Dropped loaded cocked pistol pointed up range

[Blastmaster]

Okay I must be dense or missing something! Everyone is ALREADY being swept by the gun on the ground right? OK….now if the TO goes downrange and turns the gun downrange why is it necessary to clear everyone? My guess is for safety reasons as the gun being turned might go off? I think that's highly unlikely but maybe so!???

I think you are getting it. Shooter earned a MDQ for sweeping someone(s) with a loaded gun. Everyone understands that, I think. Anyone else that even touches/handles the firearm in that position that is sweeping someone(s) is subject to the same MDQ penalty, including the TO. In theory, if each and every person went up and touched the dropped/cocked pistol, they too would be subject to MDQed for sweeping someone.

 

yep, gun might go off by a flea's hair touch (while someone is being sweep and possible downrange of muzzle) is good enough to receive a penalty by whom ever and not just the shooter.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Edit: Who knows how lite-lite trigger pull some shooters may be running in their pistols.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Piece of cake. Picture this: There lies a cocked and loaded gun, pointing up range at the posse. Untouched, it is no more dangerous now or 5 minutes from now. Before you pick it up, consider what happens it it goes off. Clearing the folks from in front of it might be in order. Blocking the hammer with your thumb is a good idea. Picking it up so the muzzle immediately is straight down seems prudent. Pointing it down range and dropping the hammer slowly would make it safe to unload on the spot. Grabbing the gun and waiving it around places everyone in front of it in danger. Enough danger that, yes, you get sent home. No matter how small the club, the rules are the rules.

 

CR

 

Before touching, You would have to get everyone that is momentarily downrange of the muzzle of the dropped & cocked pistol behind the dropped gun. Once everyone (posse members, people out in the parking lot and the like) was behind (momentarily uprange of the gun), then you could touch the gun, (put finger between hammer and frame) pivot gun or pickup, then as you turn with firearm to be pointed in the true downrange direction, so would everyone behind you, in unison. After getting the muzzle point there, then lower hammer, probably unload gun there so no live round under hammer.... geeesh, would the TO have to ask another TO permission to decock? LOL

 

RYE, I presume the muzzle of the gun in the dirt is sweeping some posse members ankle, at the least. You, as the TO would have bought the MDQ the instant you touched the gun, which was sweeping someones ankle, but would be exempt from MDQ if you did the procedure above.

 

Thats my thinking.

 

Garrison Joe said:

 

Every one is a safety officer, but the TO is in charge. Other folks on the posse should assist, as directed. I know I would be clearing posse folks and spectators from being in a "danger area" in front of the barrel, before the TO bent down to safely retrieve the gun. We all "know" the gun is not going to discharge, but it reassures everyone involved if we take extra action to remove even remote possibilities of injury in such a case. This is a chance to really show respect for everyone's safety on the bay.

 

 

My point exactly. Several Pards picked up the point I am making.

 

A cocked, loaded revolver that has been dropped several feet is in a unknown safe mechanical condition. The notches on the hammer could be damaged from the fall resulting in a condition that may result in the hammer dropping when moved firing the gun. Maybe some debris got inside the action when it hit the ground.

 

Consider that some shooters like very light trigger pulls and even brag about their 1# trigger. Hummm a 1# trigger pull means very light hammer / sear contact.

 

BEFORE being able to place the web of your hand between the hammer and frame, which I agree is the safest way to prevent it from firing, you have to move the gun however slightly to a position to be able to do so. So generally speaking the gun needs to be tilted or moved some in order to get the web of the hand between the hammer and frame..

 

I experimented to test my theory. I can also catch the hammer by placing my thumb on the spur, then when I lift the gun high enough put the web of my other hand between the hammer and frame. This procedure allows complete control of the hammer.

 

But you still have to touch the gun first before you can gain control of the hammer.

 

Also consider this. Why do we have rules about not standing in front of the loading table? All of the guns have empty chambers.

 

We are sending folks home 2 x 2 while failing to realize all of the risks of handling a cocked, loaded revolver. I have worked around high voltage electrical equipment and we have always had very specific procedures to follow before touching the equipment and wires.

 

Without clearing the area of people that are in front of the muzzle ANYONE THAT TOUCHES THE GUN is committing a unsafe act and should be MDQ.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I think you are getting it. Shooter earned a MDQ for sweeping someone(s) with a loaded gun. Everyone understands that, I think. Anyone else that even touches/handles the firearm in that position that is sweeping someone(s) is subject to the same MDQ penalty, including the TO. In theory, if each and every person went up and touched the dropped/cocked pistol, they too would be subject to MDQed for sweeping someone.

 

yep, gun might go off by a flea's hair touch (while someone is being sweep and possible downrange of muzzle) is good enough to receive a penalty by whom ever and not just the shooter.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Edit: Who knows how lite-lite trigger pull some shooters may be running in their pistols.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

1- Have the bystanders move out of the way before touching the gun. If the gun is lying on the ground with no one touching it, it cannot go off by itself. I see rookie cops make this mistake at crime scenes all the time. For some reason humans feel compelled to immediately rectify the problem, as if the gun is going to jump up and automatically start blazing away. DON'T TOUCH IT, and it cannot shoot. Leave it there until everyone is out of the way. The R.O. needs to pay special attention to the shooter, who may try to reach down and pick it up. DON'T LET ANYONE TOUCH IT!!!

 

2- After the crowd has moved, pick up the gun, and keeping it pointed in a safe direction (likely at the ground), get it turned back down range.

 

3- De-cock.

 

4- Give it back to the disqualified shooter, butt first, and have him/her reholster.

 

5- DQ'd shooter moves to unloading table and safely unloads.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

1- Have the bystanders move out of the way before touching the gun. If the gun is lying on the ground with no one touching it, it cannot go off by itself. I see rookie cops make this mistake at crime scenes all the time. For some reason humans feel compelled to immediately rectify the problem, as if the gun is going to jump up and automatically start blazing away. DON'T TOUCH IT, and it cannot shoot. Leave it there until everyone is out of the way. The R.O. needs to pay special attention to the shooter, who may try to reach down and pick it up. DON'T LET ANYONE TOUCH IT!!!

 

2- After the crowd has moved, pick up the gun, and keeping it pointed in a safe direction (likely at the ground), get it turned back down range.

 

3- De-cock.

 

4- Give it back to the disqualified shooter, butt first, and have him/her reholster.

 

5- DQ'd shooter moves to unloading table and safely unloads.

See post #13

[Cypress Sam, SASS #10915]

To answer Ventura Slim's question: This happened at a match this month. The TO (Not me if you were wondering) is a very experienced CAS shooter, RO 1&2 certified with many regional and national matches under his belt.

 

There were about 15 - 20 people on the stage which is enclosed on three sides with earth berms. After making sure that all of the shooters other guns were safe and the shooter was out of the way, the TO bent over and grasped the gun by the frame, picked it up about maybe an inch above the sand and turned it quickly down range. The barrel stayed horizontal the whole time, which means that it had to sweep several people's feet, including mine.

 

Once the TO had the gun pointed in a safe direction, up, he took it to the unloading table where he cleared it by lowering the hammer and unloading it. The shooter who dropped the gun got and accepted graciously a MDQ. The TO did not get a penalty, nor did anyone suggest that he should. It had never occurred to me that a TO could get a MDQ penalty.

 

Because of the potential seriousness of this incident and the likelihood of reoccurrence, I'd suggest that this be specifically addressed in the RO1 course. I'm certainly not a safety expert but here is a suggestion:

 

1. Make sure that everyone knows that anyone committing an unsafe act, not just the shooter, can get a DQ penalty.

2. If a gun, especially a cocked gun is dropped, the TO gets everyone's attention and moves them to a safe area.

3. When everyone is clear the TO or his designee picks up the gun while securing the hammer with your thumb between the hammer and frame and swing it, barrel pointed in a safe direction, towards the berm.

4. TO then lowers the hammer and unloads the gun. He does not fire the gun because it might be full of dirt.

5. Take the unloaded gun to the unloading table and proceed with the match.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

1- Have the bystanders move out of the way before touching the gun. If the gun is lying on the ground with no one touching it, it cannot go off by itself. I see rookie cops make this mistake at crime scenes all the time. For some reason humans feel compelled to immediately rectify the problem, as if the gun is going to jump up and automatically start blazing away. DON'T TOUCH IT, and it cannot shoot. Leave it there until everyone is out of the way. The R.O. needs to pay special attention to the shooter, who may try to reach down and pick it up. DON'T LET ANYONE TOUCH IT!!!

 

2- After the crowd has moved, pick up the gun, and keeping it pointed in a safe direction (likely at the ground), get it turned back down range.

 

3- De-cock.

 

3A - UNLOAD

 

4- Give it back to the disqualified shooter, butt first, and have him/her reholster.

I'm not handing a firearm to anyone on the line "butt first" with the muzzle pointed at ME in an unknown condition.

 

 

5- DQ'd shooter moves to unloading table and safely unloads.

Should have ready been cleared by the T/O.

 

REF: SHB p. 25 #26...how a dropped firearm is to be handled by the T/O.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Cyrus: Your #4 just had the shooter re-holster a gun with the hammer down on a live cartridge.