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Hoss

Gorilla gun

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Who else has wondered what they shot the gorilla with?

 

Not wanting to get into the politics of the incident in Cincinnati, I was just wondering what sort of gun a zoo would keep on hand for situations like this. Would obviously have to be large caliber, I'm thinking a Marlin 45-70 guide gun? That would be sufficient for anything except elephants or rhinos I would think.

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Local Zoo here last time I knew (had a buddy that worked there) had a Savage 99 in .303 Savage. Same local zoo has had 2 workers killed by big cats over the years but not sure if they were put down with the rifle.

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Zoo in Dallas/Fort Worth has a 375 H&H and a 458 Win Mag.

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Zoo in Dallas/Fort Worth has a 375 H&H and a 458 Win Mag.

 

Well, yes, but we are talking about Texas gorillas, not them puny Ohio gorillas. :blink:

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A few years ago the escape team from a nearby zoo were at the range where I shoot. They were practicing with a .458 Winchester Mag. Just a few shots each was all of the practice they wanted that day! :wacko:

 

Blackfoot

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A 458 Win mag would do the trick on anything! 500 grn bullet at 2000 ft/sec. I think it would hurt, no matter what end of the rifle you were standing on!

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Interesting question. As a kid in growng up in the midwest (50) they had a runaway elephant running amok on the streets of town. Cops were shooting their 38 and surprise, surprise the thing kept going. Biggest thing they cold find was a 375 at some sporting good store and they did get the thing put down after many more shots.

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Well, yes, but we are talking about Texas gorillas, not them puny Ohio gorillas. :blink:

 

Harambe was a 17 year old Western Lowland Gorilla and he weighed 400-450 lbs. He was born in the U.S. at the Gladys Porter Zoo in Brownsville, Texas and raised for years by a (today) very distressed keeper, Jerry Stones, there in Texas. Harambe was later placed at the Cincinnati Zoo and was killed there.

 

This entire event was a senseless tragedy, any way you look at it. The only bright spot is that the kid emerged with a bump on his head and a few scrapes.

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So, it was a Texas gorilla! Reckon why they didn't just dart the creature?

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Reckon why they didn't just dart the creature?

Because darts take time for the drug to kick in and the perceived need was immediate.

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So, it was a Texas gorilla! Reckon why they didn't just dart the creature?

It's said, because a tranquilizer dart would have antagonized/angered him and taken 5+ minutes to immobilize him, not to mention that a miss might have struck the kid.

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Procedures are in place for most emergencies at well run public facilities so that they can be followed when adrenaline is running high, parents are screaming, government officials are calling, etc. They are designed to prevent bad decisions from being made due to the panic that most emergencies create in the general population of any society.

 

Procedures at the zoo sound like they were followed well. That is a success.

 

Some adjustment of procedures may be needed at that zoo, and other zoos may be adjusting some of their procedures as a part of "lessons learned." That is a success.

 

There was little time to have entered into public debate about what to do when the kid was down in the enclosure with the gorilla. Good planning and good performance to the plan resulted in a reasonably good outcome from a horrible situation regardless of what the "root cause" was. That, overall, is a success.

 

Was the fencing/moating/separation adequate and up to standards of other zoos? Possibly not. That will be reviewed and if justified, will probably be improved. "Better late than never" could be that conclusion.

 

If you want perfection, you are living on the wrong planet.

 

Good luck, GJ

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It's said, because a tranquilizer dart would have antagonized/angered him and taken 5+ minutes to immobilize him, not to mention that a miss might have struck the kid.

Fair enough, but what about a miss with the rifle???

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Howdy Hoss,

With this crew you are going to get more heat than light.

I doubt caliber is going to be put on the air.

Consider your post hijacked and go back to cleanin your rifle.

Best

CR

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Howdy Hoss,

With this crew you are going to get more heat than light.

I doubt caliber is going to be put on the air.

Consider your post hijacked and go back to cleanin your rifle.

Best

CR

All is good CR. It certainly was a bad happening all around.

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I hope the Zoo sends the parents a bill to replace the gorilla and the shells fired from the gun that killed it. While it was a tragedy that the gorilla had to be killed, it was because of the mother's negligence in closely monitoring her 3 year old son that allowed the son to get into the gorilla enclosure.

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I suppose child endangerment, child abuse, killing of an endangered animal, endangerment of others and who knows what all other laws that are currently on the books could be brought onto the mother if it goes to court and a convictions is made. Not counting replacement of gorilla and restitution to the zoo for damages. Just not a good thing, all the way around.

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dollar to a donut the mother sues the zoo for emotional distress for herself and her son!

 

My Take:

I've raised 4 kids. While mom should have watched closer. 3 year olds can get away pretty quickly!

The zoo had what they thought was adequate barrier. Obviously was not.

The zookeeper did the right thing in shooting the gorilla. Snap decision, no time to "think it over" or have a meeting. I'm sure whomever made the decision is second guessing themselves. they shouldn't. The child's life comes first.

the only innocent party in the whole deal is dead. Harambe was just doing what gorillas do.

In round numbers, about 10 children were killed in the US in the time it took me to type this post. That's the real tragedy.

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Local Zoo here last time I knew (had a buddy that worked there) had a Savage 99 in .303 Savage. Same local zoo has had 2 workers killed by big cats over the years but not sure if they were put down with the rifle.

I'd think a 303 would be a little light.

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If a zookeeper asked me, I would recommend a 12-gage pump slug for anything under 50 yards and a Marlin .45-70 for shots at 51 to 200 yards. Unless the shooter is an experienced African hunter, shots on wild African ceitters beyond 200 yards are a liability with a pinch of hope and luck.

The 12-gage slug would carry signicant power and have less potential to ricochet.

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A 458 Win mag would do the trick on anything! 500 grn bullet at 2000 ft/sec. I think it would hurt, no matter what end of the rifle you were standing on!

Maims on one end and kills on the other.

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No comment.

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WDM Bell killed over 1,000 Elephants using mostly 7X57mm Mauser and 6.5X54 rifles. http://chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm

I seriously doubt that the zoo has anyone on staff that is as a good of a shot as Bell. The zoo probably had a shotgun firing slugs or a 300 or 338 mag rifle.

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I was on a bear hunt up in Maine a few years back where a hunter wounded a 300 pound black bear. The bear fell into a jumble of rocks and couldn't climb out. The guide took a 12g shot gun with a slug and shot it right in the chest. I was standing not ten feet from the guide and he was not 20 feet from the bear. The bear didn't flinch. I ran to the truck and got my 270 Winchester and shot it in the head. Killing it. Upon skinning the bear we found the slug had hit the breast bone, flattened out to the size of a silver dollar and moved up under the skin over the chest.

 

That guide now carries a large caliber rifle.........

 

I've heard many stories from other guides about 12g slugs failing to stop big animals. Nope....not my first choice any longer

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Fair enough, but what about a miss with the rifle???

Depending on the shooter, the firearm is intrinsically far more accurate than a compressed gas dart launcher, with its clumsy fluid-filled, short range dart. Sure, the firearm could miss also, but have a look at the last line of GJ's Reply #12.

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If you have small kids, and can not control them, do not take them to Grand Canyon where shere drop offs of hundreds of feet can be found at viewer points w/o full caged protection barriers

 

nor Yellowstone Park. where boiling water & mud are inches from unprotected walkways.

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I hope the Zoo sends the parents a bill to replace the gorilla and the shells fired from the gun that killed it. While it was a tragedy that the gorilla had to be killed, it was because of the mother's negligence in closely monitoring her 3 year old son that allowed the son to get into the gorilla enclosure.

+1000

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Fair enough, but what about a miss with the rifle???

Add 5 seconds to the score.

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Anyone could look around or to the side and have a child step through that totally inadequate barrier. Zoo will be lucky if they don't lose in court

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Anyone could look around or to the side and have a child step through that totally inadequate barrier. Zoo will be lucky if they don't lose in court

 

I've heard that the somewhat low barrier fence and the thick bushes at the zoo has been in place for 38 years (edit) with never even a known attempt to go over the fence and through the bushes.

 

The kid repeatedly told his mother that he wanted to go into the enclosure and play with the gorilla, then disappeared. This family group obviously had a history of allowing their brats(s) to run wild. I doubt that their family dynamic resembles that of a family who responsibly manages the behavior of their offspring. The brat went where he didn't belong because by omission of proper socialization, the instilling of respect for others and society at large, the lack of the learning of responsibility and having punitive consequences imposed for disobedience and bad decisions....the parents ARE responsible....x10! This bunch are all responsible and don't really meet the test for being a "normal" family. The brat did what it wanted, because he's learned by the age of 3 that the rules don't apply to him.

 

So, yeah I think they have a financial liability to the Zoo for its sad loss.

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Was the parenting adequate and up to standards? Possibly not. That will be reviewed? - we can only hope.

 

If you want perfection, you are living on the wrong planet.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

GJ, Here is a suggested change in your post.....

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Tell you what, don't write for me and I'll return the favor.

 

:lol:

 

I might agree with your conclusion, but I don't have facts or authority to be judging "even the least of these."

 

There may be lots of back story here. Jumping quickly to public shaming is not what I'd intentionally do, though.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I was on a bear hunt up in Maine a few years back where a hunter wounded a 300 pound black bear. The bear fell into a jumble of rocks and couldn't climb out. The guide took a 12g shot gun with a slug and shot it right in the chest. I was standing not ten feet from the guide and he was not 20 feet from the bear. The bear didn't flinch. I ran to the truck and got my 270 Winchester and shot it in the head. Killing it. Upon skinning the bear we found the slug had hit the breast bone, flattened out to the size of a silver dollar and moved up under the skin over the chest.

 

That guide now carries a large caliber rifle.........

 

I've heard many stories from other guides about 12g slugs failing to stop big animals. Nope....not my first choice any longer

When I worked in Alaska we carried "BRI" slugs. basically a steel hour glass shaped slug in a sabot. Had great penetration, no expansion.

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A very experienced shooter who puts on one of the local steel shoots had previously helped the zoo staff sight in a .375 H&H rifle. He said they also have a twelve gauge shotgun. He doesn't know what they used or whether they have other guns available.

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