Attracting young shooters = less rules.........

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

From time to time I see a mindset on the wire that the rules that SASS abide by somehow turn off young shooters. I guess I can't wrap my head around this. While I am no longer considered by many to be a kid (34) I was once and started this game on my own a year out of hight school. I have never found our rules to be so restrictive that I could not have the time of my life by staying within them. In fact that has always been part of the challenge for me is doing whatever I could to make myself better by staying well within the rules. I fail to see how allowing someone to mall ninja creep across a stage while shooting their 73' is going to save the sport. Think that SASS has the exclusive on having a hard time getting youth involved, think again. Have you counted heads on a high school sideline lately or in band room? Athletics,music and performing arts are suffering year after year due to lack of participation. Youth today want it right now, thank your smart phone and Facebook for that. By in large the youth of SASS represent the best of what young men and women can be like today.

 

Some may take my view as being inflexible with to desire to see change NOT happen. SASS and CAS has changed vastly since I started. Most of which I have welcomed with open arms, some of which I wish had never happened. But there is one thing that has not changed that I think truly separates us from everyone else...reverence. Reverence for the way the game is played and reverence for the people we play it with. It's so much more than throwing lead downrange. If that is all it holds for you fine, but you won't stay. Reverence is what sells our game. It's not broke folks, in fact it's actively working every weekend.You cannot blame some people not reaching out and grabbing it on the game itself. SASS is a "every mans" game but it not for everyone, and I'm 100% ok with that. My son will soon start shooting with me and my daughter will be following after that. I hope that he can learn reverence for the game, because as it did for me it will go a long way in shaping him as a young man. Maybe I'm going too deep on this, I don't know. But I'm sure folks will let me know LOL. Just wanted to shine some light on what is RIGHT with SASS.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Deuce, I have no doubt your children will be great shooters and an even greater young man and woman. Good folk seem to make good folk.

BD

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I agree Duece,, the rules aren't what keep people from joining and participating, cost is more likely of a cause... it is expensive and many of those in their 20s don't have the income we did at that age.

 

and truth be told I was in my late 40s before I started,, the only youth back then were usually family members...

[Shaddai Vaquero, SASS #69779]

+1000 Very well said Deuce.

[Dantankerous]

Well stated, Deuce. Well stated.

[Major Mishap #40451 & SBSS#1414]

Deuce & Others,

 

That's why we support the youth here in Florida. Not only have they embraced SASS but they make me proud when others meet them.

 

Encourage the youth and they will come.

[Creek County Kid]

I agree with everything you said about the game and the way youth are now a days but I do think that maybe we could promote the sport a little different to the younger generation to get them involved or to at least get the interest up a little bit. I know I started about five years ago and for me I was interested in joining sass because I remembered growing up watching movies like young guns and tombstone and thought what better way to have fun on the weekends then to dress up like billy the kid and play cowboy I know locally I have been working with two clubs and that is one of the things we are trying to do is attract a younger crowd to the sport for me I played sports through high school and I like the competitive nature of the game and at the same time we all still have a great time even if we don't shoot a good match . I think we could promote the sport different to those younger kids in high school who are in sports and show them you can still be competitive and try to win but at the same time show them that its not the most important thing that shooting with your friends and making new ones in this game is what makes it really special and a one of a kind sport

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Well said, Deuce!

 

I'm sure some that have shot in other sports may not realize that the rules we have are here for good reason (for essentially all of them).

 

A major reason for not growing more is the lack of both time and money - for most people. As well as a changed mindset for many.

[Buffalo Douglas]

cost is more likely of a cause... it is expensive and many of those in their 20s don't have the income we did at that age.

 

 

While i think cost is definitely a factor, some of the people my age and younger/older (I'm 29) are spending large sums of money on an AR for 3 gun. It's not uncommon for someone to have over 2 grand into just their AR. That's on top of a pistol and shotgun. That one expenditure, could get you close to started in this game if not completely geared up, assuming you're frugal and shop around for deals on used equipment. It wouldn't be top of the line equipment, but you could easily get started for that amount.

 

I think it's more of a mindset caused by video games and movies. I know for a large chunk of my childhood, I was watching John Wayne and Clint Eastwood with my dad, not Rambo and playing Call of Duty. The portrayal of the old west has been shadowed by the portrayal of the Hollywood soldier. Kids aren't growing up playing cowboys and Indians (for one it's no longer politically correct).

 

I think the 3 gun hype is going to be harder to overcome for a younger crowd than anything. Don't get me wrong I'd like to participate in 3 gun as well as CAS, but I think the modern guns and the allure of them to today's younger crowd is more of what keeps them from trying it out than the rules. Just my .02

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I agree Duece,, the rules aren't what keep people from joining and participating, cost is more likely of a cause... it is expensive and many of those in their 20s don't have the income we did at that age.

 

and truth be told I was in my late 40s before I started,, the only youth back then were usually family members...

I am in total agreement with you here. It's not just that the guns are expensive, which they are but of course it's all relative as there are more and less expensive hobbies, it's expensive if you aren't sure it's your thing. That's why I wish more people would take advantage of the cowboy generosity and use those extra guns we all have collecting dust in the safe. Since last december, I have brought 5 new folks to shoots and all of them have had a great time. Two of them have been back one more time and that's it so far. While I can tell they aren't used to borrowing gear, there seems to be nothing I can do to convince them that it's fine to borrow my guns and shoot the hell out them. That's what they're made for. Maybe they're afraid that the break it you buy it is in effect. I don't know what else to say to them. I do know that not one of them has complained about the rules though. If anything, they think (and rightly so) that be able to walk around with guns in holsters and later draw and shoot from those holsters is awesome.

 

One question Deuce: What the hell is a mall ninja creep.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

When was SASS's growth ever based off of YOUTH?

 

The youth of this sport typically disappear when real life starts happening to them. Do we have some that continue to shoot....sure but not many. My oldest son is a prime example. College overrides shooting....Soon (hopefully) working will override shooting. I love shooting with our young shooters....I love to see Lefty Lucy getting advice from Hawkeye Gin....I love seeing the Hot Dogs tearing down a stage......I just don't think they are the immediate future of our sport. Most likely when they get out on their own they are not going to have time or money for our sport.....

 

Who we need to target are the next group of retirees.....they have time and money which are two essentials for this game.

 

How do we do that?

 

Continue to offer a fun friendly atmosphere where you can butt heads against your friends and have a reasonable assurance that if you travel you will get to play the same game that you play back home.

 

We also need to keep in mind that our sport is not for everyone.....and that's ok.

 

Stan - who thinks Deuce is DEAD ON!!!!!!

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Proud of you Duece!!!💜💜💜

Everything today has rules...

Young people need to realize they need rules...

May be why so many seem lost these days!😒

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Very week said, Deuce.

 

Creek County Kid,

Having them see our sport for what it truly is would be great and I have no doubt would bring in some others both young and old. However, I think we should only want new shooters who want to enjoy the sport as is, not some watered-down, discolored version that they might enjoy more, but we would enjoy less.

[Russ T. Sites]

It's not the rules, my 15 year old son shot a few matches with me last year he said it was ok just not his thing , takes to much time , was too hot , too cold... typical teenager. We just have to keep the word out there for those that it may be their thing

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

Life getting in the way sounds like one of the major reasons for drop-off.

 

Cost is in there, too.

 

We have similar lack of youth concerns in radio control modelling and other discretionary hobbies--there is only so much time and $$ a person can devote to a hobby especially if there is a spouse and family in the mix.

 

not sure there is a way to overcome the lack of time some folks deal with.

 

cr

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

My grandson, Nicky Nine Fingers,is now 15 and has been shooting for about the last 3 years on a regular basis and has NEVER complained once about the rules, their application or anything even remotely connected to them.

 

In addition I shoot regularly with about a dozen other junior and under shooters and have NEVER heard any of them complain, either.

 

Every younger shooter I know is happy to be there, whatever the rules are.

 

If they later get disillusioned it's caused by someone else, not the rules!

[Chicago Ken]

Think about this.. and this is only my opinion why todays youth would not be interested in SASS or CAS.

 

1. What are todays youth exposed to? Video games and movies with modern or scifi weapons. Not many movies or games out there glamorizing the cowboy anymore.

 

2. When you go to a match, its a bunch of old people.. not many young folks want to hang out with old folks.

 

3. Having some sort of path people could grow into the game would IMHO be beneficial. A path without borrowing items everytime a person comes out. However I suggested this in another thread and was tore a new one.

 

Keep the rules as they are for those that want to participate in the class they are in. However creating classes with rules specific for beginners would not be a bad thing. The key would be to mandate advancement to the non beginner classes. Give a person time to aquire the tools to compete in the classic classes.

[Shooting Bull]

From time to time I see a mindset on the wire that the rules that SASS abide by somehow turn off young shooters.

 

I've never understood this mindset either. In my ever so humble opinion anyone, child or adult alike, who gets turned off by rules is a person most in need of rules. As has been stated many MANY times, our rules are in place for very good reasons. The best of which is for the safety of all participants. Anyone who thinks that's a turn off needs to have an attitude adjustment. In the past, present and future that attitude adjustment came from participating in organized sports or other activities that has rules. Kids who participate in these activities learn to understand and respect the rules. These same kids generally grow up to be much more responsible adults. So my bottom line is that I disagree with the mindset that rules are turning off younger shooters. But even if they are we absolutely shouldn't change. Our rules are needed and are also very good learning tools for creating better adults.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Chicago Ken...

Just gonna say it...

THIS SASS SHOOTING SPORT IS COWBOY, LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING!!!

If it is not 'their' sport, so be it...it IS ours!

Ps.., our grankids are getting old enough to start soon...and they are excited!!!

[Shooting Bull]

Keep the rules as they are for those that want to participate in the class they are in. However creating classes with rules specific for beginners would not be a bad thing. The key would be to mandate advancement to the non beginner classes. Give a person time to aquire the tools to compete in the classic classes.

 

I didn't read the other thread so this is new to me. I'd like to ask, what rules are you thinking of that would be specific to beginners that aren't already in place for us seasoned shooters? Or conversely, what current rules would you eliminate to benefit beginners?

[J-BAR #18287]

Deuce once again makes a good point. Rules are not keeping new shooters away.

 

The number and complexity of the rules just keeps some of us from wanting to run the timer for fear of not giving the shooter a fair shake. I used to enjoy being timer operator, but not so much anymore. Not trying to hijack the thread. I enjoy reading Deuce's essays, and can't remember one I disagreed with.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

I've never understood this mindset either. In my ever so humble opinion anyone, child or adult alike, who gets turned off by rules is a person most in need of rules. As has been stated many MANY times, our rules are in place for very good reasons. The best of which is for the safety of all participants. Anyone who thinks that's a turn off needs to have an attitude adjustment. In the past, present and future that attitude adjustment came from participating in organized sports or other activities that has rules. Kids who participate in these activities learn to understand and respect the rules. These same kids generally grow up to be much more responsible adults. So my bottom line is that I disagree with the mindset that rules are turning off younger shooters. But even if they are we absolutely shouldn't change. Our rules are needed and are also very good learning tools for creating better adults.

No I am going to have to disagree with this statement. The rules are always going to change, and usually for the better. If we played by the same rules as when the game first started, then we would not be playing the same game as we are now. Or so I have been told. Heck, even in the couple of years since I have been at it, I have seen several good rule changes. The dropped round fiasco for one. And one that has had a direct effect on me is the addition of FCGF class. I shot this class already, but as a gunfighter, so now all my competition (I use that word generously as I have yet to truly compete against those I shoot with that are really, really good), shoots the dark stuff as well.

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

The rules have never been a factor for my family. we knew them going into the game. We educated ourselves before we started shooting so we knew what it would take to get going. You don't join a soccer team and then try to change the league rules because you can't afford cleats. You don't join a skeet league and ask them to make a special category because you can only afford a .410 - it just doesn't work that way. no sport works that way. EVERY sport requires a MINIMUM set of equipment. period. there is no "Gateway football league" for a reason. Same for SASS.

 

Duece is right. SASS rules are not a factor in "tuning off" young shooters. It's like any other sport. It's not for everyone.

 

My daughter just turned 15 and is in the sweet spot of attrition for our sport but she is not getting less involved, she is getting MORE involved. Sure, she loves to shoot and is getting better all the time but she doesn't necessarily do this for the shooting. She does it for the PEOPLE. everyone we shoot with has become family. that bond is what will keep her shooting. throw in the opportunity to play with guns and she's ALL IN. and yes, I said "play" with guns. Don't much care if it's politically incorrect.

 

BUT: had it not been for her parents she would have never gotten involved. If you want the youth to come out and play, you have to get the parents to come out and play. THAT is how you target the youth and draw them into the sport. you target the parents. Figure out how to pull entire FAMILIES into the sport. We are family oriented by design. We should be targeting mom and dad and show them that this is an activity where they can spend quality time with their kids. I'd much rather be doing this that sitting on the sideline of some soccer game watching the kids have all the fun!

 

Sass teaches important life skills and values that go well beyond gun safety.

[Blackwater 53393]

Deuce!! I think you've covered it nicely. My son, Hatfield, gets to shoot maybe three times a year at the most, BUT he's always asking about matches I attend and folks he hasn't seen lately. He never had a problem with the rules and hopes to bring his boys into the game when they're ready and if they're interested.

 

Like you pointed out, this game isn't for everybody!!

[Dukes Up Dan]

I definitely agree with the popular opinion on here that the rules are in no way a deterrent to young shooters. Some of the younger folk, like myself are just too use to the modern age that they are just put off by the "it's old, so it must not be good" mindset that many kids today have. I for one think that it's fun in both the fact that i have the satisfaction of the old bang and clang, but also enjoy the historical aspect. There just aren't that many kids like that anymore. And being 19, just out of high school, I understand that life happens, but also don't believe it can completely get in the way of shooting. I mean it's not impossible to go to school, work, and in my case, once a month go shoot a match. Even my dad, who got me into the sport, is working full time and going to school as well and has time to even help teach me a few things and shoot.

[Chicago Ken]

I didn't read the other thread so this is new to me. I'd like to ask, what rules are you thinking of that would be specific to beginners that aren't already in place for us seasoned shooters? Or conversely, what current rules would you eliminate to benefit beginners?

Ok, opening the can of worms here to answer your question. Remember You asked. Don't crucify me for my thoughts and opinion. I got beat up on the other thread. While the basic idea is just that an idea open to discussion. I have modified my thoughts below from my original idea as some folks did provide positive feedback and opened my mind to options.

 

I made the example of a modern cowboy class. Allowing any Single action or double action revolver as long as its shot in Single action style. Design modern cowboy scenarios to suit the weapons and use of only revolver. Any lever action rifle and any shotgun. Limitations put on those weapons so they arn't distructive or dangerous. This would allow people to use weapons they may already have and not need to borrow thus keeping the entry cost into the sport less. Since the name of the game is Single Action Shooters or Cowboy Action shooters. In my opinion the spirit of the game would remain intact however it would provide a path for new people to start with.

 

Obviosly more thought and time would need to be put into it if it were adopted but its a basic concept.

[Chicago Ken]

Chicago Ken...

Just gonna say it...

THIS SASS SHOOTING SPORT IS COWBOY, LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING!!!

If it is not 'their' sport, so be it...it IS ours!

Ps.., our grankids are getting old enough to start soon...and they are excited!!!

Ok, no were did I say it wasn't cowboy action shooting. Not sure I understand why your yelling but like you said, It's your game.

[Reckless Roy]

I don't think the issue is the rules so much as the nature of our sport. I have talked to a number of people who said they tried CAS and it wasn't for them because it wasn't active enough. They like to "run and gun" in shooting sports such as 3 gun. I think it is natural that younger shooters would feel this way. One of the things I like about CAS is that it emphasizes shooting rather than running. I'm too old and infirm for that. More importantly, the other shooting sports don't speak to my soul. CAS does.

[Wyatt]

.................and it started out as a great thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Apparently, one has to YELL to be heard.

Anyway, I'm out...

Getting all Bad-moody following this (and the last post...wich just goes on and on, and on...)

In the words of Black Zack Jack...

"Why accept/expect mediocracy?"

I translate this as "why do something halfway?"

[Captain Bill Burt]

Deuce nailed it!

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

I coached Jr. Air Rifle at my club for about 7 years, about 7 years ago. Most of them are now in college or off working in the world. Every now and then, one of them spots me in the store and comes up to say Howdy. They don't shoot too much these days, but all remember how much fun they had and look forward to doing it again when time and life permit.

 

My kids are the same way. Started them out shooting Air Rifle and then migrated them to Cowboy when they were 12 and 14 respectively. They still enjoy talking about it and talk about shooting with us again, but between college, work, wife & kids for the older and girlfriend for the younger, they just don't have the time, but I do think that they will come back to the sport in the future.

 

Now I looking forward to getting my Grandkids started. Grand-daughter is almost 6 and grandson is almost 2. Still go a few years to go for them, but they already have SASS Memberships and "PaPa" and "Grammy" have already got them setup with gear!

 

Have FUN, be Safe, and have FUN! The "Kids" will want to play with us too!

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I don't think the issue is the rules so much as the nature of our sport. I have talked to a number of people who said they tried CAS and it wasn't for them because it wasn't active enough. They like to "run and gun" in shooting sports such as 3 gun. I think it is natural that younger shooters would feel this way. One of the things I like about CAS is that it emphasizes shooting rather than running. I'm too old and infirm for that. More importantly, the other shooting sports don't speak to my soul. CAS does.

I hear stories of when the game was first created and how active it was (like riding a "horse" shooting under a stage coach, kicking in doors, etc) and I yearn for those days. I am still fairly young, fit, and love the stages where there is actual action. So why not do 3 gun right? Those black guns have no soul to me. I guess I just grew up watching way too many westerns as a kid, but there really is something to be said about a Winchester rifle and a Colt pistol. Not to mention a good old double barrel. Plus those black guns don't run all the well with black powder, or so I have been told. So I will sacrifice the action part in order to shoot with soul. I can always go for a run after the shoot if I feel I didn't get enough in during.

[Shooting Bull]

No I am going to have to disagree with this statement. The rules are always going to change, and usually for the better. If we played by the same rules as when the game first started, then we would not be playing the same game as we are now. Or so I have been told. Heck, even in the couple of years since I have been at it, I have seen several good rule changes. The dropped round fiasco for one. And one that has had a direct effect on me is the addition of FCGF class. I shot this class already, but as a gunfighter, so now all my competition (I use that word generously as I have yet to truly compete against those I shoot with that are really, really good), shoots the dark stuff as well.

 

My apologies, I obviously didn't make my point as clear as I should have. I TOTALLY agree with you that rules can and should be changed if there's something wrong with them. What I meant to say was that if a certain group of people simply don't like following rules, that doesn't indicate anything is wrong with the rules and doesn't warrant any changes to them.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

OK, I have 2 young kids shooting SASS. Obviously, they wouldn't go if it weren't for me. They both enjoy it, but my daughter likes it much more than my son. She is more competitive and more social, he just goes because we are all going, if he had his way he would usually prefer to play his X-Box. One of the reasons he is also in Boy Scouts, get him out and about.

As for the rules, I really don't see what the problem is. I haven't seen anyone site specific rules that they don't like, so what is the problem? too many guns? Well, they need 4, just like the rest of us, otherwise they aren't shooting what we are shooting. Do you really think if they had their own rules it would be better? I rather doubt it, as young kids shooting with mostly older folks I think they wold feel even more left out. My sons likes the shooting. but he has told me many times, " Dad, I don't talk to anyone because I don't have any thing in common with all these old guys". We already have the buckaroo class, they already get to shoot .22 if they want, they already don't have to knock down the targets like we do. From what i have seen they get cut a bit more slack with non safety mistakes, we let brain farts slip without penalties. when they do makes a more serious mistake we don't jump down their throats, just emphasize safety as much as we can. I think we are doing exactly what we need to be doing. You can't make kids like things. Just get them to try SASS, and if they like it, they do. If not, then just leave the door open and maybe they will try it again when they get older.