Best Big Lube Bullet for Rifle

[Nate Leadspoon]

Hello all,

 

I am looking at DD's Big Lube molds for 45 Colt. I would be shooting these in a 1860 Henry chambered in 45 Colt, and loaded with BP or equivalent amount of subs.

 

The PRS 250 bullet looks to be very popular, but I would like a lighter 200 grain bullet. The J/P 45-210 would be an obvious choice, but I found some mention that when seated to the crimp groove, the cartridge OAL is too short and will jam on a stock carrier.

 

Anybody have any experience/advice with the lighter 45 Big Lube bullets in the repro toggle link rifles? Any favorites/recommendations much appreciated!

 

Thanks!

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

Morning if your using a sub like app no special lube needed. For real black I use a 200grn. Bullet in my 66 and 73 both in 45 colt never had a problem. Just make sure your oal works for your rifle. Mine took a few times to get right.right about the crimp grove works best.

Rafe

[Nate Leadspoon]

Thanks Rafe. I've been using a 200 grain bullet from a Lee mold. Works great, but does have a skinny lube groove. Fouling is manageable with real BP, but I have to run a patch down the barrel at least every other stage.

 

I've shot the DD Snakebite bullet in 38 Special with BP in my '66 and it works great, barrel swabbing is optional with that bullet. It made me a believer in the Big Lube bullets!

 

But as you said, APP/Black MZ is another good option and I am going to try this next with my existing Lee 200 grainers.

 

I just like the sparks from real BP...

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

The J/P bullet works fine in my wife's Uberti 1866 carbine.

[Nate Leadspoon]

I think some further digging has answered my own question regarding the J/P 200.

 

The original 200 grain version did have a short profile and may have presented length problems in toggle link rifles, but the current version offered by DD has been elongated. Good post by Driftwood Johnson has a helpful pic-

 

http://www.sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=248514

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

Another option is spritz some balistol down the barrel every other stage to keep the fouling soft. Mine only runs out of lube towards the end of the barrel. I shoot 24" rifles.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

With BP (or even the other subs) you are much better off using a pretty soft lead alloy bullet. If the crimp groove is in the "wrong" spot to get the right OAL, you can VERY EASILY crimp right into a driving band on the bullet. That .45 Colt case will crimp into most slugs without developing a bulged case mouth. (I think it would crimp into a Northern Pacific rail in mid-winter.)

 

It's also VERY easy to file back the cartridge return ramp on the front of the carrier to allow a shorter OAL to work just fine in your toggle-link rifle (73, 66 or 60 Henry).

 

Good luck, GJ

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

The man said he wanted a Big Lube bullet, so why are some guys telling him otherwise? With a Big Lube bullet you don't have to fool around spritzing anything to keep the rifle running.

 

As you may have gathered, I designed the original J/P 45-200 bullet a bunch of years ago. As you have also noted, the current 210 grain version is a bitt longer than the stubby bullet I designed.

 

First off, in a heavy rifle like a Henry you are not going to notice the recoil very much with a 250 grain bullet vs a 200 grain bullet.

 

But if you really want the 210 grain bullet, why not contact Dick Dastardly at Big Lube and ask for a sample before investing in the mold. He advertises that he will send 5 each of any of the Big Lube bullets for $15. That way you could load up some samples and see how they cycle in your rifle.

 

Generally speaking, it is best with a toggle link rifle if not much more than the rim of the next round in the magazine protrudes out into the carrier. Here is a photo looking down on the carrier of my 44-40 Henry, you can see the next round just barely poking out. But as has been stated, it is fairly easy to file the ramp on the carrier of a toggle link rifle so it will allow more of the next round to poke out of the magazine, and still be able to sweep that round back into the magazine as the carrier rises.

 

 

[Nate Leadspoon]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will contact DD about some bullet samples.

 

Based on the description of the new improved J/P 210, it has the same profile as the PRS 250, so it should run in any rifle that will handle that bullet.

 

The 250 grain bullets lack any real recoil in the Henry, but I like the idea of stretching my lead supply a little further with the 200 grn. bullets.

 

Thanks again,

 

Nate

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

 

Based on the description of the new improved J/P 210, it has the same profile as the PRS 250, so it should run in any rifle that will handle that bullet.

 

Well, I was originally going to say you were wrong, but I have been doing some computer graphics playing around with the illustrations of the current J-P 45-210 bullet and the venerable old PRS 250 grain bullets. It appears to me that both bullets may indeed share the same profile in front of the crimp groove. Learn something new every day.

 

 

 

In this illustration I have lined up the crimp grooves of both bullets. Hope DD does not mind me taking the liberty with the illustrations off his website. If we can assume both bullets are drawn to the same scale, the length of both bullets in front of the crimp groove does appear to be the same.

 

 

 

 

 

However, if I was you, before I invested in a mold, I would still call up Dick Dastardly to make sure, and I would ask for a sample of both bullets so I could load up some dummy rounds and make sure they cycled OK through my rifle.

 

Incidentally, you will also notice the 210 grain bullet shares several features with the 200 grain bullet I originally designed. Both driving bands are shorter, and the lube groove is narrower too. This was part of how I drove 50 grains out of the 200 grain bullet design. It means the 200 and the 210 grain bullets do not extend as far into the case, so there is more room left over for powder than with the original 250 grain bullet. Heed DD's advice not to exceed maximum allowable bullet velocity.

[Nate Leadspoon]

Thanks Driftwood.

 

I was actually wondering if I was reading too much into that statement in the Big Lube website description. It states that the improved J/P 45-210 uses the same "seating die settings" as the PRS 45-250 RNFP. I ordered a bullet sampler today so I will find out!

 

I would have ordered one sooner, but sometimes the Big Lube site glitches out for me (probably a browser issue).

 

My current 200 grain load only uses about 25 grains (1.6 cc Lee dipper) of powder with filler, so velocity should stay within SASS guidelines.

 

Thanks again,

 

Nate

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Filler!!!!????

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Filler!!!!????

Blaaa!!

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

Filler means more powder!!!!! Up your powder charge= less blowback

Rafe

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

FWIW, there are 4 versions of the J/P. The original short version, the second longer version, the third slightly shorter nose and increased lube version, and the current version. I have #2 and #3. I cast the #2 version for my wife when she shoots 45 Colt, and the nose is shorter than the PRS . My #3 version was mis-cut, and drops at .458, so I use it as a plinker in 45-70. If you wanted to go even lighter but have the long nose length you can also get the 45slim mould, but it is a bit more difficult to cast. I have been using these in my wife's other rifle with 45 Cowboy Special brass, seems to feed better.

[German Jim]

I would have ordered one sooner, but sometimes the Big Lube site glitches out for me (probably a browser issue).

 

My current 200 grain load only uses about 25 grains (1.6 cc Lee dipper) of powder with filler, so velocity should stay within SASS guidelines.

 

Thanks again,

 

Nate

What is filler? Does anyone have a definition of filler? Is it animal or vegetable?

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

For the 44-40 cartridges I load for my daughter and I, I fill the case halfway with ffg, and use some ffg as filler. Seems to work pretty well!

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

For the 44-40 cartridges I load for my daughter and I, I fill the case halfway with ffg, and use some ffg as filler. Seems to work pretty well!

I've seen her shoot. Maybe you should add a little more of that FFG filler to slow her down so that she won't be so much faster than me.