Fouling - APP vs. Triple 7

[McCandless]

I normally shoot real black powder. But since I have a pretty good supply of APP and Triple 7 hanging around, I decided to shoot some of it this past weekend. I shot APP in a pair of .38 Blue/CCH pistols... (don't have stainless in this caliber). In the evening, I broke down the pistols and found a lot of crust built up at the barrel opening and around the firing pin. The firing pin holes were red with rust on both of them. I had to do a fair amount of scrubbing and brushing and cleaning. I haven't had to do that with black.

 

The rifle, I shot with Triple 7. Didn't see much in the way of fouling or crud. Cleanup was pretty easy.

 

I have a good crimp on my cartridges. Cases were brass. (I can't publish the load here) 125gr smokeless lubed bullets.

 

Is this normal for APP? Is there something else I need to be doing?

 

 

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

Lesson well learned for not shooting the real BP Really, I have shot all the above including Pinacle and really could not see anything different in cleaning or rusting. I have left some Pinacle go for a month and not seen any flash rust here in dry Utah.

I am sure your humidity may have added to the problem.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I shoot APP in my cap Guns, Cartridge handguns, Rifles and Shotgun. Other than normal residue fro the APP, I have never had a a problem such as you describe. I often go several days after a match before cleaning. ???

[Sedalia Dave]

Are you sure that it was rust and not something else?

 

I mark the head of my brass (38 specials) with a sharpie so that I know at a glance if the load is Smokless, APP, etc. What ever color I use gets transferred to the firing pin hole on my Rugers.

 

Never had an issue in 2 years with rust while using APP. Can shoot a two day match with only a Ballistol wipe down every 3 stages and at the end of the day. Due to circumstances it may be two or three days before I can properly clean my guns. Never once have they rusted.

[Ya Big Tree]

No expert on the subject, but I heard if the firearm isn't petroleum lube free that the lube will turn to carbon deposits. Maybe that's what it was.

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

McCandless,

 

This is almost the opposite of my experience. APP is hardly more corrosive than smokeless. 777 will cause rust, not as bad as Pyrodex or even BP, but worse than APP.

 

Is it possible you switched the rifle and pistol ammo? Not trying to flame you, just brainstorming.

 

Smoke

[McCandless]

McCandless,

 

This is almost the opposite of my experience. APP is hardly more corrosive than smokeless. 777 will cause rust, not as bad as Pyrodex or even BP, but worse than APP.

 

Is it possible you switched the rifle and pistol ammo? Not trying to flame you, just brainstorming.

 

Smoke

 

Howdy Smoke,

That caused me to think, But nope, was using a up a funky too-short bullet when I loaded the APP. It wouldn't cycle in the rifle because of the length, so I was firing it off in the pistol. I've shot Triple 7 in my pistols before, and had to clean it right away, or I'd have to deal with crusties. BP was a whole lot easier to clean. By experience, I know not to shoot any of the above in my .45 rifle. My '66 won't make it through a match without cleaning it halfway through. .38's expand easier, and my '73 didn't get gunked at all. Perhaps my pistol chambers are too big? I'll have to check that. I was shooting Rugers.

 

Big Tree,

These are my BP revolvers. Seasoned and lubed with Ballistol. Since, the APP lubes differently, maybe that's the problem??

 

 

Oh well, I'll try it again this weekend. That'll use up most of this that I've got loaded. Then I'll only use this stuff in bottle-necked cartridges. (I load a bunch of calibers.)

 

Thanks everybody!

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

In my household both APP and Triple Seven are used. Neither has caused any rust. Both will tarnish brass. My wife's single sixes require the cylinder face be cleaned every other stage when shooting Triple Seven. They will run six or more stages without binding with APP.

[Too Tall Bob]

I shoot APP almost exclusively in my .38 rifles and revolvers. I have been able to go 12 stages with only wiping the cylinder faces after 5 or 6 stages. I also run it in my cap guns. As others have mentioned, they don't always get cleaned right away although I try to.. I never have had any rusting or real crud build up. I used 777 for a bit at first and did have the problems mebtioned.

 

just my $.02 worth

 

TTB

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I can't tell any difference between APP and 777 in terms of residue. I think APP smells funky and makes more dust than 777 when loading, but that's about it. Never a problem with rust.

 

Honestly, I don't know what the fuss is about. I can run 5 stages where the fouling isn't significant enough to tell the difference between subs and BP.

 

Subs:

Plus: Convenient if you shoot smokeless bullets too. APP and 777 can propel smokeless bullets, so no need to have a separate stash for BP.

Plus: a bit less residue than BP and BP lubed bullets

Plus: Clean up is easy with just hot water

Minus: in my opinion, subs make more smoke, making targets harder to see

Minus: little to no flame & sparks. BORING!

 

Real BP:

Plus: lots of flame and sparks

Plus: a satisfying 'boom' when the trigger is pulled. The subs sound like smokeless (to me) BORING!

Plus: Clean up is easy with just hot water

Minus: requires soft lead bullets lubed for BP

Minus: I can't think of any others

YMMV.