Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 seems I'm getting quite a few 209s where the primer is .008 of and inch below the rim,, and I've had misfires at .010.. anyone else experiencing this? some are .005 below which appears normal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Yes and I don't use Federal shotgun primers anymore. I use Winchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others. Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls. All primers are not the same in dimensions. This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others. Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls. All primers are not the same in dimensions. This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls. +1 and since I use AA's or STS's I quit trying to use the Federal shotgun primers in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 seems I'm getting quite a few 209s where the primer is .008 of and inch below the rim I had to get new pins for my vintage 1967 SKB 500 because of the recessed 209 primers. The only reload hulls that would fire were ACTIV's. Has anyone measured or confirmed that the shot shell manufacturers are making hulls with lower primer pockets now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Yep! That's why I switched to Winchester primers.5 light hits at winter range last year Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others. Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls. All primers are not the same in dimensions. This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls. +1 and since I use AA's or STS's I quit trying to use the Federal shotgun primers in them. +2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others. Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls. All primers are not the same in dimensions. This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls. I just looked through a SG reloading manual and selected a favorite brand of hull and they listed loads for Remington, Winchester, Federal and CCI primers for the same hull. Different powders and wads of course. Sou your statement isn't quite correct. Now there many be (or is) issues with current Federal primers as far as seating depth. EDIT: To answer CC's question, no I haven't had problems with Federal SG primers in Remington Gun Club hulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 I just loaded maybe 180 rounds and a good 50 were suspect!! way more than normal.. time to leave Fed 209s behind,, btw, I'm using AA hulls, and hate the box Fed come in too!!! too bad I have 700 left!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Interesting!! I have used Federal 209A primers ever since I started shooting CAS. NEVER have I had a FTF, or any other problem. I exclusively use STS hulls. I would be suspect of my firing pins or hammer springs if FTF's were to occur, because I have always found Federal primers to be very reliable. If you use a MEC loader, it's impossible to seat a primer too deep, due to the design of the primer seater. Some other brands of presses, can and are susceptible of seating primers too deep. So this is something that could possibly cause FTF's. Dished case heads is another cause. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Had the same problem. Lot of misfires in Kay's 87 but not as much in my Stoeger. Switched to Winchester - problem gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I just loaded maybe 180 rounds and a good 50 were suspect!! way more than normal.. time to leave Fed 209s behind,, btw, I'm using AA hulls, and hate the box Fed come in too!!! too bad I have 700 left!!! what press ared you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 How many times are you reloading the same hull? When I started playing with my Lee Loadall, I had some 5 lbs of old Pyrodex of various grades that had accumulated over 30 years. I took some 20 hulls and shot them to death to see how many reloads I could get out of them. I started getting FTF after about 8 reloads that I traced back to deep primer seating. 12 gauge hulls are too cheap and plentiful to reload over and over. But not so with 10 gauge. I can repair a loose or deep pocket by dropping a big bolt down it, set it on an oak block and giving it a good smack with a hammer. They make a tool for this but I'm too cheap to buy one. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/1338 Would the MEC size master "squoze" in a loose pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 using a mec 9000, some of the suspect loads are once fired AAs,,,..... gonna mic some primers today, and check the diameter of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Do you get the same FTF using Remington STS/Gun-Club hulls & Federal 209's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 It's just some lots of Federal primers that the internal primer cup gets set too deep in the (steel) outer shell. The quality control has gone to h#!! on some Federal production over the last few years. It's not very many lots, but I have gotten two lots of 209A primers where there was a problem with deep setting, and then a FTF in some double barrel shotguns. I use only Cheddite 209 primers now. They ALWAYS have a primer cup that is flush set in the outer shell of the primer. BTW- both lots I have reported to Federal over the last 5 years, asking them to make me whole somehow. They never replied. Second BTW - the loading data on Federal 209A primers has to be different than when using most of the other 209 primers. Not because the primer cup might be deep set though. It's because the 209A primer is quite a bit hotter and raises chamber pressure on most loads. So, you will find comparison loads in the same hull and wad and shot weight where the Fed 209A load is half a grain or more lighter on powder weight than Rem STS 209 or Win 209 data. THAT is why the loading manuals call out specific primers in their loads. Has anyone measured or confirmed that the shot shell manufacturers are making hulls with lower primer pockets now? And, no, this problem is not a problem with the hulls! Primer pocket dimensions are held pretty much standard from what I've seen. Besides, there is no "bottom" to a shotgun shell primer pocket. The battery cup (shell) around the primer has a lip to it. It's this lip that stops the primer flush with the head of the shotgun hull. A primer pocket has to be blown WAY OUT oversize on internal diameter before the outer shell of the primer sits any deeper into a shotgun hull! This problem is all caused by the factory letting their production equipment get out of spec and setting the inner primer too deep in the battery cup. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 It's just some lots of Federal primers that the internal primer cup gets set too deep in the (steel) outer shell. The quality control has gone to h#!! on some Federal production over the last few years. It's not very many lots, but I have gotten two lots of 209A primers where there was a problem with deep setting, and then a FTF in some double barrel shotguns. I use only Cheddite 209 primers now. They ALWAYS have a primer cup that is flush set in the outer shell of the primer. BTW- both lots I have reported to Federal over the last 5 years, asking them to make me whole somehow. They never replied. Second BTW - the loading data on Federal 209A primers has to be different than when using most o fhte other 209 primers. Not because the primer cup might be deep set though. It's because the 209A primer is quite a bit hotte and raises chamber pressure on most loads. So, you will find comparison loads in the same hull and wad and shot weight where the Fed 209A load is half a grain or more lighter on powder weight than Rem STS 209 or Win 209 data. THAT is why the loading manuals call out specific primers in their loads. And, no, this problem is not a problem with the hulls! Primer pocket dimensions are held pretty much standard from what I've seen. Besides, there is no "bottom" to a shotgun shell primer pocket. The battery cup (shell) around the primer has a lip to it. It's this lip that stops the primer flush with the head of the shotgun hull. A primer pocket has to be blown WAY OUT oversize on internal diameter before the outer shell of the primer sits any deeper into a shotgun hull! This problem is all caused by the factory letting their production equipment get out of spec and setting the inner primer too deep in the battery cup. Good luck, GJ +1+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 I used Winchester primers in AA, Red and Gray hulls; the STS and Nitro gold Remington's. Never had a problem with them. I had a brick of Federal 209's and out of 3 boxes I loaded up, I had 8 FTF's in my Baikal. I even switched barrels to see if it was just a light strike, but no difference. Put those away and went back to the Winchester's. Now I'm also using the CCI magnum 209's Those work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Never had that problem with Federals, but have had that problem with 2 different lots of Winchesters. Use Cheddite now. No problems so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 With my back up TTN clone, I get light hits with the Federal. With my BSS, Stoeger(4 of them), 1897's (6 of them) and main match TTN clone no problems. Thinking I'll be loading a bunch of cheddites to sample them in the backup ttn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 I get them with my 97s, all winnies, my skb and browning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I've run through a couple of thousand of the Fed 209s with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 I used to only have a few here and there, last 200 I loaded there were at least 50!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 EDIT: To answer CC's question, no I haven't had problems with Federal SG primers in Remington Gun Club hulls Ditto this - I load BP and have 6 or 7 flats loaded, and about 10K Federal primers on the shelf. I would be sorely disappointed if they began to fail I do notice that they don't look 100% seated, but they all have fired for the last several years. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Like GJ and Possum Skinner. I've been using Cheddit 209 primers for 6 years. Never and I mean never have I had a problem. They sit flush and will go off with even the lightest tuned SKB👍🏼 I've had problems with others in a light tuned SG. Pretty Boy, they have been selling the Cheddit at the club house at GOA. For a really good price. Hope to see ya at GOA. Regards, Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 I tried the Federals years ago because I had won some. I had misfires, especially in my '87. I only use Winchesters now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 Like GJ and Possum Skinner. I've been using Cheddit 209 primers for 6 years. Never and I mean never have I had a problem. They sit flush and will go off with even the lightest tuned SKB I've had problems with others in a light tuned SG. Pretty Boy, they have been selling the Cheddit at the club house at GOA. For a really good price. Hope to see ya at GOA. Regards, Ringer a couple thousand will be going home with me!!!! thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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