Reloading question

[MBFields]

Was having issues with wrinkling brass in my 650. A pard asked if I was seating and crimping in one operation and said yes. He said most likely was the problem. Put in my dillon separate seating and crimping dies and behold problem disappeared. My question is on crimping. Dillon crimp is different than what I had. How do I tell how hard to crimp my reloads?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

A reasonable test to check for proper crimp is to put 6 rounds (with the same OAL) in a revolver and shoot 5 of them.

 

Pull the 6th round out and MIC it for OAL. If it moves, more likely it will move outward. Increase the crimp.

 

There could be the odd occasion that your bullet was undersized so it might be a good idea to MIC your bullets also before seating, just to be sure everything is consistent.

 

If you want to REALLY be sure you have a good crimp, put that same cartridge back in the revolver with 5 more and shoot those other 5 rounds....THEN, put that same 6th round out again and MIC it for OAL.

 

I normally check my crimp effectiveness by shooting 5 'hotter' loads and then check my 6th round.

 

I'm sure other Pards have better and more effective ways of testing crimps and will chime in with more info.

 

 

..........Widder

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

If it is for your rifle, fill the magazine and shoot 9 rounds, then remove the tenth and check over all length. If it is moving back into the brass your crimp is too loose.

[J-BAR #18287]

I am not aware of any advantage that comes from not crimping firmly...maybe trying to increase brass lifespan by reducing wear and tear on the rim? Not worth it in my book. One crimp failure in the rifle magazine or revolver cylinder can ruin the match, your day, your trip, etc. I crimp both blackpowder and smokeless cartridges to the max.

 

If you need an objective test, it should take a dozen or so firm whacks with an inertial bullet puller to disassemble the cartridge.

[Griff]

I've seated and crimped in the same die for years. It's just a matter of consistent brass length and die adjustment. Either of the above methods will tell you if your crimp is strong enough. Another is to put the cartridge in a kinetic bullet puller, if it takes more than three good whacks to dump the bullet, you're good to go.

[Attica Jack #23953]

If the bullet has a crimp groove, just crimp it in the groove, and there should not be a problem. When testing the crimp on a 45 acp. I just crimp them and try to push the bullet back into the case by hand pressure against the loading bench, if they move back I need a little more crimp.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

If your 45 Colt come out looking like 44-40 you have plenty of crimp.

 

 

Yes. I HAVE seen it.

 

Actually, what I do is push the bullet hard against a table. If it doesn't move its good. Others are more scientific.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

My thoughts on the Kinetic bullet puller is that its subject to how hard (or light) you whack it.

 

I admit that PUSHING AGAINST THE TABLE is another good method. I use it myself sometimes.

 

 

..........Widder

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Quick and easy checking of case crimp.

 

Stat with no primers and no powder in the press.

1. Used fired cleaned case.

2. Size and de-prime the case.

3. Flair the case.

4. Run case up in to crimp die. (no bullet)

5. Remove from press and look at crimp.;

6. If too much adjust die up. If to little, adjust die down.

7. Repeat until you get a nice looking crimp.

8 Set aside for the moment.

------

9. Take a loaded round that has the same bullet style and weight you plan to use.

10. Place it on the press at the crimp/ bullet seating station.

11. Turn the bullet seating punch up so as to seat the bullet in to the case less than it is.

12. Run loaded round up in to the crimp/seating die.

13. The seating punch should not have touched the bullets.

Now hand tighten the bullet seating punch down on to the bullet nose.

Hand tight only.

14. Remove this round and start with step 1.

15. Continue through all steps including seating the bullet.

16. Remove and check look of crimp and depth of seated bullet.

17. Adjust to get wanted bullet depth when seated.

--------------------

In my shop I have many dummy rounds that have the correct crimp and different bullet weights and shapes that I use to setup a press when getting ready to run various calibers.

This method allows me to set the press in a matter of a minute or two.

It gets the dies very close to where they need to be and requires very little adjustment to get them exact.

 

After doing this a few times, you will learn how tight by hand will produce the bullet depth without having to readjust.

 

The other methods suggested will work just fine.

I found some of them to be a little slower than others to use in a commercial operation.

[Amarillo Rattler]

My four Big Lube molds have large crimp rings. I adjust the Dillon Square Deal crimp die to squeeze the brass into the bullet crimp ring so that the end of the brass is flush with the lead above the crimp ring, as viewed with a magnifier under strong light. The final adjustment is made with 1/16th rotation of the die.

 

I've never had bullet creep, even when shooting Wart Hog loads.

 

Shootin' the Soot,

Amarillo Rattler

[Amarillo Rattler]

My four Big Lube molds have large crimp rings. I adjust the Dillon Square Deal crimp die to squeeze the brass into the bullet crimp ring so that the end of the brass is flush with the lead above the crimp ring, as viewed with a magnifier under strong light. The final adjustment is made with 1/16th rotation of the die.

 

I've never had bullet creep, even when shooting Wart Hog loads.

 

Shootin' the Soot,

Amarillo Rattler

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I have been seating and crimping in one step for many years.

 

I doubt that has anything to do with getting wrinkled brass.

 

What will wrinkle brass is getting too much case lube trapped on the outside of the brass.

 

Liquids cannot be compressed. Case lube is a liquid. When there are droplets of case lube left on the surface of the brass, the droplets of liquid cannot be compressed, so instead the brass gives way, causing dents or wrinkles.

 

What are you using for case lube, if anything?

 

If not, is any bullet lube seeping out and getting on the outside of the brass?

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

The push the bullet in test don't work for my cowboy loads as the bullet is already compressing the powder ....

 

Bullet crimp is measured by forward movement of the bullet ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Blastmaster]

If your bullet collapses into the case when trying to lever a live round into rifle chamber, ,,,,, ya might want to increase the crimp, or check for split cases.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

The push the bullet in test don't work for my cowboy loads as the bullet is already compressing the powder ....

 

Bullet crimp is measured by forward movement of the bullet ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

Jabez,

 

down South, I've nicknamed you The Warthog King.

 

Hope you don't mind.....

 

 

..........Widder

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Another angle is to run just the cartridge through the steps and then mic it and see if the end mics the same as the body, or just look to see if the flare is gone. Or run the cartridge with only a bullet and then pull the bullet to see if it deforms from the crimp.

[Noz]

I only use bullets with a crimp groove. A finish cartridge is one where the rim of the case is VISIBLY turned in to the bottom of the crimp groove. I agree with Driftwood and no longer mess with additional crimp dies.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

And I use NOTHING but a Redding Profile Crimp die on all straight sided pistol cases, and have for many, many years. I won't use ammo loaded any other way. Years of success can not be ignored. Many of those years were well before SASS even existed.

 

RBK

[McCandless]

In rifles, bullets even with a case groove, in bottle-necked cartridges, with too light a crimp, will collapse into the case and lock up your rifle... been there, done that, got the T-Shirt.

 

Highly recommend the Redding Profile Crimp die!

[MBFields]

Thanks everyone!

[MBFields]

One other question. Taper crimp or roll crimp? Does it matter for what we shoot?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Roll crimp, unless you are shooting ACP rounds.

Roll crimp keeps bullets from being pushed back in to the case in tubular magazines.

Rounds with poor crimps or tapered crimps will move back in to the case, shortening the round during recoil.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Semi autos with jacketed: taper crimp.

Semis headspace on the case mouth. Want to make sure something stops forward progress of the munition in case the extractor doesn't grab it when it strips off the magazine.

Revolvers with anything: roll crimp.

Three words: kinetic bullet pulling. Without a decent crimp you will end up with locked up cylinders, powder all over the place, odd sounding shots, bullets stuck in cylinder throats and light strikes(in moonclips).

 

I roll crimp any rounds for a revolver be they a rimless or rimmed case.

Thickness of the case doubled plus the diameter of the bullet minus .002-.004 as measured at the edge of the case mouth on the finished product.

 

Cliff hanger makes a point that I failed to mention: setback in tubular magazine or upon traveling up a feed ramp. Setback is dangerous in that it increases case pressure and can cause a Deusie of a jam.

I set my crimp for my 10mm rounds based on zero setback on three trips up the feed ramp. They're loaded hot and that just wouldn't do.

[Griff]

Roll crimp, unless you are shooting ACP rounds.

Roll crimp keeps bullets from being pushed back in to the case in tubular magazines.

Rounds with poor crimps or tapered crimps will move back in to the case, shortening the round during recoil.

 

 

Semi autos with jacketed: taper crimp.

Semis headspace on the case mouth. Want to make sure something stops forward progress of the munition in case the extractor doesn't grab it when it strips off the magazine.

Revolvers with anything: roll crimp.

Three words: kinetic bullet pulling. Without a decent crimp you will end up with locked up cylinders, powder all over the place, odd sounding shots, bullets stuck in cylinder throats and light strikes(in moonclips).

 

I roll crimp any rounds for a revolver be they a rimless or rimmed case.

Thickness of the case doubled plus the diameter of the bullet minus .002-.004 as measured at the edge of the case mouth on the finished product.

 

Cliff hanger makes a point that I failed to mention: setback in tubular magazine or upon traveling up a feed ramp. Setback is dangerous in that it increases case pressure and can cause a Deusie of a jam.

I set my crimp for my 10mm rounds based on zero setback on three trips up the feed ramp. They're loaded hot and that just wouldn't do.

Yep to both the above. Add tubular magazine rifles to the list for roll crimps. Cliff Hanger's earlier comment about dummy rounds might have gotten lost in that post... again: have dummy rounds in the box of dies for each bullet loaded with that set. Makes for very quick die settings when loading that specific combination again.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Hmm dummy rounds you say? Never thought of that. I must consider it.

 

I use Hornady locking rings on all dies. The OEM get taken off and pitched. This has helped me immensely. Rcbs and the brass set screw are the bane of my existence reloading 40/10mm.

 

One last quirk: I use separate dies for .38/.357 and .40/10mm set them up once and never fiddle with it again.

[Griff]

Hmm dummy rounds you say? Never thought of that. I must consider it.

 

I use Hornady locking rings on all dies. The OEM get taken off and pitched. This has helped me immensely. Rcbs and the brass set screw are the bane of my existence reloading 40/10mm.

 

One last quirk: I use separate dies for .38/.357 and .40/10mm set them up once and never fiddle with it again.

If you load different bullets, (and don't a separate seating die for 'em all), you'll appreciate it all the more! I load 5 different cast bullets and 3 jacketed ones in 45Colt... setting dies and ' forgetting 'em' is not an option!