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Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

out of battery discharge video

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watched a slo mo of the vid, finger did not hit the trigger early,,, thus I have no idea what caused it,, rifle only needed the carrier pinched a bit and the sides honed a bit and all is well, apparently with the rifle...

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Perth boy was it a 73 or Marlin? Did you have the laver safety or was it removed?

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it is a 73 without the lever safety, but trigger wasn't hit,,, as shown in other cases too, it isn't a catch all, nor is the lil tiny spring on the firing pin,,,

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In this instance I bet the extractor hit the primer. Did you inspect the primer to see what shape hit it.

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100_0980.jpg

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100_0979.jpg

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extractor did not hit primer,,, firing pin mark,,,

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rounds 1-6 fired normally judging by the recoil

round #7 did not appear to fire the first time or after re-cocking but the case was hard to extract and you say no unfired rounds were found by brass pickers, watching the case extract it did not look like a live round as they usually fly higher and further back than empty cases.


The 8th round went obd before you had the lever closed, apparently the round stopped short of chambering and the firing pin had enough inertia going to fire it.


A lever safety would not have prevented this obd but a firing pin spring 'might?'.


It seems like the 7th round was a squib. Perhaps it is the one found in the rifle and the bullet from the eighth round was not lodged in the barrel or chamber and fell out at some point, maybe on the way to the ULT. Was the blown case still stuck in the chamber?



Very impressive recovery and finishing the stage, well done.

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the bullet from 8 cud not have fallen out,,, the case was still halfway into the chamber and we had to take it apart to get the split case out...

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took me a couple hours to quit shaking,,,

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Seventh round did not fire. Don't know why seventh rd was hard to extract. Possibly a crooked case from the case being sized and the base was canted in the shell plate. Do you case gauge alll rifle rounds? Shaved lead build up on exterior of case mouth?

 

Firing pin got temporarily stuck in the fire (out) position on eight round and set the primer off (no inertia because you levered rather slowly on that round) before cartridge was fully in chamber.

 

Stuck bullet is the eight bullet. If seventh was a squib, you would have found two bullets in barrel.

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where is the 7th bullet then?

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The seventh round, the hard to extract one does not appear to still have lead in it when it finally comes out. This is based on reviewing a zoomed in copy of the video frame by frame and watching it as it spins around. Resolution isn't the best, but I sure don't see lead in that case. I guess it is possible that the pill got shoved down in the case, but I would think that would have turned up by now, and don't know how that would help explain it.

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The firing pin did it.

 

Awhile back, a shooter came off the line with a jammed '73. Went to the unloading table and could not get the rifle to cycle. Heard my name called and just as I was coming up on the shooter's right he tried to close the lever. Kinda hard. Kaboom!! Simply turned around and walked away. Firing pin momentum.

 

The 7th round looks to have no lead in it. Glitch on the 8th, lever to close, bolt stops abruptly, firing pin keeps on going. Cannot explain one bullet.

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I have also seen several OBD with 97s. I was TO on a couple of them and saw the primer hit by the outside extractor. The flag on the 97 did not work well. One reason I shoot a double. Bullett 19707

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I have also seen several OBD with 97s. I was TO on a couple of them and saw the primer hit by the outside extractor. The flag on the 97 did not work well. One reason I shoot a double. Bullett 19707

Stuck firing pin on 97 will do it too. Don't ask me how I know that.

 

 

 

Grizz,

I would think it would be hard to collape a bullet into a case 'full' of BP.

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all the cases are accounted for,,, nothng to show for it tho,,,,,

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Yup, as others have noted:

 

All it takes for the 66/73 rifles is a bullet that will not feed well into the chamber, then a quick closure of the lever so that the firing pin's momentum can be enough to fire the primer.

 

The case can be slightly bulged or the chamber dirty enough to hinder.

 

Of course a stuck firing pin will do it as well, but just the momentum is enough, especially if the firing pin return spring is either not there or not working properly.

 

Cypress Sam and evidently Red Cent have investigated this pretty thoroughly as you can see by Sam's videos.

 

Cheyenne was shooting that sooty stuff, :D so that could "help." The round didn't fire, possibly due to that crud. Then the round moved forward on first hammer strike. Then crud even worse, maybe in the chamber... Bang

 

So keep yer glasses on and the gun pointed down range. You most likely will hit the target as well!

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I had a very minor OOB Saturday with my 66. about the 8th round in the string, I felt the lever pop against my knuckles pretty hard. I'm thinking I probably had the round 7/8ths od the way in the chamber, so no real damage done. TO did not even notice, but I felt it. No damage done.

 

Been there, done that!

Blackfoot :(

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best of my recollection this is what happened,,, first 6 went smoothly, 7th round wouldn't fire at all, least that I heard so I cocked it once or twice to try to get it to go,, then had to use extra force to extract the case,, 8 th round is the one that blew, no extra jiggling or anything,,,went about halfway into the chamber before blowing,, One bullet was in the barrel...

 

 

This description, combined with comments from Cody, and the photo evidence cited by Dave, leads me to think:

 

7th round had no powder. Primer only loosened the bullet in the case, bullet tip stuck in barrel throat. Extraction pulled case off the bottom part of bullet (that's why it extracted hard). And why the video closeup shows no bullet in that case.

 

8th round jammed into the bullet from round 7, stuck in throat. Got 2/3 way into chamber then stopped, so firing pin slammed into primer, setting off 8th round OOB. The less-than normal chamber pressure was enough to start both bullets moving down barrel, but it didn't have enough pressure to force the #8 slug out, only the #7.

 

Why did enough pressure get past #8 slug to push #7 clear of the barrel? Because the slug at the time the round fired was still in the chamber, not out in the throat of the barrel. And this is a .357 chamber, right, so there was even 0.100" of free space in the chamber that a .357 round would not have. So, a blast of the pressure leaked around slug #8 and pushed slug #7 out. With the pressure that escaped through the blown case and the amount of pressure that got ahead of the slug #8, I can see #8 not having enough pressure behind it to clear it out the barrel.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

PS -

Part of this discussion lined out that was later shown to be based on assumption rather than the facts stated at a later time. Believe the assumption that I made was not required for the OOB to occur the way that I have speculated, however.

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(OK, went back and reviewed the entire thread. Only at the 93rd post did you disclose the gun's chambering to us.)

 

But, take a look a the ruptured case. It shows in the pictures to have blown the mouth out to the full diameter of the chamber, not the neck diameter. There's no shoulder left. Leaving the mouth of the case open enough to blow powder gas past the #8 slug and start working on shoving the #7 slug the rest of the way out the barrel.

 

Otherwise, present a better explanation if you can figure one out.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I thought CC has said it was 44-40 here, maybe it was facebook.

 

Your scenario makes as much sense as anything and is something I wondered about as well, but not having your knowledge or experience I didn't want to voice it.

 

I wish the hat cam had been running, it would have provided useful information, both visual and audio.

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Another pard here who won't touch Facebook with a 10 foot cyber-security pole. :lol:

 

Good luck, GJ

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I had thot about the 8th pushing out the 7th,,, but no smoke on 8th shot from barrel,, I was thinking it was maybe a primer only on 7, but the vid picked up NO noise except the rifle clicks..

 

at this point it is all conjecture...

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there were six distinct puffs of BP smoke

 

No seventh puff of BP smoke of any sort, nor any sort of primer only sound. You can hear the toggling of the rifles action, which is a testiment to the audio of the camera.

 

A puff of smoke from the eighth round (OBD).

 

Everyone there was so hard of hearing they could not tell primer only? I think the cameras audio was good enough to hear a pop,,, about as loud as the toggling.

 

You may have found 10 cases but you have not accounted for 10 bullets. Every squip rifle round I've see, the bullet was in there solid, well past the case mouth and lodged in the rifling. But not so far down as a second round could be completely chambered.. The eight rounds pressure was quickly relieved to the atmosphere by the exploded case outside the chamber and not much to do anything to push two projectiles down the barrel.

 

CC, how far down the barrel was the lodged bullet? As well, you had the front row seat on this deal,

 

A good mistery for sure.

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There have been some cases discussed right here on this wire where the air captured between two slugs stuck in a barrel gets compressed by the second slug moving forward, compressed enough to get the forward slug moving down barrel and out muzzle. Second slug runs out of pressure, and it stops in barrel.

 

And other cases where there was enough pressure behind the second slug to clear both slugs out the barrel. Sometimes (especially with smokeless powder with it's higher, sharper pressure curve) also ringing the barrel at the spot where the first slug stuck in the barrel.

 

Good luck, GJ

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no ringing of the barrel,,, tho my marlin has 3 of them....

 

pressure from 8 most likely pushed it out...

 

amazing the sound the lil kodak picked up..

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the bullet was at least 2/3s from the muzzle,, 19" or 20 barrel....

 

these were full house loads of 777,,, pretty hot,, and lots of smoke for sure!!! did lots of guessing on targets last weekend, and up to this stage had only missed 2 rifle targets...

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If you are pretty sure you did not have a primer-only on #7, then perhaps you had a fired-primer-left-in-case. That would have to be combined with a real fat or long-seated slug to have stuck slug #7 in the throat, though, as I'm sure you don't load long enough to normally have slugs get stuck in barrel when you flick out a loaded round.....

 

As you say, pretty hard to get a good guess after the fact. GJ

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I wud have thot a squib, but the vid showed no sound evidence, maybe to quiet to hear at all..

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tore the rifle down,,, I do have a spring on the firing pin after all,,, only thing I had to do was to whack the carrier twice with a small leather hammer and then run the sides over sandpaper. timing is correct,,,

 

was watched over!!

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Griz mentioned that he heard via facebook that the rifle was a 44-40. True or false?

 

The picture in post #76 shows a straight walled case and not a slightly bottle neck case of a 44-40.

 

CC, do you have any 38-40 guns or ammo (rd #7)?

 

If all the above conditions exist, could a loaded 38-40 (rd #7) be chambered into a 44-40 rifle and shot?

 

What is the case head stamp for the straight walled ruptured case?

 

If so, and 38-40 was a primer only squib (no smoke), the undersized bullet could go a long ways down the barrel, being undersized and all.

 

With the detonation of Rd #8, the slight Pneumatic compression of the air between stuck bullet #7 and bullet #8 could have been enough to complete the exiting of bullet #7.

 

Of course, if rifle wasn't a 44-40 nor ammo wasn't 38-40 then throw this out. Trying to conger up a theory of wrong ammo in wrong gun + throw in primer only squib.

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