized shooting categories at the time of the event" it would be nice if there actually was such a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Larson, you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Unofficial? They have their own rules, separate from junior....written by the sanctioning body.... From the SHB: "Juniors are persons aged 16 and under. The category may be subdivided by age and gender. Suggested divisions are ―Young Guns‖ aged 14 through 16 and ―Buckaroos‖ 13 and under. Caution is urged in allowing competitors under age 14. Local laws, regulations, and insurance requirements may prevent matches from offering some age groups." To me the "Suggested divisions" verbage takes away the "official" category. Young Guns & Buckaroos are just another name for the official category - Juniors. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 From the SHB: "Juniors are persons aged 16 and under. The category may be subdivided by age and gender. Suggested divisions are ―Young Guns‖ aged 14 through 16 and ―Buckaroos‖ 13 and under. Caution is urged in allowing competitors under age 14. Local laws, regulations, and insurance requirements may prevent matches from offering some age groups." To me the "Suggested divisions" verbage takes away the "official" category. Young Guns & Buckaroos are just another name for the official category - Juniors. BS How many other unofficial categories have their own rules spelled out in the rule book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I want a busted leg, broke back, can't walk well, slow shooting, target hitting, classic cowboy looking categories so I've got a slight chance of placing in the top ten with only ten allowed in the category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 In the thread that Larson refers to earlier, I begged the question as to WHY does the SASS organization offer "unofficial" categories at EOT, the "SASS World Championship", but does not recognize those categories as "official"? As it is, as mentioned earlier, a shooter can win a world championship but not a "national" championship 'cause WR is not forced to recognize those End of Trail, age based, categories. Lady Senior Frontier Cartridge Senior Frontier Cartridge Duelist Silver Senior Duelist Senior Gunfighter Lady Senior Gunfighter Again, why does the SASS sponsored EOT offer these world championship categories but, because they "have no official list" , prevent older shooters of entering other major matches in these categories unless the local MD offers them. Us old dudes are left to the will, whim, and budget of match directors who don't offer the same categories as "The Big SASS Match, EOT" 'cause they don't have to!!! Step up, SASS.... one or the other, don't offer them at EOT or recognize them as valid categories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 It's also very interesting, that with several serious requests that the SASS ( Wild Bunch?) office get involved in this discussion, I/we haven't seen any response. What's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Because they are in the entertainment business and have support for those categories. Sass states any match may offer additional categories if they have enough support and desire to. The problem isn't with EOT but why WR isn't offering those categories usually I beleive it because lack of support by the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Blackey, If you followed the previous thread re: this topic, you'll see Pettifogger'r comment on this very question, re; WR. They don't offer the "extra" EOT extra categories because of the award costs & because they're not "officially sanctioned" categories. If they were, WR would include them as options. WR is self supporting. EOT is not & can afford to offer awards that entry fees may or not fund. I agree that match directors have the option to add as many categories as they want/can afford but , IMO, SASS needs to set the example by making sure that the cost of all those "unofficial" EOT trophies are covered by match fees, just like all of the rest of us have to. My bet is, they're not. BTW, see ya at VVRW next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 As many, many have already noted SASS needs to generate a listing of the SASS approved categories. A list attached to the back of the SHB, ROI, and ROII handbooks would eliminate some of the discussion. I say some because even if it is in black and white, there are those who will still argue this or that. Hopefully someone at SASS HQ will get the hint and an addendum will be made to the handbooks. I'll see some of you at VVRW (Verde Valley Range Wars) next week or others at Bordertown next month. Ride safe, Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Yep, we're possed together. Gonna' be a hoot! DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 "There are 44 categories to my knowledge." good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 "There are 44 categories to my knowledge." good grief. But not by SASS 'cause they haven't yet produced the much requested "LIST"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 But not by SASS 'cause they haven't yet produced the much requested "LIST"! Well, there are 44 of them that are official enough for them to award Divisional Championships to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 You're right, but not for WR 'cause they're not required to 'cause SASS doesn't have a definitive list to adhere to. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 We need the official list from SASS. I could give out 150 different category awards at the AZ State Championship, but that does not make them "Official Categories". Barry Sloe Bordertown MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 My mistake I remember when WR was one of the first to offer additional categories when they had the support but I figured it was cost that played the mag or factor, and I had not read largsens post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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