J-BAR #18287 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Broken flat hand springs seem to occur frequently in Colt-type revolvers. Most of us who shoot the open top percussion revolvers in Frontiersman category have endured the problem, and I suspect a few of those who use authentic Colts have, too. Larsen E. Pettifogger has given us an elegant solution to the problem, using a Ruger handspring and plunger as a replacement for the old-style flat hand spring. But that method requires precise drilling in the revolver's frame, and I don't have a lot of confidence in myself to drill that accurately. Using a piece of spring wire in the hand itself is a quick and easy solution, if not as elegant.I'm not comfortable narrating a video, preferring to use printed titles instead. At least if you don't like my choice of background music, you can turn your speakers off and still get the information! Anyway, for what it's worth:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp1nbPw5Z4Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Interesting info, thanks for sharing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm the lucky one. I've never had a problem with the flat spring - even in guns over 50 years old. We have 6 Uberti Cattleman that have the teensy weensy coil spring, plunger and set screw arrangement that I'd like to convert over to flat spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozarks Ranger, SASS # 39553R Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Nice job J-Bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 How exactly does increased hand spring pressure slow down hammer fall, affecting cap ignition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Howdy I liked your video, and I liked the music too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Dollar Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 J-Bar, this is great! And thanks for posting it! Loved the music too! I shoot 1860 percussion and .45 colt 1871 open tops and have been worried one those springs would break on me. I haven't had one break yet... but I figure its bound to happen. I've done just about all of Larsen's open top tune ups except that one. I'm just not that brave to drill the frame. This is a great alternative to drilling. Just one complaint.... it took you ten years to share this? HAHA!!! Just kidding.... again thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I'm the lucky one. I've never had a problem with the flat spring - even in guns over 50 years old. We have 6 Uberti Cattleman that have the teensy weensy coil spring, plunger and set screw arrangement that I'd like to convert over to flat spring. Don't convert that. The coil spring and plunger is a huge improvement over the flat spring. J-Bar's wire is an improvement as well but I would never go back to a flat hand spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 How exactly does increased hand spring pressure slow down hammer fall, affecting cap ignition? As the hammer falls, the hand is being pulled back down into the channel in the frame. The stronger the hand spring, the harder it is to pull back inside the channel. If you are using a factory hammer spring you probably will never see this effect, but if you are using a reduced strength hammer spring, a strong hand spring can slow the hammer enough to cause ignition failure. If you are getting cap failure with a reduced strength hammer spring and a factory hand spring, you might improve performance by ditching the factory hand spring and putting in a lighter wire spring. It would be less drag on that lighter hammer spring. Also, if you are using a reduced strength trigger and bolt spring, sometimes you can cock the hammer so hard and fast that the cylinder notch can skip past the bolt. Since the hand spring forces the tip of the hand to ride on the cylinder, a strong hand spring can have a braking effect on cylinder rotation. I learned both of those things the hard way! So you play with the tension until the gun behaves like you want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 J-Bar, this is great! And thanks for posting it! Loved the music too! I shoot 1860 percussion and .45 colt 1871 open tops and have been worried one those springs would break on me. I haven't had one break yet... but I figure its bound to happen. I've done just about all of Larsen's open top tune ups except that one. I'm just not that brave to drill the frame. This is a great alternative to drilling. Just one complaint.... it took you ten years to share this? HAHA!!! Just kidding.... again thanks! I had to make sure it would work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Don't convert that. The coil spring and plunger is a huge improvement over the flat spring. J-Bar's wire is an improvement as well but I would never go back to a flat hand spring. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Since I've never had a flat hand spring break, I see no reason to convert it to wire or coil. The little coil spring, plunger and set screw is a pain to remove and reassemble. It would have been great if Uberti would have put a step in the pin so the whole assembly could just stay in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Great Job J-Bar! Hope to see you Saturday! Bring Gator Aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Since I've never had a flat hand spring break, I see no reason to convert it to wire or coil. The little coil spring, plunger and set screw is a pain to remove and reassemble. It would have been great if Uberti would have put a step in the pin so the whole assembly could just stay in the frame. I have an early Uberti with the coil hand spring... ain't no set screw... and you take off the backstrap... that coil spring is going all the way across the living room. Let put this way... all 4 of my Colt 2nd Gen 1851s, 2 3rd Gen SAAs, 1 2nd Gen SAA and a couple of other SAA clones that came with flat hand springs, sport coil hand spring and plungers! Got the first couple converted in 1986, and haven't had one break, or lose tension. If you only make ONE modification to the Colt style SA, this is the one to do. These ain't collector items... they're shootin' irons, and whatever makes 'em more reliable, is a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Thanks J-Bar -- good info --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim No Horse Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Great video J Bar....very helpful...and I liked the music instead of a running commentary....Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I have an early Uberti with the coil hand spring... ain't no set screw... and you take off the backstrap... that coil spring is going all the way across the living room. Let put this way... all 4 of my Colt 2nd Gen 1851s, 2 3rd Gen SAAs, 1 2nd Gen SAA and a couple of other SAA clones that came with flat hand springs, sport coil hand spring and plungers! Got the first couple converted in 1986, and haven't had one break, or lose tension. If you only make ONE modification to the Colt style SA, this is the one to do. These ain't collector items... they're shootin' irons, and whatever makes 'em more reliable, is a winner. I don't see how it makes it more reliable when I've shot single actions for 50 years and never had a flat hand spring to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Slim SASS #20107 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Thanks J-BAR. That's good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't see how it makes it more reliable when I've shot single actions for 50 years and never had a flat hand spring to fail. Not every gun experiences this type of failure, but the ones that do seem to keep doing it. This is a fix for the ones that do. Great video! CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't see how it makes it more reliable when I've shot single actions for 50 years and never had a flat hand spring to fail. Way back in 1968 I bought my first revolver, an Uberti brass framed 44 caliber 'Navy'. Yeah, I know, there was never a 44 caliber Navy made, but I didn't know that in 1968. Anyway, within a few months of buying it the hand spring broke. I took it to a local gunsmith and he fixed it. If I had known then what I know now, I could have fixed it myself. Since that time I have had flat bolt/trigger springs break and even a Colt bolt broke. Just because you are lucky and have never had a flat spring break, does not mean it won't happen eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I watched Fingers McGee break both hand springs on a pair of 1861s on two consecutive stages not more than 10 minutes apart. It's gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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