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Plainsman ?


Ruff Kut

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So I have been interested in giving plainsman a try. I thought I had myself fairly familiar with the rules iaw the latest handbook. Then I see CPT Baylor sporting his plaque that reads "Plainsman Modern" from this year's EOT. (Congrats to CPT Baylor by the way!) Nothing in the handbook I read mentioned a modern or traditional for plainsman. Did I miss something? Or are we/SASS not using our own rules at our own World Championship? What am I missing here?

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I could be wrong, but I believe it has to do with whether or not the rifle has ejectors

 

Someone beat me to it with the answer :)

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I figured there was a logic to it. The ejector vs extractor would make sense. This is just me being overly anal retentive I guess. If I get interested in shooting a category and read up on all the rules, and then show up to the range and they spring new ones on me I get a case of xxx xxx xxx. I could see there being differences in how things are done at say a monthly match or something. I am just a bit more surprised to see a curve ball thrown in at EOT.

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I absolutely want to try it! That is why I am asking questions now so I can get myself outfit with the right rifle for it. If I went out and picked up a rifle just to shoot Plainsman and then found out after the fact that there were separate categories to choose from I would be xxxxxx. I don't want to be a xxxx or say anything is xxxxxxx xx. That is not my intent. But we have now shot EoT, and apparently Winter Range as well, other than as outlined in the rules. We need to do some updating. Thanks to veryone for the replies and explanations.

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Same as other categories which can be broken down into a sub-category at matches... i.e.: There can be Silver Senior Duelist, etc. Might not be delineated in the rule book, or otherwise promulgated, but they make sense when explained. Since single shots can have either extractors or ejectors, if there are enough competitors with one it makes sense to have a separate category. I sure love it... and while some may feel it's unfair for "rifle" cartridges to compete against similar arms in "pistol" calibers, you pays your money and takes your chances! I love my little 1885 in 45Colt! It can shoot rings around my Sharps in .40-90BN... as far as speed and ease of reloading go! Even tho' both are ejector-less! (The Sharps goes along, just in case the targets are bit further than 100 yards)!

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Plainsman is a real hoot, great fun. I use a Buff Classic 38-55 with ejectors & 20'' barrel..sweet little rifle ! & the ROA's are just awesome.

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I, along with a few others, go with what I call ultra-traditional. Using Civil War era carbines like, Burnsides, Maynard's, Smiths,etc. I save the going fast for the main match. I use the Plainsman as a let my hair down and fully enjoy shooting fun. You don't know real pleasure until you hear someone ask, while you are loading the carbine, "What the $&@%# is that!?!?!?!.

 

This October for Defend Old Fort Parker, there is a very good chance that there will be 2 Burnsides for the Plainsman!!

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I jumped into Plainsman with an H&R Classic Target in 38-55. Decided I didn't like the 28" Barrel. Cut it down to 23" Super nice rifle

for Plainsman. Since I Run Cap Guns for Main Match anyway ...... Hey Hey Hey!!

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I absolutely want to try it! That is why I am asking questions now so I can get myself outfit with the right rifle for it. If I went out and picked up a rifle just to shoot Plainsman and then found out after the fact that there were separate categories to choose from I would be xxxxxx. I don't want to be a xxx. That is not my intent. But we have now shot EoT, and apparently Winter Range as well, other than as outlined in the rules. We need to do some updating. Thanks to veryone for the replies and explanations.

Hello Ruff Kut,

 

The only official categories are in the shooter's handbook, as is the official Plainsman side match description. Anything more than the basic description in the handbook is at the match director's discretion and can vary from match to match. In fact, at the 2016 California State Match, our side match had two Plainsman Categories, East and West, which correspond to Modern and Traditional.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Prarie Dawg and I got together and formulated the rules for two local club 3 day matches. We decided we wanted as many people as possible to shoot Plainsman with us and opened up the

rules so that cartridge pistols were allowed if they shot black powder in all their guns. They all enjoyed themselves and will shoot the next match with us. It is all for fun anyway. I shot cartridge

pistols this year along with my 1859 paper cartridge 54 cal. Sharps. Allowed everyone to stage their rifle rounds on the tables so you did not need a cartridge holder. They also allowed me to

stage my caps on the table also. What a gamer I am!

We shot the match on Friday and finished early enough so we could shoot blackpowder long range since our rifles were already dirty.

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Are the rifle targets a little further out???

 

TL

30 to 50 yds around here.

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Well, it has been pointed out to me that my comments so far have been both rude and crude and that I have made an XXX of myself. Apologies.

 

I'll make one last effort here to see if I can explain my thoughts without offending anyone further.

 

As written in the current Shooter's Handbook:

THE PLAINSMAN

 

-This event requires two .36 caliber or larger Frontiersman Category style percussion revolvers, shot Duelist style.

-Must use a SASSlegal single-shot rifle firing a traditional blackpowder rifle or revolver caliber cartridge (e.g., not a .30-30). The rifle may have spring actuated ejectors if they are standard for that rifle. .38 Special is legal
-Must use a side by side or single shot shotgun, with or without exposed hammers, or a lever action shotgun.

-Must use blackpowder in all loads (rifle, revolver, and shotgun).

As you pointed out Allie Mo "
In fact, at the 2016 California State Match, our side match had two Plainsman Categories, East and West, which correspond to Modern and Traditional."

If we are going to split Plainsman into Modern and Traditional categories at state level matches as well as both Winter Range and EoT, our SASS championship matches, then I suggest we make that distinction in the next update of the Shooter's Handbook.

 

A rifle with ejector puts you in the Modern Category

A rifle with extractor puts you in the Traditional category.

 

RK

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RK,

 

I didn't read anything in your posts that made me think you made an XXX of yourself.

 

You had questions and didn't/don't seem to get the explanations being explained on the wire.

 

In further asking you may have upset people that just don't understand why you can't get it just like they do.

 

Better hold onto your hat, now - you've done gone and made a recommendation when you already don't understand! :ph34r:

 

At least you're posting something directly related to shooting in the appropriate forum.

 

There are pieces of my post that may or may not be interpreted as I intended them to be. That's the way it will always be. Keep reading the books and asking questions until you understand.

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RK,

 

I would disagree with your suggestion on the basis that specifying such in the rules as mandated, means that some clubs would have to offer both categories when they likely don't have participation to warrant offering this side match at all. The rule as written allows clubs to offer it as a stand alone side match, with both types of rifles competing alongside each other... yet, as always, clubs and match directors are free to further define or segregate the rifles, (or other arms), into two, (or even more sub categories if they want to), when participation or local preferences are for such.

 

The last time I got to attend a Plainsman match at our club, IIRC we had a total of FIVE entrants. Further, IIRC, there were TRHEE rifles used... not three different models... a total of THREE rifles.

 

To paraphrase Noz's tag line... Leave Plainsman ALONE! (Well, ok, yeah I'd vote for forbidding the use of ROAs)! :P:D:D

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In regards to "ejectors" being "modern" and "extractors" as "traditional" I seem to recall reading something about Trapdoor rifles being classified as traditional even tho they had ejectors. Is that correct or not? Just wondering because I have a Trapdoor I thought I'd use if I ever get the chance to try Plainsman. They're nowhere near as fast as the H&R's but definitely faster than a Sharp's.

 

Angus

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then I suggest we make that distinction in the next update of the Shooter's Handbook.

 

A rifle with ejector puts you in the Modern Category

A rifle with extractor puts you in the Traditional category.

 

RK

 

Howdy RK, the best way to find out if Plainsman is gonna be offered is to check the application of the match, and/or get in touch with the MD. If it is gonna be offered a rifle with ejectors or with extractors will be allowed, it's usually dependant upon the number of shooters before they will split them, some will never split them.....so pick yer poison. There are a good many categories offered at different matches that are not in the book (Outlaw, Josey Wales, Pale Rider, Wart Hog...etc..etc) and for a good many years FCGF. One regional I've gone to has always said if you can find 7 (sometimes 5) shooters to shoot the category then they will offer it. I'm not gonna carry around 4 C&B pistols unless I know Josey Wales is being offered ;) . Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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Howdy RK, the best way to find out if Plainsman is gonna be offered is to check the application of the match, and/or get in touch with the MD. If it is gonna be offered a rifle with ejectors or with extractors will be allowed, it's usually dependent upon the number of shooters before they will split them, some will never split them.....so pick yer poison. There are a good many categories offered at different matches that are not in the book (Outlaw, Josey Wales, Pale Rider, Wart Hog...etc..etc) and for a good many years FCGF. One regional I've gone to has always said if you can find 7 (sometimes 5) shooters to shoot the category then they will offer it. I'm not gonna carry around 4 C&B pistols unless I know Josey Wales is being offered ;) . Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

This makes mucho sense .....

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I, along with a few others, go with what I call ultra-traditional. Using Civil War era carbines like, Burnsides, Maynard's, Smiths,etc. I save the going fast for the main match. I use the Plainsman as a let my hair down and fully enjoy shooting fun. You don't know real pleasure until you hear someone ask, while you are loading the carbine, "What the $&@%# is that!?!?!?!.

This October for Defend Old Fort Parker, there is a very good chance that there will be 2 Burnsides for the Plainsman!!

Bobs biggest problem shooting plainsman is having to bring 3x as much ammo as he needs because everybody wants to shoot his rifles after the match! And Bob obliges the requests. Great cowboy, always look forward to seeing him and Limey.

 

If one wants to "game" the plainsman, then the H&R Handi Rifle in pistol caliber is probably the way to go. I shoot a H&R buffalo Classic 45-70 with a 32" barrel. Has extractor, not ejector.

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Hoss,

 

I am with you. I shoot a Buffalo Classic, but in 38-55.

 

I am not going to reply any more. I am clearly unable to make myself understood. My entire point was simply that at our own World Championships we add on things that are not in the Shooter's Handbook.

 

Man I get it at local shoots up through state level matches. I got it. We shoot Outlaw, Josey Wales, Pale Rider and all that here. But we don't shoot those at EoT or Winter Range. All I was trying to do was point out that for the SASS World Championships at Winter Range and EoT, if there was ever a time to be "by the book" that would be it. I was just trying to suggest a clarification to the rules. From the e-mail I received, I clearly failed miserably! LOL

 

RK

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