Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Problem Reloaded shotgun shells?


Rance - SASS # 54090

Recommended Posts

I reload on a Mec Grabber..

I reload 12ga. using Winchester AA's hulls, with the old Featherlite recipe and Wadcutter CB0178-12 wads and 7/8 oz. of shot..

 

I reloaded a whole bunch (about 2-3 cases) about 2 years ago..

They were put through my size checker back then...

I"ve culled the tight ones then and dedicated them to practice ammo..

 

I'm getting ready for a big match (2-3 months down the road)..

and I thought I'd go through them to recheck the sizing

as I've had some I've used in regular matches that just didn't look right..

Still work but.. look weird.. :wacko:

 

I've went through about 14 boxes to get 7 boxes of good shotgun ammo..

A lot of the shells have ballooned/mushroomed out a smite at the crimp..

Some have tight spots about half way down..

The ballooned/mushroomed ones still go into my SxS but are tight in my size checker..

I'll relegate them to regular matches I reckon..

Some are bad enough to relegate for practice only..

 

Need ideas for next time reloading..

 

Too much crimp?

Too much pressure?

I thought the last stage on the Grabber tapered the crimp?

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin' I need ideas for next reloading event.. :wacko:

Still got lots of boxes to go through yet..

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do I understand right that the cases were assembled and sorted 2 years ago when you checked them for sizing, and now some of the "good" cases from back then are showing signs of bulging and the crimps coming apart? If that's the case, here are possibilities...

 

First, make sure you're following the load data correctly. The wrong wad can cause what you're describing, or maybe too much powder or shot. It's a basic problem of fitting too much stuff into the case and it pushes back out over time.

 

Second, are you storing the ammo in a warm location? I've seen ammo that's stored in a garage or out building that gets warm and the plastic starts to not hold its shape. If the ammo is two years old, that might be the case.

 

Barring those two, it's a good thing you check the ammo before a big shoot.

 

Be safe, have fun, and good luck at the shoot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you need to shorten the stack a bit. A tight crimp will hold for a while, but not forever, with a tight load.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Wadcutter CB0178-12

 

ummm, ClayBuster CB0178-12

 

 

I also load on a Grabber. But I now load exclusively Rem STS hulls.

 

I have given up on Win AA hulls, especially if they have been fired more than about twice I noticed that after about 6 months on the shelf after loading, the loaded rounds did some of the "swelling" that you are noticing. At the crimp area, a few crimps opened up some, enough to lose shot. Some just lengthened a little. Some mushroomed at the crimped edge of the hull. Seems the plastic is a little soft to hold shape well.

 

Down where the base of the shotshell wad (the 0178-12) contacts the inner "base wad" (separate white plastic base insert that surrounds the primer), the hull wall expands out to form a ripple or bulge, and that prevents easy loading and shucking from my doubles. I believe it's because the wads are not tapered enough to always slip inside the base wad with our low-powder-levels in cowboy loads.

 

Rem STS hulls don't show those problems. Especially now that I use a ClayBuster Lightning wad (CB4100-12B), too.

 

And, yes, the last station on the Grabber should shape a factory-style rounded edge to the crimp. But it's not very aggressive. I use an RCBS factory "finish crimp" die to do more rounding of the edge of the crimp. In fact, that die (made for use on the RCBS Mini Grand, but can be fit to other loaders) might allow you to rework the swollen crimps as a "repair" to all the shells you already have made up.

http://www.rcbs.com/Products/Presses-and-Kits/Shotshell/Mini-Grand-Taper-Crimp-Die.aspx

 

PS - yes, this web page only shows a 20 gauge version that can be ordered. But I believe they botched the web site. I ordered a 12 gauge taper crimp die from them 5 years ago and have been quite pleased with it. Call them to order!

 

Good luck, GJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ran into the same problem loading Federal target hulls with 3/4 oz of shot & the pink Winchester wad (the wad bag says 1 to 1-1/8 oz...um, no way). There just wasn't enough space for the crimp to "seal". After about 3 weeks in the box, the crimp would mushroom & shells wouldn't go into the shell checker. Switching back to the white Claybusters 1-1/8 wad with 7/8 oz of shot solved the problem.

 

Holler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like you need to shorten the stack a bit. A tight crimp will hold for a while, but not forever, with a tight load.

This. That solved my problem with the AA hulls. I use Claybuster CB1100-12 (pink) wads and 7/8 oz shot.

 

Run the ones with the loose crimps through the final crimp die station a day or two before shooting.

 

There are enough once-fired hulls in the buckets at our range so that's all I use anymore. As Joe said, after two loadings they're pretty worthless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm reloading AA's that have been inspected and in good shape..

but... maybe too many reloads (4 -5) on them.. I'll consider that next time..

 

My crimp is not coming apart and loosing shot.. just kind of a mushrooming at the top edge if the crimp..

The Wadcutters I'm using indicate 7/8ths. oz. of shot.. that's what I'm using..

 

What do you mean when you say "Shorten the stack"?

 

Thanks for the replies boys..

 

Rance ;)

Still thinkin' this one over..

Still need all the advice I can get...

 

Edit: They are kept in my basement where it's dry...

I've kept them there for some 8 years since I started reloading shotshells..

Never a problem..

 

Re Edit: Yer right GJ.. Claybuster wads instead of Wadcutters... Geesh.. How could I get that wrong..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rance,

 

make sure that you are throwing the right powder with your wad,

if the amount of powder it too much for the wad, or you are using too much lead,

and you are getting the shell to close - then you are likely setting the wad with

too much force. there is a setting on the machine for this.

 

sadly i loaded a 5 gallon bucket of sporting clay rounds with the wad compressed too much

and all of them mushroomed like yours. got the right wad setting, probably change sonething
else, all is good. the good news is that i had more practice ammo!

 

call mec, those guys are as helpful as Dillon!

 

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shortened the stack this way.

 

If you compare white, gray and pink hulls, they're the same overall height. The difference is the height of the shot cup and "pillar" underneath. Bigger cup, shorter "pillar". White wads are for 1 1/8 oz, pink are 1 oz, gray are 7/8. If you put a little less shot in the cup, the load doesn't fill all the way to the top of the cup petals, thus shortening the overall stack height (powder + wad + shot. That's why I put 7/8 oz in a 1 oz wad cup (pink). When the hull is crimped, the top of the petals give with the crimp.

 

Keep in mind that if you put too little shot in a cup, such as 7/8 oz in a white wad, your crimp will cave in.

 

Of course if you use less powder, that will shorten the stack height as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm reloading AA's that have been inspected and in good shape..

but... maybe too many reloads (4 -5) on them.. I'll consider that next time..

 

My crimp is not coming apart and loosing shot.. just kind of a mushrooming at the top edge if the crimp..

The Wadcutters I'm using indicate 7/8ths. oz. of shot.. that's what I'm using..

 

What do you mean when you say "Shorten the stack"?

 

Thanks for the replies boys..

 

Rance ;)

Still thinkin' this one over..

Still need all the advice I can get...

 

Edit: They are kept in my basement where it's dry...

I've kept them there for some 8 years since I started reloading shotshells..

Never a problem..

 

Re Edit: Yer right GJ.. Claybuster wads instead of Wadcutters... Geesh.. How could I get that wrong..

Rance -

 

The powder, wad, and shot all add up to a certain length. If you compress the wad too much, then your "stack" or load column is too long, and the pressure will work on the crimp and/or the weaker places in the hull. The answer, if this is the case, is to use a shorter wad, or less powder, or less shot, or a case with more capacity.

 

CR

 

edit: looks like I type too slow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't have some crimps that push the petals open, you probably are not seating with too much wad pressure. If your load data is all correct, you shouldn't have too much pressure, either.

 

You can read the wad seating pressure you get while seating the wad from the pressure indicator. Look up above where you set the the wad into the wad guide. The nickel-plated wad rammer has a set of pound markings and a black pointer. The tip of the pointer rises up to show the pressure. Look at it with handle fully down. You don't need much pressure at all on modern wads. Even 30 pounds may be too much, if the AA cases are soft enough to give way and start to let pressure out.

 

How does the crimp look in the middle, after you finish? Do the petals all meet evenly in the middle, or a slight open hole, or a swirled shape to the petals?

You want crimp starting height and finish crimp height set so that you get the "meet in middle" shape. Crimps too high will give the open hole (or even a sunken appearance), and crimps too low give the swirled petals and when really low, the crimp bulges up.

 

Good luck, GJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I originally reloaded all these cases of shells (approx. 2-3 cases)

I only had about 2 boxes of what I would call junk/practice shells..

The rest had no mushrooming on the crimp area..

No tight spots on the sides..

No bulging anywhere..

Just a bunch of great reloaded ammo..

 

I have noticed going back through the reloads with my size checker..

That the "once" shot hulls (I can tell by the looks and how clean they are) have held shape better..

It might be more of the proverbial "Too many times reloaded" problem..

 

Rance. ;)

Thinkin I'll go check some more I reckon..

 

For what it's worth.. All these shells swelled/mushroomed or whatever..

Still go into my SxS.. Who knew??

 

Edit: thanks GJ. I was told a few years back about the wad pressure when I first started reloading

Shotgun shells.. That was a culprit I fought when I first started ..but Rio Brazo's? Straightened me

out on that..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, about 5-15% of current production factory loaded Win AA's won't pass a gauge check right out of the box!

 

One more possible indicator that those hulls that loaded well at the factory (and may have 100% passed Winchester's quality assurance checks at factory), are now "puffing out" after a few months sitting around on the truck and the store shelf.

 

Now I'm not a plastics engineer by any means, but that is something that could be happening if the hulls are too soft. One more reason to keep me using Rem STS hulls. :D

 

Good luck, GJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..

What do you mean when you say "Shorten the stack"?

 

Wad height is part of it, as others have noted go to a shorter wad (and or less powder / and or less shot), but you can usually fix it with a shorter wad, or as GJ noted Rem STS hulls. I used to have both of my Mecs set to use either hull, with the STS they were near perfect.....the AAs still had a little pin hole not near enough for the shot to fall out. With the new AA two piece hulls I've had to change things to where now I get a little larger hole in the AAs and a slight inward crimp with the STS :wacko: but we shoot alota BP so I can't always be choosie with the AAs ;) . For BP I use the BPI short wads. Good Luck :)

 

. One more reason to keep me using Rem STS hulls. :D

 

Good luck, GJ

Yep :D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok pards.. take this for what it's worth.. which ain't much...

 

I got into a case of reloads that I keep in a cabinet that

is kinda' my "Big Match Ammo" (was gonna check it last)

 

I checked about 4-5 boxes..

They are all "once fired" reloaded shotgun shells.. (still AA's)

They all still have a nice tight crimp.. no mushrooming

and no swelling down the sides..

 

My thoughts only is like GJ said... Shell (plastic) fatigue..

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin' it's time to go through my empties and throw away a bunch of them...

Thanks to all you pards for your idea's and info you gave me..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had some several times reloaded AA open up on me while in the trunk at a hot summer annual one weekend.

 

I have a bucket full of many time reloaded AAs I should deal with as well, maybe I'll see if one of the local BP shooters wants them. Should be good for one more loading though might take a dab of glue to keep them closed.

 

I bought a few hundred once fired STS hulls, like them much better than the AAs, get more consistent crimps and completed shells with them. That said I got some newer once fired AAs from a pard and those have loaded decently.

 

Since I had those open up on me I don't load as far ahead as I used to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a practice of letting my reloaded shotgun shells sit on my reloading bench for a week before I case check them. I stand them up so that there is no strain or pressure on the sides of the shell. Almost any hull will run through the chamber checker right off the press. I've found that a few of the reloaded shells tend to "move" a little after they have been setting. Some have a small bulge on the sides and others might have a crimp that is coming out or other problems. Generally, if the plastic in a reloaded shell is going to deform from its shape out of the press it will happen in a week.

 

Those that don't pass the chamber check in a weeks time are run back through my shot shell final crimp stage. I'll run the press down all the way, then rotate the shell 120 degrees and repeat and then another 120 degrees and repeat. Then I’ll let those sit on my bench for another week and chamber check them again. If they don’t pass that chamber check then I put them in my Wild Bunch shot shell box.

It's good when you can get a little help with this task too ;)

Kajun

0AA8E6FA-1ACB-4465-A6DD-9E67955B7117.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.