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Warden Callaway

Starting an active retirement home for abused and neglected old double shotguns.

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My collection of old double barrel shotguns keep growing. I picked up two more in past couple of days.

 

The top on is a Hunter Arms 12 guage. It's a higher grade gun with some engraving. The gun is tight and good condition except for the barrels. There is one significant dent about midway and a dozen small dents at regular spacing. Also there is an upsweep in the barrels.

 

The coach gun is Hopkins and Allen hammer gun - model 100 I think. What a tortured life it must have had. The forend is not really a forend. It's a chunk of wood pinned onto the forend lug, there is a chunk of wood missing from the wrist area. The buttplate is homemade out of plexiglass. The action latch spring is broken or missing. And obviously the barrels have been cut.

 

I plan to make, buy or borrow a dent raising tool to take the dents out of the barrels on the Hunter. I've got some ideas of how to take the bow out of the barrels. If I can repair the barrels, I'll clean the old gun up. I suspect I'll find some nice wood under the awful varnish.

 

Finding forend iron will be critical in getting the old Hopkins and Allen shotgun back into shooting condition. The rest will be just labor.

 

There is no way these guns are worth paying someone to repair. But I enjoy working on old guns and am willing to take on a challenge. But it's just because of their neglected condition, I was able to buy them at flea market prices. The individual parts are worth many times what I paid for them.

Edited by Warden Callaway
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You, Sir, are preserving HISTORY.

 

THANK YOU!!

 

 

Waimea

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I know I've not invented anything new but it was my first experience at raising dents. I went slow and easy but it was amazing how well it worked.

 

I found that the tapered quill shank from the lathe drill chuck would drop into the bore until it hit a dent. I would bump it with dowl stick to get it under dent. Then take the brass hammer and lightly tap around the dent. The shank would loosen and I'd tap it a little further down and repeat. I went through both barrels like this and substantially removed the dents on first pass. I added one layer of tape to one side and repeated. I think I ended with four layers of tape.

 

Perfect not but a vast improvement and adequate. I hadn't bothered to clean the bores and I should have. After cleaning, I found that the bores are in remarkably good shape with no rust or pitting.

 

You can see a series of dark spots along the side of the barrels. These spots are where the dents were. Someone had taken steel wool and scrubbed of rust and any bluing that was left on the barrels and left the dark spots. I'll clean up these spots and cold blue or brown the barrels.

 

On test firing, I discovered the left firing pin was broken off. I'll likely repair it rather than try finding a replacement. I have both firing pins out so I have one to reference.

 

Investigation leads me to think the gun is a Hunter Arms Gladiator - an upgraded model sold through Sears.

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It's like finding hidden treasure. I had the Hunter Arms taken apart to repair firing pin so I decided to strip the orange varnish off the wood. When I first looked at the gun I suspected the wood may have had figure. The picture does not do it justice. Turn the stock in sunlight and amber tones reflect from it. That's just one coat of Tru-Oil.

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"The coach gun is Hopkins and Allen hammer gun - model 100 I think. What a tortured life it must have had. The forend is not really a forend. It's a chunk of wood pinned onto the forend lug, there is a chunk of wood missing from the wrist area. The buttplate is homemade out of plexiglass. The action latch spring is broken or missing. And obviously the barrels have been cut."

I have a beautiful Parker 10ga with the forend replaced as you describe. I do not know how common this was, but I have had no luck with a replacement. Good luck to you.

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The gun is nicely engraved. Unfortunately, the right side of the receiver is covered with light pitting that pretty much obliterates the scene on that side.

 

The fit and finish on these old guns never cease to amaze me. The internal parts are of top quality. If not abused, these old guns were ment to give several lifetikes of service.

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Well guys, I wish I could afford a TTN. I had to settle for a copy.

 

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Mine says Colt Pt F A Mfg Co on each side.

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I'm 5 deep in shotgun projects at this time. I keep telling Mary I'll save them up to work on in the winter but I'll get one out and do a little something.

 

Last week I found a forend for the Hopkins and Allen. It's the right forend but wrong gauge. It works but the lines don't match along the sides of the action. It still needs a lever return spring. And a lot of cosmetic work.

 

I bought a Stevens 235 disassembled in a box at flie market prices. It needed a lot of cleaning up, a left hammer, firing pins and buttstock. Last week I located the firing pins and left hammer. Still needs a buttstock.

 

The Colt needs a top lever spring, some forend latch parts and some replacement screws. It has a recent new buttstock with some nice figure but left lock still needs to be inlaid a little deeper.

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I like your twice barreled double shoot guns there, Warden.

 

I've picked up a few old ones myself. I've developed a real liking for them since I started playing this game. I have a Parker 10 gauge, a Wyco Hammerless and a Sears version of a 311.

 

I have my Stoeger for matches.

 

I also have a Rossi Overland 26" 20 and a JW-2000 that I had before I started playing.

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Mary and I went on an adventure looking for parts for three old shotguns and ended up rescuing yet another old shotgun. I shot from the hip on this one. It was a gun I'd only seen pictures of and definitely wasn't American made. It was marked W Richards. I could only hope it was a real Westley Richards. I did look at proof marks and to best memory and limited experience, it was an English made gun - not Belgin. I got it for a price that it didn't matter if it wasn't a Westley Richards.

 

Both side plates are marked W Richards. The top rib in marked W Richards London Laminated Steel. In my limited research there were several English gun makers using the name of W Richards. There were also Belgin made knockoffs. The gun is proofed with Birmingham proof marks but those too have been faked.

 

The gun has light engraving on all parts - even the screw heads under the forend. What I feared was some brazing in front of the hinge is actually some gilding of somekind. The wood is solid and the gun is 99% complete and everything functions as it should. The only thing missing is an inlay in the tip of the forend.

 

One thing you notice right off is that it's a side lever action. 12 gauge.

 

All it needs is a good cleaning and a little tightening at hinge.

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I am starting to think, I should establish a warm, semi-climate controlled, dry home for the Old and Neglected double guns up here in the frozen north. I think I may just prowl around Pennsyltuckey and see what I can find. The wood on that hunter is just gorgeous and the W Richards is rather nice nice. However, it is a shame you had to settle for that imitation of a TTN. If it really starts to bother ya, that your Colt built imitation TTN just isn't an authentic TTN, (snicker) I would be willing to consider it for my home for wayward shotguns. Provisionally of course.

:)

 

Coffinmaker

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker

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They had a Colt 1878 under glass at Ahlmans in Minnesota. They wanted $2700 for it. They wouldn't take the parts off I need for mine.

 

They had a dozen old double barrel shotguns but none wanted to come home with me.

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How Rude. You'd think they would share with someone who was actually going to play with one. No sense of propriety at all. Humpff.

 

Coffinmaker

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Mary and I went on an adventure looking for parts for three old shotguns and ended up rescuing yet another old shotgun. I shot from the hip on this one. It was a gun I'd only seen pictures of and definitely wasn't American made. It was marked W Richards. I could only hope it was a real Westley Richards. I did look at proof marks and to best memory and limited experience, it was an English made gun - not Belgin. I got it for a price that it didn't matter if it wasn't a Westley Richards.

 

Both side plates are marked W Richards. The top rib in marked W Richards London Laminated Steel. In my limited research there were several English gun makers using the name of W Richards. There were also Belgin made knockoffs. The gun is proofed with Birmingham proof marks but those too have been faked.

 

The gun has light engraving on all parts - even the screw heads under the forend. What I feared was some brazing in front of the hinge is actually some gilding of somekind. The wood is solid and the gun is 99% complete and everything functions as it should. The only thing missing is an inlay in the tip of the forend.

 

One thing you notice right off is that it's a side lever action. 12 gauge.

 

All it needs is a good cleaning and a little tightening at hinge.

Hate to burst your bubble, but what you have is, indeed, a Belgian knock-off. Westley Richards guns are always signed just that way, "Westley Richards", in full, no "W." It has English proofs because it was sold in England. If no Belgian proofs, probably imported as parts and assembled in "Old Blighty".

Pics of proof marks?

Edited by Red Hooker

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Hate to burst your bubble, but what you have is, indeed, a Belgian knock-off. Westley Richards guns are always signed just that way, "Westley Richards", in full, no "W." It has English proofs because it was sold in England. If no Belgian proofs, probably imported as parts and assembled in "Old Blighty".

Pics of proof marks?

Bubble not busted. I bought the gun at a wall hanger price. Except for wear of the years, it's in great shape. I'll try to post pictures of proof marks. They appear to be Birmingham but well could be fake. I suspect a lot of shotguns - even those of best names in USA - were made of parts from Belgium or other European countries.

 

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Edited by Warden Callaway

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Well guys, I wish I could afford a TTN. I had to settle for a copy. 20160607_173800_zpsosaat3fb.jpg

Mine says Colt Pt F A Mfg Co on each side.

I'm making progress at getting the old Colt double back on line. I made a new top latch spring, made a bolt part for the forend latch and got the detent working. I found a new side plate screw but had to cut it down and reduce the head diameter. I pulled the firing pins and turned off the mushroomed ends. I just stepped out and popped off a couple of primers. It's complete and working.

 

Maybe this winter I'll make a new forend and checker the buttstock and forend.

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Guess what? Another old shotgun needed to come home with me. This one is a Remington 1889 10 gauge. Numbers match, wood is original but has been refinished. It has a couple of minor, easy to fix at no real cost problems. It'll be hard to let it set knowing it needs attention.

 

Making the rounds today I came across two really nice hammer doubles but they were in really nice shape and already have a good home.

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My amigo Tequila Vaquero has one just like it every once in a while he drags it out for a round of trap, He seems to always draw a crowd everyone is impressed even if he misses.

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Here's my pair of 1889 Remingtons. Top one is the 10 gauge. It weighs in at 8-3/4 pounds. The 12 gauge at 7-3/4 pounds.

 

I shot the 10 gauge a bit ago. It's choked tight. Right barrel shot about a 10" pattern at 12 steps. The left, more like 6". I might have to back up 10 yards just to hit a knockdown.

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It took me most of two weeks of hobby time to get the stock repaired on the LC Smith 10 gauge. This gun lives up to the LC Smith legion. Every part is so hard a common file just skids off. It's tight and solid. I think it's my favorite. For now anyway. I shot it some today. I'll be shooting it in next match. No 15 second stages but I don't care.

Edited by Warden Callaway

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I have one of those Hunter Arms guns that was made for Sears and sold as a "Ranger" which was Sears' trade name. Mine is not engraved, but the case colors on the action are as good as new. Until I got it, when I started SASS shooting and needed a double, I don't think it had ever been used much, just stashed in some rancher's closet. It is one great shooting old shotgun, and has accounted for a few Texas Pheasants since it came home with me. Unfortunately, I am "shotgun poor" right now and don't have room for any more...Unless I get one heck of a deal!

 

Duffield

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I brought another old double home today. This one a Stevens 235 16 gauge. I'd rather it had been a 12 gauge but I just couldn't leave it. Well, I did leave it but after going to two other gunshops, I decided to go back for it.

 

It is suffering from a a hairline fracture in the grip area behind the top tang. An easy repair. A little cleaning wouldn't hurt.

 

I bought a box of Magtech brass hulls to feed it.

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I shot the Stevens 235 in the match last weekend and it did its job. But the 16 gauge was the odd gun in my collection - all others being 12s and 10s.

 

Today there was a small gunshow in a small town south of us. I took the Stevens for trading. If I brought it back home, I'd be ok with that. There was only about 30 tables at the show but all were older guns. Only $3 to get in.

 

I visited wiht a couple of old curmudgeons who knew their double guns and both liked 16 gauge but neither needed another. I went around again and caught the attention of a guy at a table. Long story short, we came to a trade that we were happy with.

 

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The old shotgun is marked "Leader" but is one of some 400 trade names used by Crescent Arms. It's 12 gauge with very nice bores with barrels made of "Armory steel". It should be made for smokeless loads but likey for 2-1/2" shells. Not a problem as I have brass hulls and can roll crimp plastic.

 

It has two minor problems I can fix - it's a bit loose on the hinge and the forend is cracked. But otherwise it's in good working order, the numbers match and it has a lot of blueing and some faded color case.

 

Best of all, I got another project gun that didn't increase my total population or require any extra money spent.

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When I took the lock plates off what I thought was a Crescent Arms double, I knew I had misidentified it. It looked strangely familiar. It was a Hopkins and Allen.

 

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The lower gun is also a Hopkins and Allen of the same model. It's pretty decrepit and its barrels already cropped. Hummm? What's the possibilities this set of barrels would fit the new gun in good shape?

 

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They actually fit better than the original set that needed to be put back on face. I did set the transplanted tubes back tight on face. But I also chamfered the chamders. The chambers are smooth enough to shuck my BlackMZ loads in roll crimped AA hulls.

 

I plan to shoot it in tomorrow's match.

 

The gun has steel barrels of the smokeless era but looks to have the old 2-1/2 chambers and virtually no forcing cones. I'm going to ask my cowboy gunsmith buddy to recut them for modern 2-3/4" ammo.

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Hey Warden,

 

Nice looking old Hopkins and Allen. I'll have to get to the match early and check it out.

 

Just Got a new AIC Winchester 1897 so will relegate the 1921 Ithaca Flores to backup status. Which makes my 20 ga Western Fields go to backup backup status.

 

I think I am going to be a little faster with the 1897 but the sxs guns are best at "looking the part" aren't they?

 

Dr O. R.

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Dr did well with his new 97 today. Maybe he got a little wild and crazy on stage 6 - changing it from a 6 shot to an 8 shot stage. :P

 

I was real pleased with with my Hopkins and Allen put together gun. It did its part and went bang every time I asked it to. I should have taken a bore swab and cleaned the chambers between stages. It would shuck the first two hulls but not always the second. (I was shooting loads loaded with BlackMZ.)

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Can you believe this! Mary and I went on a fall drive-about on Tuesday. Our destination was Liberty Missouri. We stopped in at the James Country Mercantile. A SASS affiliated merchant. http://www.jamescountry.com He has a fair number of cowboy handguns - many cap guns. But I spotted two double barrel shotguns on the wall - both marked "Wallhanger". The break open was a wallhanger. Lots of problems. The second was a percussion 12 gauge. It had been hanging on someone's wall a long time. It is a Hewson made in London.

 

I wasn't especially interested in it but my son builds percussion shotguns and rifles and he was wanting to build a double barrel shotgun. I took pictures and looked at it better. I sent the pictures and assessment to Chris. Well, it wasn't all bad. 100% complete. Locks worked. It was worth the asking price in parts alone.

 

Long story short, I bought it for my son.

 

I've pulled the nipples and they came right out, no problem. I flushed, brushed the bores and mopped them out. I dropping a small light down the bores. SHAZAM!, they are in good shape. I can see a lot of bright and no heavy pitting.

 

There are 3 small dents in the right barrel and one in the left to deal with but I expect this could be a shooter.

Edited by Warden Callaway

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Looks like it's going to be a long winter. But I've got plenty to do. I've hip deep in shotgun project guns. I need parts for most of them before I can get them off the operating tabe.

 

Let's see...

 

C G Bonehill - needs barrels

Parker Bros DH - needs barrels

Stevens 235 - still needs buttstock

Stevens 225 - needs forend, hammers, ejector lever

Hunter Arms Fulton - needs barrels refinished

Hopkins and Allen - needs second set of barrels put on face

 

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I picked up a super nice set of Remington 1900 Demarcus barrels buy don't have a gun to put them on.

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Luckily, I ended up with my great grandfathers Parker 8 gauge. It has a custom 4-1/4" chamber. We have always treated our firearms with great care so it is in really great shape despite having a myriad of rounds through it.

 

I only have a limited number of 4-1/4" brass shells but, since it is no longer legal for cranes, ducks and geese, that's no problem

 

I used to take it to a match once in a while along with my two original .41 Long Colt Thunderers as a joke but haven't done that for a few years.

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Don't have a photograph but just gave room and board to a really nice Husquavarna M51 Hammer Double. 12Ga, mile long barrels. I will bob the barrels. Chokes are full and full. At cowboy distance, pattern would be about the diameter of a quarter. The gun is almost "new" tight. It's going to be fun.

 

Coffinmaker

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Don't have a photograph but just gave room and board to a really nice Husquavarna M51 Hammer Double. 12Ga, mile long barrels. I will bob the barrels. Chokes are full and full. At cowboy distance, pattern would be about the diameter of a quarter. The gun is almost "new" tight. It's going to be fun.

 

Coffinmaker

I also have a Husky 51. Please let me what you do with hammer springs in yours.

Thanks

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Yusta B,

 

I hadn't actually planned to do much if anything with the Main Springs. I just plan to cock em with both thumbs. I'd think about doing something with them if I knew where to get a replacement set in case of "oops." Not that I've ever had an OOPS problem. I may have to ask Husquavarna if they still make springs for the M-51.

 

Coffinmaker

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