New IAC cowboy 1897's

[Attica Jack #23953]

Are the new IAC cowboy 1897's competitive, or do they need lots of gunsmith work to make them so?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

They are very nice. Not much smithing needed for great shooting. A mag spring trim if you want to stoke 6.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Coyote Kincaid]

Some are good and some are not. I know a couple that have had good luck and then there is the lemon I got that I haven't seen since September when I sent it back for repairs.

[Medicine Creek Johnny]

Just got 3 that all seem pretty nice

[Lead Ringer]

I played with a brand new one today. It was Remarkably smooth out of the box👍🏼

Regards,

Ringer

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

They are smooth right out of the box.

[Outlaw Gambler]

Yes they are smooth out of the box. However, smooth alone does not make a good competition gun.

 

Most of them, not all, have issues that need to be checked and addressed. Timing issues will cause poor ejection, not feeding out of the mag tube. Other problems include firing pin springs, main spring, and double cocker.

 

These issues cannot be repaired or updated by IAC, Davidsons, or other sellers. They are not aware of the problems or how to fix them. They don't have parts. They cannot warranty them except to send you a replacement with the odds that the replacement has the same problems.

 

CB97's with these problems can be updated and repaired under warranty.

 

The only warranty provider is Coyote Cap. He has the knowledge of problems and solutions and as important he has parts if needed.

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

The thread is about the new IAC CB97's.

You know the 97 we were told is was the finest 97 ever made. Then after 6 months and other dealers were able to get them, we were, and still are, being told that we can only get "good" ones from certain dealers.

 

Davidson's will repair, or replace as per their guarantee, contrary to what others say, and there are plenty of dealers that can get you one of these CB97's. I'm getting a little tired of being told that there is only a few select dealers who can get you a "good" one.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I thought ONLY approx 450 of these new IAC 97's were gonna be available and after they were gone, there would be no more.

 

How many more are there?

 

On a side note, I have 3 of the new CB97's and all of them were purchased thru separate dealers..... and all of them appear to be real good.

 

 

..........Widder

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

I shipped CB015xx a few weeks ago. That puts production over 1500 and they are still coming in. The 450 number was BS.

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

The thread is about the new IAC CB97's.

You know the 97 we were told is was the finest 97 ever made. Then after 6 months and other dealers were able to get them, we were, and still are, being told that we can only get "good" ones from certain dealers.

 

Davidson's will repair, or replace as per their guarantee, contrary to what others say, and there are plenty of dealers that can get you one of these CB97's. I'm getting a little tired of being told that there is only a few select dealers who can get you a "good" one.

 

 

Ah, Seeing what we wanted to see.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Ah, Seeing what we wanted to see.

There is a whole other thread about the CAI 1887 currently on the wire. This thread is about the new Cowboy 97 from IAC

[Lil Dead Drewzter]

I got one from Davidson's shipped to my LGS. It was fine out of the box. I little polishing and a Load 6 kit made it very nice for WB or CAS. Most cowboy's that I have showed to too said it was relatively smooth

[Dirty Southpaw]

Buy one that has been gone through by Coyote Cap, defenitly worth it(mine had bad parts and was fixed by coyote cap, should have just got one from him). Also the new 97's dont like aluminum base hulls.(mine only likes brass)

[Coyote Kincaid]

Buy one that has been gone through by Coyote Cap, defenitly worth it(mine had bad parts and was fixed by coyote cap, should have just got one from him). Also the new 97's dont like aluminum bass hulls.(mine doesnt only likes brass)

How long did it take for repairs?

[Dirty Southpaw]

less than a month. You will have to contact him for times, but he did a great job on mine.

[Coyote Kincaid]

less than a month. You will have to contact him for times, but he did a great job on mine.

Hmmmmm... Wonder what an 8 month wait is going to get me?

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

Coyote Kincaid, - - - and others reading this !

 

Your answers - - - thanks to Mayo Clinic, I am still above ground but months behind in warranty work - - - especially CB-97's with ser#'s above 450.

 

If your ser # is below CB-00450, and it has a warranty problem, it will take priority over ser #'s above CB-00450. (moderators, please let me explain) !

 

The reason - - - I was lied to in order to get me to take the risk to commit to buying 450 shotguns - - - The importer knew the guns were destined for use in SASS Competition, so even the letters "CB" (for Cowboy Competition) came from my suggestions. After I when through enough CB-97's to be assured they were good quality (after some fine tuning), and delivered them to selected cowboy dealers, I felt pretty good about those last 450 guns going to SASS.

 

When the Import powers that be, saw the success the new CB-97's were having in the market and the outstanding reputation each CB-97 was earning, they made a decision (without telling me) that they were going to build a whole bunch more and peddle them through major distributors and bypass us completely.

 

IAC flooded the market - - - expecting them to sell like hotcakes - - - (and they did. because IAC priced them cheaper), but in doing so, they.undermined a years worth of hard work, getting the unknown bugs out of them, because, unfortunately, the Chinese still could not be trusted to stop putting (non CNC'd) parts into those guns that did not fit, nor work correctly - - - and those defective parts and problems had to be found before shipping to a new buyer.

 

That fact has lead to a market problem in warranties of which sole responsibility was cast my way - - - because I have the parts (and expertise) to do the work, fix their guns properly and get them back to their major distributors. Dang it all - - - I really don't need this - - - not now, not with my heart and lung problems.

 

Have you ever thought of seeing a train wreck coming, and there was nothing you could do about it ? That is how I and some SASS Cowboy dealers felt.

 

When you say the words - - - "there will only be these last 450 guns and no more will be built", and then find out (much later), that you will have to eat those words and you have been made a fool and worse - - - a liar !

How do think we (and those loyal and honest cowboy dealers) felt ? We felt betrayed - - - and we were !

(Moderators - - - I don't need the work, nor anymore stressful problems, and if you pull this thread off the wire, I fully understand).

Once again - - - respectfully submitted, because SASS folks need to be told the truth !

"Coyote Cap"

SASS Life 14184

Founders Ranch Platinum Member

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Cap,

 

from one satisfied owner of 3 CB 97's, thanks for the above post.

 

And first and foremost, I surely wish you well with your health issues.

 

God Bless

 

 

..........Widder

[Russ T. Sites]

 

 

Coyote Kincaid, - - - and others reading this !

 

Your answers - - - thanks to Mayo Clinic, I am still above ground but months behind in warranty work - - - especially CB-97's with ser#'s above 450.

 

If your ser # is below CB-00450, and it has a warranty problem, it will take priority over ser #'s above CB-00450. (moderators, please let me explain) !

 

The reason - - - I was lied to in order to get me to take the risk to commit to buying 450 shotguns - - - The importer knew the guns were destined for use in SASS Competition, so even the letters "CB" (for Cowboy Competition) came from my suggestions. After I when through enough CB-97's to be assured they were good quality (after some fine tuning), and delivered them to selected cowboy dealers, I felt pretty good about those last 450 guns going to SASS.

 

When the Import powers that be, saw the success the new CB-97's were having in the market and the outstanding reputation each CB-97 was earning, they made a decision (without telling me) that they were going to build a whole bunch more and peddle them through major distributors and bypass us completely.

 

IAC flooded the market - - - expecting them to sell like hotcakes - - - (and they did. because IAC priced them cheaper), but in doing so, they.undermined a years worth of hard work, getting the unknown bugs out of them, because, unfortunately, the Chinese still could not be trusted to stop putting (non CNC'd) parts into those guns that did not fit, nor work correctly - - - and those defective parts and problems had to be found before shipping to a new buyer.

 

That fact has lead to a market problem in warranties of which sole responsibility was cast my way - - - because I have the parts (and expertise) to do the work, fix their guns properly and get them back to their major distributors. Dang it all - - - I really don't need this - - - not now, not with my heart and lung problems.

 

Have you ever thought of seeing a train wreck coming, and there was nothing you could do about it ? That is how I and some SASS Cowboy dealers felt.

 

When you say the words - - - "there will only be these last 450 guns and no more will be built", and then find out (much later), that you will have to eat those words and you have been made a fool and worse - - - a liar !

 

How do think we (and those loyal and honest cowboy dealers) felt ? We felt betrayed - - - and we were !

 

(Moderators - - - I don't need the work, nor anymore stressful problems, and if you pull this thread off the wire, I fully understand).

 

 

Once again - - - respectfully submitted, because SASS folks need to be told the truth !

 

"Coyote Cap"

SASS Life 14184

Founders Ranch Platinum Member

 

 

You've always came on the wire and told us what was going on and what we should do to get it fixed . Never once did I think it was your fault. It's a shame that they put you in the middle of there bad business practices . I'm sure we a feel the same way

Happy owner of a first 450 cb97

[Outlaw Gambler]

I spoke with Daniel at Davidson's regarding their lifetime warranty on all guns, not just the IAC 97, which on their web site is titled "Hawk 97". Here is his explanation.

 

If a gun is purchased from Davidson's it comes with a lifetime warranty/guarantee. If there is a problem with the gun, the buyer should contact Davidson's, and if it is to be returned to Davidson's, they will replace it with another gun of the same model and make. Davidson's does NOT have any parts or gunsmiths for any make or model of any gun they sell! If a replacement is available it is sent to the buyer, If the returned gun is not made anymore or none are available, Davidson's will contact the manufacturer, in this case IAC, and ask about repairing it and will send it to IAC for repairs. Davidson's, and PISCO, is currently sending the CB97's to the warranty provider, Coyote Cap. There are about 26 there now for warranty. If there is no one that does the warranty work, Davidson's will look back at the original purchase price and either refund that amount or credit it against another purchase.

 

Why did I post this? Not to discredit Davidson's lifetime warranty, but it has been touted as a reason to buy one of their CB97's.

 

Let's do the math.

Dealer cost of a "IAC Hawk 97" from Davidson's is listed at $369.99 plus shipping (guesstimated at $25.00), for a total of $395.00

Dealers are selling the IAC Hawk 97 for about $500.00, some a little less and some a little more, plus shipping.

Some dealers are selling IAC Hawk 97 with action work for $625.00 to $650.00 plus shipping.

If you purchase one that has not had the upgrades or modifications, the price is about $525.00 delivered to your FFL.

If you purchase one with "action work", the price is about $675.00 delivered to your FFL.

 

If you get one without the updates or modifications and have to send it in for warranty, the cost is between $150.00 and $175.00 plus about $50.00 for round trip shipping.This amount added to the above estimate is now $725.00 IF the action has not been polished thereby voiding the warranty.

 

If you purchase one with action work, about $675.00

 

OR, purchase one that already has the updates and modifications and is still covered with a 100% warranty, for about $625.00 delivered to your FFL. These can be purchased from about 10 dealers thru out the U.S.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I took the bait and got one of the very first CBs, it has a very low two digit serial number (after all the zeroes). It was pricey, about $670 and needed a little help from my local gunsmith. Now it is a great gun. Used it yesterday on a coupla stages in a CAS match -- the one with 3 sg kd's and one regular stage with even number of sg targets. It is my main CAS pump now and I have a dozen or so originals and half dozen chinee copies. Most all of those are laying around in various stages of disrepair. I originally wanted the CB to shoot in WBAS but it does not like to be stoked. Even after the original seller, a famous guy, and my guy breathed on it. Oh well. Sigh. I have others for that game and I like the CB better than any pump I have ever had for CAS. My main regret is the premium paid as opposed to what they go for now....sigh...oh well live and learn

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Hmmm, I just got off the phone with Davidson's. They charge $10 if the gun is over 30 days from delivery. They DO NOT charge shipping. They provide a free shipping label. They DO NOT charge between $150-175 for warrantee work.

CB97's can be purchased through any Davidson's dealer. Some as low as $489 shipped. Are there some that should not have passed factory inspection? Sure. As it was explained there are CB97's under 450 as well as over 450 coming back for minor tweeking, but if yours is under 450 you get to jump the line, while buyers of that same CB97 with a serial number over 450 get moved back. That doesnt seem right.

Overall this latest generation of 97's are very good guns, and an answer to the ever growing scarcity of original Winchester 1897's.

I bought CB001xx and it had no special mark on the bolt. Guess what? It is the same gun as CB015xx that I shipped last week, except I fell for the "only 450 will be made" line and paid top dollar.

The decision is yours pards. I just am at odds with some of tactics being used to steer buyers from one source, to another, based on misinformation.

 

Another tip. If you do have to send a gun (any gun, not just a CB97) back to Davidson's, opt for the new replacement. As repair could be a long wait.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Opps double tap

[Monco]

Coyote Cap,

I want to thank you for all of your hard work over the years. You have most certainly gone far and above most if not all in helping to bring cowboy shooters great reproduction firearms with obviously far more driving your actions than making a buck......this cannot be appreciated enough. I know I always love reading your informative posts regarding technical aspects of the firearms for which you specialize in.

 

THANK YOU!

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

John Barleycorn,

 

Misinformation ? What misinformation are you referring to ? What part of my explanation in post #19 did you not understand ?

 

The whole purpose of taking such a financial risk was to bring safe, strong, fast, smooth and reliable guns to SASS members at a bargain price.

 

It took 17 years and multiple trips to China to get the final product as close as possible to what was best for SASS. If this exercise of bringing safe and reliable guns to SASS was only about money, I would have scooped up my marbles and jacks and went home, long, long ago !!

 

I will try one more time to make it as clear to you as I can - - - I was lied to about only 450 would be built. That is a fact - - - here are some more facts.

 

Fact - - - There are 26 CB-97's here with serial numbers above 450, with various defects, because they weren't checked out first.

Fact - - - Four of those came directly from Davidson's in Prescott, AZ.

Fact - - - Seven of them came from Pisco in OR. (and whomever sent them to Pisco in the first place).

Fact - - - Five of them came from IAC in MA. (as a defective replacement).

Fact - - - The rest came from private smaller dealers - - - a couple of them ticked off because of shipping costs.

 

Fact - - - after delivering (370) CB-97's to SASS cowboy dealers, only two have been returned for a defect, (other than weak ejection).

 

Fact - - - after being undercut in price and lied to about the 450 being the last available - - why should I move those defects ahead of regular work ?

 

Doesn't it make sense to you, if the guns are not checked out first, it leads to frustrated cowboys ? (me included) ??

 

Being cheap, doesn't mean better - - - an unknown defect can mess up a clean match and cost more to get repaired or replaced.

 

Reliability is the only answer ! Quality, Strength, Speed, safety and Reliability costs more, and you get what you paid for !

 

There are MANY really good cowboy gunsmiths in SASS, and it was suggested to recommend to you that you hook up with one of those cowboy gunsmiths to better your product if you continue to sell to SASS members !

 

"Coyote Cap"
SASS Life 14184

Founders Platinum Mbr.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

The misinformation I was referring to was OG's post that Davidson's is charging $150-175 for warrantee work plus shipping. Simply not true.

 

CC, I do recommend several Cowboy gunsmiths, and will continue to do so.

[Outlaw Gambler]

John Barleycorn, please go back and reread my post. This is the sentence I think you are referring to

 

"If you get one without the updates or modifications and have to send it in for warranty, the cost is between $150.00 and $175.00 plus about $50.00 for round trip shipping.This amount added to the above estimate is now $725.00 IF the action has not been polished thereby voiding the warranty."

 

While I will admit the sentence is a little confusing it does not say Davidson's charges anything for warranty. Believe me when I say I have nothing against Davidson's or their policies. I do a fair amount of business with them and am totally satisfied. This sentence was away from the paragraph concerning Davidson's. If I had typed it correctly it should have read:

 

If a buyer gets one without the updates and the action has been polished or altered it will void the warranty and the charge will be between $150 and $175 plus about $50.00 round trip shipping to have it corrected. I have also found out that my estimate is low if the carrier and the bolt have to be replaced.

 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

OG,

Thank you for clarifying. Davidson's has always treated my business, and my customers with top notch service. That's why I'm so confident when I sell their firearms, be it CB97's, Rugers, or the Cimarron, and Winchester line.