Reloading for Fellow Shooters

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Almost weekly someone on this forum suggests a new shooter find someone in a local club reload for the new shooter until the new shooter can get into reloading. For someone to reload for the new shooter and be entirely within the law, what requirements must be met? (I don't intend to reload for anyone but my wife and myself.) Please, commercial reloaders and those with real legal knowledge respond. I suspect that some permits, licenses and insurance requirements may be required. One pitfall I know of is if you supply bad ammo to a fellow shooter at EOT your reputation will suffer for a long time.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I won't reload for anyone or use anyone else's reloads.

 

Many years ago (back in the 60's) when my Dad owned a sporting goods store and gun shop, he reloaded for customers. One ruined a gun and said it was because of the reloads. Took my Dad to small claims court and won. Dad said never again......same here.

[Pit Bull Tex]

A few years ago I meet a new shooter and he wanted to learn to reload.I had him come over and I had brass,powder,bullets and primers so I showed him how to load a few rounds for me then had him load 500 rounds for himself.He bought a press like he learned on and has been loading his on.

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

Legally you have to have a 06 FFL to load ammunition for sale and pay the Fed. tax on the ammunition. SADLY, not all loaded ammunition is what the buyer expects. At EOT this ear we had a very good shooter's ammunition fail PF testing. He bought it from a small "reloader" and it was marked as being well over PF. It failed using my dopler radar chrono by a significant margin.

 

This was at the Wild Bunch match. I have never seen anyone fail the CAS PF.

[Reuben McCoy Rankin # 34239]

A few years ago I meet a new shooter and he wanted to learn to reload.I had him come over and I had brass,powder,bullets and primers so I showed him how to load a few rounds for me then had him load 500 rounds for himself.He bought a press like he learned on and has been loading his on.

This is the only way to do it.

[Blastmaster]

Legally you have to have a 06 FFL to load ammunition for sale and pay the Fed. tax on the ammunition. SADLY, not all loaded ammunition is what the buyer expects. At EOT this ear we had a very good shooter's ammunition fail PF testing. He bought it from a small "reloader" and it was marked as being well over PF. It failed using my dopler radar chrono by a significant margin.

 

This was at the Wild Bunch match. I have never seen anyone fail the CAS PF.

Because no one ever checks and practically all KD's are calibrated for 22 rim fire ammo fly by breeze or less. LOL

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

06 FFL and a business lic for such, which includes inspection of said business property and state/city/county permits for such.

OH-Heavy dosage of liability insurance.

Get in touch with 'Cliff Hanger' on this forum. He use to do, what you want to do.

I did say 'use-to-do'.......he's out of that business now.

OLG

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Out of business because I could not get enough powder to full orders with a turn around of every week.

Those cowboy shooters shoot every dare weekend. hee hee

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A FFL 06 is needed to reload for others and for making new ammunition.

To get the FFL you need to apply.

The catch is, you need to know from your local area county or city or town that you can have this business in there area.

They do not want to issue unless you have FFL.

FFL doesn't ant to issue unless you have local business license or permits.

The FFL people know what you are going through and will work with you.

So start at your local government and ask about getting a liecnse and permit contingent on getting FFL after you know you can work where you want to.

 

The FFL was $30 for three years last time I renewed.

The country stuff went from $200 to almost $1000 per year.

 

There are federal ammunition taxes to be paid to ATF and there are Sales Taxes to pay to your local area.

Sales taxes are not avoid able.

If you have been in business going service work may think that reloading is labor with few parts to tax.

Wrong, everything you do with ammunition is considered product and it is all taxable for sales taxes.

 

Then there are the feds.

Here you can work around that taxes.

Currently the federal ammunition tax is 11% on all ammunition you load that is for sale.

Be careful.

The feds explanation...

If you own all the parts, powder, primer, bullet and case, then assemble it for sale, you pay the tax on it.

This means whether you use new brass or used brass, if belongs to you and you load it for sale, you owe the 11% ammunition tax.

 

\Now if you reload a customers brass, then you do not pay the ammunition tax.

Here is the gray area.

Customer wants new ammunition.

You have them buy the brass from whoever and have it sent to you.

You do not own the rass so you do not owe the ammunition tax.

Customer gets new ammunition.

 

Now more gray area.

You buy boxes of 1000 new brass in various calibers, and keep it on hand.

Customer orders new brass to be delivered to you.

You load your brass and sell as a reload job to customer.

When the customers brass shows up, you put it in your stock of brass.

 

Now the fun part. Keeping paper records for the ATF.

Keep to bound books.

One is called New Ammunition and the other is Customer Reloaded.

 

You put all reloaded customer ammunition salls in the reload book.

If you load ammunition you sell that you owned all the parts, you put that in the New Ammunition book and that is what you pay taxes on.

 

Another kicker.

If you plan to load ammunition that you will sell and you owned all the parts including fired brass, the tax is duenot when you sell it but when the parts are assembled. (When they fall of the press loaded)

 

So, I had a price list for reloading ammunition and a price list for new ammunition.

Quoted both then explained how to get new and save 11% buy buying the brass and shipping to my shop.

Also remember it all gets sales taxed.

 

To make it easier on the math at the range, I made a spread sheet that I could put the price in and that would be the total. The spreadsheet then backed the math out and showed me what the sales tax par ts was.

 

Example... I have an items I sell for $10. The customer pays $10, my program tells me I have to hold $.74 for sales taxes.

It is all printed on the invoice showing the price as $9. 24 + $.74 tax= $10.

 

I did this so I wouldn't have to have coin change at the range.

The price quoted always included sales taxes.

 

There is probably more I have forgotten.

But this is a start.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

A few years ago I meet a new shooter and he wanted to learn to reload.I had him come over and I had brass,powder,bullets and primers so I showed him how to load a few rounds for me then had him load 500 rounds for himself.He bought a press like he learned on and has been loading his on.

I tought several people to reload this way :-)

I think its the best thing you can do for them :-)

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

An ITAR registration may also be necessary. From what I read that's an annual fee of $2,250.00.

[Blackey Cole]

This is the only way to do it.

ill second that. It like the old story give a man a fish you feed him for a day teach him to fish you feed him for life.

[Dutch Wheeler]

A few years ago I meet a new shooter and he wanted to learn to reload.I had him come over and I had brass,powder,bullets and primers so I showed him how to load a few rounds for me then had him load 500 rounds for himself.He bought a press like he learned on and has been loading his on.

 

Safest approach. My son-in-law taught me. It ain't rocket science!

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

There are a select few folks that I would have no problem shooting their reloads. At the same time, there are only a select few folks I would allow to shoot MY reloads. My reloads in my guns, no problem.

 

Outside of the legal reasons, it seems to be more constructive to show a fellow shooter how to reload. Like the proverb says "give a man his bullets and he shoots for a day. teach a man to make his bullets and he shoots for a lifetime"

[Duncan Disorderly]

we had a company here that made bullets and ammo, he's getting older so stopped making ammo.

Sold his equipment, new guy's making ammo. Know not much else.

A guy that wanted to buy his stuff and couldn't / didn't bough new machinery and is making ammo..I can ask him anything.

MY concern is he's doing it out of his garage in a residential area..he's got hundreds of pounds of powder and tens of thousands of primers, plus all the lead. I REALLY doubt he's zoned for that or that his homeowners insurance has a clue or would cover any issues.

I'm more in favor of "i'll show you what to do" and help them get started. Have done that twice this year so far.
I have a friend who's brother reloads a ton (20k rounds year, pehraps more) but has had soem health issues this year so I've offered to load 45LC if he gets me the dies/components. But not for money, more as a favor.

[Blackey Cole]

When I bought my house it was from a reloader that did custom reloads he was licensed and the house is in a residential area. So if he's licensed it shouldn't be a problem as long as he follows the rules. Myself I have tens of thousands of lead projectiles, pounds od powder both smokeless and bp sub, less than a case of each ff & fff. Primers not as many as I'd like been hard to find at times.

[Blastmaster]

You all need to think about checking all applicable laws and rules concerning storage of flamable/explosive materials in a home. If not stored in proper storage containers and labeled accordingly, you run the risk of denial of homeowner/rental insurance coverage because of this oversight.

 

 

I have also heard, but can not verify that fire fighters may not enter your home, in fear of cooking off ammo. That is, if they know before hand of the extent of ammo storage.

 

Just saying..

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

The county permit, I had state right in the Emergency Action what I was to do in case of fire and what the fire department was going to do.

I have a copy on the wall next to my exit door and I had to send 4 copies to county to distribute in the office and the two nearest fire station.

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In the report it list what products I use and can had in stock. And how much of each.

It also has a detailed fire action plan which tells the fire department to move people back 1500 feet and not to engage the build where the loading operation is done.

 

I also had to have a cart capable of loading the powder on and move it at least 100 feet away to a clear area.

 

If thinking about not doing these things, the county fire inspector can and does show up unannounced as many as 3 times a year to inspect.

I had at least an inspection once a year and a few times twice a year.

Did get the third one.

The ATF also inspects and can just drop in during you post on the action report business hours.

 

There are a lot of hoops to jump through but they are easy enough to do as long as you play by their rules.

 

A fun notes: My AFT inspector was a lady of about 50 years or more, all of about 4'10" tall at a 100 lbs (maybe) and she carried a 6" 357Mag revolver in her purse or file carry bag.

She was thorough and she was fair. She answered all questions and she would help right on the spot to get you in compliance if you were not quiet up to their rules.

Another fun fact..the ATF inspector does not have a lot of ammunition manufacturers to visit. In fact she said most of her inspection were liquor stores. alcohol/tobacco some guns stores and very few ammunition places.

 

The county fire inspectors (always a different one) were not always up on their own codes. But they could be talked in to calling the main office for clarification.

 

I found respect was good and write down everything they say needs work.

Then when they have finished writing their report, ask what you can do to if the problem to be in compliance.

I have various inspectors stay another hour and help explain and actually see me make the changes I could them.

They would then write on their report those things fixed.

 

If you loose your cool, your will loose on the report as well.

And there will be more frequent inspections.

 

I agree with teaching people to reload their own.

I would even teach my customers if they want me to.