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Subdeacon Joe

.22 Mag. For Self Defense, American Rifleman.

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I saw this on FB: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/6/8/the-22-magnum-for-self-defense/

I jumped into the discussion with:

Let's consider how handguns "stop" crime.

Per both Lott and Kleck, about 98% of the time when handguns are used their effectiveness is just being there. Show the gun, point the gun, and most likely the thug will beat feat.

That leaves the 2% of the time when the gun is fired. If we take the 2,000,000 crimes stopped every year by armed citizens, that means that about 40,000 times a year the trigger gets pulled in a DGU. Very few of those hit the thug, and very few of those cause his demise.

We need to start looking at DGUs realistically, not from a "Well, if I'm attacked by 30 armed thugs, I want a Spray-n-Pray in .45ACP Long Magnum Short Case (just throwing buzz words together)"

Odds are you will never need a firearm for a DGU.

If the dice roll against you, odds are that you will not have to fire it, maybe not even draw it, and it will be a successful DGU.

If that roll goes against you, odds are that you won't hit jack, and it will still be a successful DGU.

If you do score a hit, most likely you will only wound the thug, and it will still be a successful DGU.

Very rarely will the thug be killed in a successful DGU. And that will more likely be by chance than that we are the the steely-eyed gunfighter we all like to believe we are.

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Excellent. How true. A thug is generally a low self esteem individual that is looking to use fear to gain an advantage an take a free ride. If that ride comes with the threat of their own bodily harm they will generally run. Thugs are in all walks of life and they always take the easy path with the least resistance. That's why its important to keep the rright to defend ourselves. Fewer gun free zones equates to less crime

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What's a DGU?

 

 

Defensive Gun Use

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Most of the law guys I grew up with carried high standard .22 magnum derringers and they were issued by Louisiana state polices back up

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Howdy,

Just remember the primary use of a handgun is to make the bad guys duck long nuff

for you to reach a REAL weapon.

Best

CR

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I'd prefer something a bit heftier, at least a .380. Regardless, the advice about "one in the head and two in the chest" isn't where I'd point the gun. I would tell a would-be (male) perp, "If you don't bleed to death, you may spend the rest of your life singing soprano! :o If you need to shoot and miss right or left, you just might hit a femoral artery, which could be fatal to the perp. Of course, if the perp has a gun, he might survive long enough to do you serious damage. In which case rounds 2,3 and 4 where the author of the article suggested might be better.

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I carry a Smith and Wesson body guard ( no laser ) 380 Backup in my front pocket.

And a 1911 Commaner on my hip .

 

And a ATI AR 556 Pistol with 30 roud magazine in my truck .

 

And You ask what am I afraid of ?

Not A Damd Thing I say :-)

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I'm pretty sure that an attacker doesn't want to be shot.... by anything.....pellet gun or above. ;)

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I love that video clip.

 

I tested some .22Mag loads on the terrifying milk jug filled with water. From my NAA I could penetrate into the second jug,very little expansion. A friend has a .22Mag semi auto with an 8 inch barrel. The difference 6 inches of barrel makes is impressive. First jug exploded, second jug split, bullet expanded about double.

I'd love to have a KelTec PMR-30 to test, since it's barrel splits the difference between my NAA and my friends pistol.

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I always hear how the bad guy will pee his pants and run away at the first sign of resistance.

But just like the "stand up to a bully and he will back down" philosophy, it doesn't always work out that way. Sometimes you get your ass kicked.

A tweaker with a gun feels invincible. And some gang bangers have been in more shootouts than most cops.

Bottom line is be as prepared as possible. Choose your weapon wisely. Get some training.

And don't count on anything turning out the way you thought it would.

Be safe.

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I'm pretty sure that an attacker doesn't want to be shot.... by anything.....pellet gun or above. ;)

I read in some gun magazine a while ago that thugs are usually not gun experts and someone shooting at them even with a .22LR is gonna freak out!! They don't know what caliber is coming at them, all they know is someone is shooting at them!! <_<

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I read in some gun magazine a while ago that thugs are usually not gun experts and someone shooting at them even with a .22LR is gonna freak out!! They don't know what caliber is coming at them, all they know is someone is shooting at them!! <_<

It's that "usually" thing that can be problematic.

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It's that "usually" thing that can be problematic.

Would you know in an instant what caliber someone was shooting at you with? The point is you would duck and take cover because you don't want to get hit with any bullet! A thug would most likely get the %^$# outta there!

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it's not the thugs that run at the first "pop" of a firearm that I'm worried about.

 

He's not what I carry for either.

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If I could figure out a legal and logical way to carry a 12 gauge, that is what I would carry. However, there is that whole 18" barrel and overall length thing and tax stamp thing to contend with should one go too short.

 

With that being said, my daily carry firearms rotate between a S&W Shield 9mm and a S&W J frame revolver in 38spl +P

 

I have other firearms that are suitable for carry but I am very confident in both of these and I'm not likely to be up against an invading horde of gangbangers. If I ever thought that would be a possibility, I do have firearms far more suitable to the task than any pistol or revolver.

 

Would I carry a .22 (LR or Mag)? It's better than a sharp stick or a rock. Not my first choice but if it was what I had in my hand at the time, I'd sure use it.

 

As for missing if you happen to hit an innocent bystander with a .22 or a 45acp or the rock you just threw at the bad guy, count on being sued.

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There is one thing I haven't noticed being mentioned: What about the guy that is high on drugs? If you recall, the Moro tribesmen in the Philippines used to get doped up and a .38LC wouldn't bring them down, which led to the reissue of the .45LC and development of the .45ACP. Somebody hit with a .22 rfm might die from wounds, but still be able to kill you! You want to stop them! Refer to the FBI Miami shootout. The one perp wasn't even on anything, was dead on his feet and still was able to perpetrate a massacre!

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The PMR-30 was well developed. The magazines were tested and developed using a machine pistol version of the PMR-30. I'd take 30+1 of .22WMR any day over throwing rocks especially with all of the ammo development that has been happening in that cartridge. For weaker hands it's a better bet than a six or seven shot .380...

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If I could figure out a legal and logical way to carry a 12 gauge, that is what I would carry. However, there is that whole 18" barrel and overall length thing and tax stamp thing to contend with should one go too short.

 

 

Simple solution....

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a17376/folding-shotgun/

 

Don't believe it?

 

 

I've got one of the non-folding ones and the are quite nifty guns. For some reason though, they are not SASS legal.

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If I could figure out a legal and logical way to carry a 12 gauge, that is what I would carry.

just carry the S&W Judge, or Tauras equivalent in 410.

 

2 x 410 = 1 x 12gauge

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The PMR-30 was well developed. The magazines were tested and developed using a machine pistol version of the PMR-30. I'd take 30+1 of .22WMR any day over throwing rocks especially with all of the ammo development that has been happening in that cartridge. For weaker hands it's a better bet than a six or seven shot .380...

California, colorado and some other states have magazine capacity limits. So you would be out of luck with PMR-30 in those states.

 

It is a handful (size wise as shown below) , suited for house gun and with that, I can think of other guns better suited for home protections.

 

414-355-PMR30-2.jpg

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just carry the S&W Judge, or Tauras equivalent in 410.

 

2 x 410 = 1 x 12gauge

Not a huge fan of the Judge for a daily CCW firearm. The 38spl loaded with +P and the 9MM with 124gr P+ gives me as much feeling of comfort as any handgun does. I have 2 45ACP's. I sometimes carry the commander size 1911 (Kimber Pro) but day in day out, the little revolver gets more carry time than anything else followed by the 9mm Shield. I'm not going to take out an entire gang of attacking drug dealers, but the junkie in the Walmart parking lot would probably be on the ground leaking if I had presence of mind to hit and as loud as short barrel firearms are, it would sure get his attention if I missed.

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Not a huge fan of the Judge for a daily CCW firearm. The 38spl loaded with +P and the 9MM with 124gr P+ gives me as much feeling of comfort as any handgun does. I have 2 45ACP's. I sometimes carry the commander size 1911 (Kimber Pro) but day in day out, the little revolver gets more carry time than anything else followed by the 9mm Shield. I'm not going to take out an entire gang of attacking drug dealers, but the junkie in the Walmart parking lot would probably be on the ground leaking if I had presence of mind to hit and as loud as short barrel firearms are, it would sure get his attention if I missed.

I was only solving for the wish you stated below, wanting a carry 12g

 

"If I could figure out a legal and logical way to carry a 12 gauge, that is what I would carry. "

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In time of need a smaller caliber carried is better then a larger caliber in the glove box.

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I was only solving for the wish you stated below, wanting a carry 12g

 

"If I could figure out a legal and logical way to carry a 12 gauge, that is what I would carry. "

Blastmaster I know. No offense taken and that was a pretty cool shotgun. I keep an Ithaca 37 around the house. I live in a neighborhood where houses are too close to make a rifle viable.

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California, colorado and some other states have magazine capacity limits. So you would be out of luck with PMR-30 in those states.

 

It is a handful (size wise as shown below) , suited for house gun and with that, I can think of other guns better suited for home protections.

 

414-355-PMR30-2.jpg

Wow that's ugly! 😝

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Wow that's ugly!

And loud!

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In time of need a smaller caliber carried is better then a larger caliber in the glove box.

 

 

I've told more people than I can count that a hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .44

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I've told more people than I can count that a hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .44

A hit on bad guy with any xx caliber bullet 'only counts' if it truly stops the threat/attack and you or loved one survives.

 

It counts more if you or loved one survives; attack w/o any physical injury to good guys.

 

I lean toward stopping the threat w/o any physical injuries (to me), and that takes several things to happen, multiple rounds, shot placement, & sufficient energy delivered by said bullet to perp, to be effective., to name a few.

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There was a street shootout between two gangs in Denver the other night. Over 100 rounds were fiired. I guess they don't always run in fear at the first shot.

Arm yourself accordingly.

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There was a street shootout between two gangs in Denver the other night. Over 100 rounds were fiired. I guess they don't always run in fear at the first shot.

Arm yourself accordingly.

Well said Bob!

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