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Parson John Tourmann, #67768

Shooting brass 12 ga BP ?

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PM Lefty Dude or Beartrap, they can probably answer your questions.

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I only do 12 ga. brass! I started with the Magtec from BPI, and came across a ammo can of UMC brass once fired! Takes a bit longer to load then smokeless, but its routine now! I use a MEC press to drop, and insert wads by hand, then a RCBS die set to slightly roll crimp then a bead od Duco glue to secure the overshot card! Here's a video link of me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFdAHWvyR98

 

Oh, and its a literal blast to shoot them!

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You can adjust your "stack height" by using more or less wad material. I load some 12 gauge with one 1/2" fiber wad and split a second one to add another 1/4". I've also use cornmeal filler.

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I use the magtech brass. deprime with antique deprimer I found (can use punch) prime on press using 12 g shell holder. dip BP sub in. Nitro over powder card. fiber wad. pack It down tight with rammer (wood dowel works fine. dip shot in. over shot card. elmers glue.

 

takes some time, I just use them for BP or subs. You can get the wad and cards from Track of the Wolf.

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Old%20reloading%20tools_zpsqebjz6ym.jpg

 

I found a nest of antique loading tools last winter. I've used the primer seating tool to load 209 primers in plastic hulls I cut and roll crimp.

 

I've loaded a few 10 gauge brass hulls using improvised tools. I recently bought a box of Magtech 12 gauge hulls. I've not loaded them yet.

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I use Hammer double which is Magtech modified to take a 209. I use them occasionally. Lee load all and RCBS die. A bit more work I suppose.

 

They don't shuck quite as easy as plastic.

 

As above I use smokeless

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PM Major Art Tillery. He loads them a lot, and he wrote and article in the Chronicle on how to do it a while back

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The definitive resource loading black powder shotgun shells. Scroll down the web pages to the 3 page 'How To' detail about loading solid brass shells

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Edited by John Boy

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This guy talks a bit funny but gives a pretty good tutorial on loading brass shotgun hulls.

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Larry Potterfield loading 10 gauge brass hulls with antique tools.

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Ditto on contacting Major. He did write a very complete article on this which takes all the guesswork out of loading brass 12 gauge BP ammo. I have seen him shoot nothing but brass 12 gauge ammo during a match and he does it very well. Durn smooth. He generously loaned me some of his ammo to try and even with just the four or six shots that I tried I was addicted. There is something very unique about 12 gauge BP brass ammo through a hammered double. It does feel different pulling it from your belt and loading it as opposed to regular 12 gauge ammo.

 

Blue Mesa is another shooter whom I have seen use nothing but brass shotgun ammo. I believe he has been doing this for quite some time and he is very very good with it.

 

Brass 12 gauge ammo certainly looks pretty darn cool in your shotgun belt; it grabs a lot of attention. Reloading it is just a little bit more time consuming but apparently well worth the effort.

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Lots and Lots of All Brass 12Ga. Kind of like All Bran. Really good fun stuff. I use my Drill Press as my de-prime and prime press, Every thing else by hand. Made myself a Maple loading block for 30 cases. Magtec Brass and Large Pistol primers. Work a treat. I do not use any kind of crimp.

 

Lefty Dude and several others over on the CAS City forum gave me the information to get started. All Brass is a Hoot!!!

 

Coffinmaker

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker

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They be all I use.

Ditto.

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Be patient as most , if not all is hand work. Take you time, and load a few for test before you make a patch and have a product you do not like. After trying many loads I settled on a Lee powder dipper 3.1CC of Goex 3F under one once of shot. This is for 12 ga. all brass shells. I also use a plastic wad for my shot package, not compressed. The plastic wad does not blow a hole in the pattern.

 

I would post photos, but this board will not support the band width necessary to accept anything but Photo-Bucket. I will not use PB as I got a nasty virus from them several years back. I post photos on other forums fro my photo files.

Sealing the mouth is important, if it not done right you could have BB's running out the unfired barrel on re-coil.

Edited by Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223

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Don't step on your spent brass! Allow NO grease on the inside of the case at the over shot card location, hot melt glue gun to seal the over shot card. I'm using 11Ga. wads and cards inside 12Ga. brass.

Edited by BRUSHY BOB

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Have any of you wise old gentlemen ever have a problem with primers not going off after a couple of stages, I seem to be getting some fouling on the face where the firing pins are, like blow back and almost like the rim on the magtech shells is too thin, shooting a norinco hammered double which has no problem with plastic shells, any info would be helpful

Thanks

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I was doing shopping this morning and found MidwayUSA has RCBS 12 gauge dies and shell holder on sale.

 

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/296286/rcbs-cowboy-brass-shotshell-die-12-gauge

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/214811/rcbs-cowboy-shellholder-12-gauge-brass-case

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Got a couple questions please........

 

1. I have a cheap Lee Load All press that de-primes then primes in separate steps. Am wondering if this little press would de-prime the brass cases then re-prime them as well, I'm guessing it will work fine.

 

2. The Lee Load All also re-sizes the hulls by pressing a ring over the plastic hulls as it de-primes them, would this ring be adequate to resize the brass shells or would the cases be
"fire formed" as they are shot in the shotgun thus not requiring resizing each time?

 

3. I have the Cimmaron "Coach" gun with double hammers, would it make a difference if I used shells requiring the standard #209 shotgun primers or would the cases using the large pistol primers work just as well?

 

4. I could turn a ramrod on my lathe like the fellow in the video so am thinking I probably wouldn't need any additional tools assuming the Lee Load ALL would work as mentioned above, am I overlooking anything?

 

I watched the video in Wardens post where the English fellow was showing his process and it seems pretty straight forward but two 1/2" lubed wads seems like a lot of wadding, is that about typical?

 

Thanks

Edited by Deadeye George

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Got a couple questions please........

 

1. I have a cheap Lee Load All press that de-primes then primes in separate steps. Am wondering if this little press would de-prime the brass cases then re-prime them as well, I'm guessing it will work fine.

 

2. The Lee Load All also re-sizes the hulls by pressing a ring over the plastic hulls as it de-primes them, would this ring be adequate to resize the brass shells or would the cases be

"fire formed" as they are shot in the shotgun thus not requiring resizing each time?

 

3. I have the Cimmaron "Coach" gun with double hammers, would it make a difference if I used shells requiring the standard #209 shotgun primers or would the cases using the large pistol primers work just as well?

 

4. I could turn a ramrod on my lathe like the fellow in the video so am thinking I probably wouldn't need any additional tools assuming the Lee Load ALL would work as mentioned above, am I overlooking anything?

 

I watched the video in Wardens post where the English fellow was showing his process and it seems pretty straight forward but two 1/2" lubed wads seems like a lot of wadding, is that about typical?

 

Thanks

1, No. The Magtech brass uses large pistol primers. The depriming and priming station on the Lee Loadall is set up for 209 shotgun primers. I've primed brass hulls with large pistol primers by placing the primer on a piece of flat, smooth steel, placing the hull over the primer - aligning the primer with pocket - and then using wooden dowel to tap case onto primer.

 

2, I've never tried sizing brass hulls on the Lee press. I doubt if resizing will be necessary and I doubt if the Lee Loadall is stout enough to size brass hulls.

 

3. Should work just fine.

 

4. A 3/4" hardwood dowel would work just as well. I load charge, then over powder card. I slip a dowel about 6" long into hull and place hull and dowel under loading bench. I give a shove until I hear/feel powder crunch. Doesn't take much. Cushion wads, shot, top card do not require pressure.

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Will the RCBS 12 ga. Brass reloading die re-size the 12 ga. brass case ? The info states it will roll crimp, no mention of resizing.

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The Polish Pistolaro video show using the RCBS die set.

 

Frankly, I think most people can reload brass hulls with nearly no tools. A punch to knock out primer, a dowel and plate of steel to seat new one. Same dowel to seat over powder card.

 

 

Here is Bottom Dealing Mike aka duelist1954 demonstrating the nail and dowel method. Just substitute brass hull and large pistol primer.

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Taking the typical CAS target distances we shoot, Is there any significant difference between using a brass shell with wads versus a plastic shell with a plastic wad designed to fan out the shot to create a nice even pattern? I've heard that the thick 1/2" shot cushion wads can blow a hole in your shot pattern, has anyone ever experienced this?

 

I've been wanting to try these for some time and I think now is the time to order some supplies

 

Thanks for the info and ideas.

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I used the fiber wads originally, but have switched to the red shotgun wads. Pattern keeps tighter that way I think.

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Will the RCBS 12 ga. Brass reloading die re-size the 12 ga. brass case ? The info states it will roll crimp, no mention of resizing.

Loaded these with say APP maybe 8+ times, I have yet to resize any of them. I figure the low pressure of the BP sub never really gets them to expand to much. BUT DANG THEY ARE HOT TO PICK UP!

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You can check out an article I wrote for the Cowboy Chronicle April 2015... page 38. I have changed a few things like from the fiber wads to the red shotgun wads... but lots of good links and such. http://www.sassnet.com/CCArchive.php

Would those wads be the short red CB1138's?

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Be patient as most , if not all is hand work. Take you time, and load a few for test before you make a patch and have a product you do not like. After trying many loads I settled on a Lee powder dipper 3.1CC of Goex 3F under one once of shot. This is for 12 ga. all brass shells. I also use a plastic wad for my shot package, not compressed. The plastic wad does not blow a hole in the pattern.

 

I would post photos, but this board will not support the band width necessary to accept anything but Photo-Bucket. I will not use PB as I got a nasty virus from them several years back. I post photos on other forums fro my photo files.

Sealing the mouth is important, if it not done right you could have BB's running out the unfired barrel on re-coil.

I too found the fiber wads to blow a hole in the pattern of the shot switched to my normal wads and they shot great. I guess if I go back to bp I'll buy several hundred brass shells to load up they worked great in my old 87 also. Not so good in a 97

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I have been loading Brass SG's for now on to 7 or 8 years. I have found that by re-sizing the base with my MEC Super-Sizer each time my nitro cards fit tighter over the BP. . I load by using my hand tools, and have wondered how the RCBS dies would work, maybe I am missing something.

 

When I prepare new cases for the first time loading, I size the case with my 12 ga. Lee Loader and plastic mallet. Also prep the flash hole to proper size and ream the primer pocket. Both of which are usually not very well finished or of the proper size.

 

Just curious about the RCBS die.

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I bought the RCBS die set and am not greatly impressed. The resizing ring that screws into the die body has not had to do any work on my Magtech shells. The shaft that holds the decapping die is held in place by clips and they bent and came off the shaft so I am using the shaft to manually decap over the hole in my bench anvil. Not really worth the price, but that's just my opinion. I also have found that 1/2 " wads blow a hole in the pattern just about the size of 6-8" knockdowns. I put together a 1 oz square load , nitro card, shot and overshot card sealed with waterglass. Out of my Stoeger Coach, it holds a nice tight pattern at our distances which is the only thing I use them for.

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I have been loading Brass SG's for now on to 7 or 8 years. I have found that by re-sizing the base with my MEC Super-Sizer each time my nitro cards fit tighter over the BP. . I load by using my hand tools, and have wondered how the RCBS dies would work, maybe I am missing something.

 

When I prepare new cases for the first time loading, I size the case with my 12 ga. Lee Loader and plastic mallet. Also prep the flash hole to proper size and ream the primer pocket. Both of which are usually not very well finished or of the proper size.

 

Just curious about the RCBS die.

The 10 gauge Winchester hulls I have are from the 1930s from the headstamp. I primed the first 12 gauge Magteck brass last evening and maybe 2 out of 10 primed as I expected. The pockets seem tight and or shallow on many. I was using my antique capper. I have a primer pocket reamer. I'll give the pockets a going over before the next loading.

 

When you say sizing them with Lee Loader and plastic mallet to size hulls, you're talking about the old manual kit they haven't made in many years? Or the Loadall machine?

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