Entry level catagories?

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Howdy Chicago Ken,

 

What drew you to Cowboy Action Shooting and SASS?

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

As other have said, nope not for us.

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Well,

 

Other than borrowing firearms and holsters which has been suggested, some clubs offer a category like "Working Cowboy" where only one pistol, rifle & shotgun are used but you aren't scored with those shooting full compliment of firearms. You can always shoot with what appropriate firearm(s) you have and just take misses on the rest if you would rather not borrow any. I watched three shoots & helped on workdays for three months before I had firearms but still used borrowed holsters.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Well,

 

Other than borrowing firearms and holsters which has been suggested, some clubs offer a category like "Working Cowboy" where only one pistol, rifle & shotgun are used but you aren't scored with those shooting full compliment of firearms. You can always shoot with what appropriate firearm(s) you have and just take misses on the rest if you would rather not borrow any. I watched three shoots & helped on workdays for three months before I had firearms but still used borrowed holsters.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

I agree. I feel that this topic is a solution looking for a problem. I don't know why we would need a new category for it. Categories really don't matter much above club level anyway, do they? So if a local club wants to offer their own version of working cowboy, or new shooter, or whatever, that's on them. If it helps grow the club and sport, then even better. But to make it a category would not make a whole lot of sense, seeing how the only reason for a category would be to compete at a higher level, which if the new shooter really liked the game and wanted that, then they would either find a way to get the needed guns, or else find a very nice pard to loan them. But jsut for trying the game out and not sure if it's for them, I don't see the point of a category. And I say this with the understanding that we probably need some younger folks playing, as at 42 I tend to be the youngest shooter around locally.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Local club decisions to allow a non-standard category don't matter much a-tall.

 

Only when a shooter decides to pull the old trick about "Well, my local club always allows me to shoot Working-at-getting-guns category, so how come youse guys here at the State/Regional/World champeenships won't let me?" does it get tiresome and argumentative.

 

That's why it is in the beginning shooter's best interest to learn what is allowed in official categories.

 

Good luck, GJ

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Local club decisions to allow a non-standard category don't matter much a-tall.

 

Only when a shooter decides to pull the old trick about "Well, my local club always allows me to shoot Working-at-getting-guns category, so how come youse guys here at the State/Regional/World champeenships won't let me?" does it get tiresome and argumentative.

 

That's why it is in the beginning shooter's best interest to learn what is allowed in official categories.

Do you mean by actually researching the category regulations in the Shooters Handbook (pp. 13-17)?

There's a novel concept.

 

Good luck, GJ

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Local club decisions to allow a non-standard category don't matter much a-tall.

 

Only when a shooter decides to pull the old trick about "Well, my local club always allows me to shoot Working-at-getting-guns category, so how come youse guys here at the State/Regional/World champeenships won't let me?" does it get tiresome and argumentative.

 

That's why it is in the beginning shooter's best interest to learn what is allowed in official categories.

 

Good luck, GJ

Is this a real thing? I haven't been to a lot of big matches, but the ones I have been to you had to fill out the application before you go to shoot. So if I am new and all I know is what the club level allows, and I go to register as a "working-at-getting-guns" category and don't see it, what would I do? I guess I would either ask another cowboy at my local (which is most likely how I would have heard about it anyway if I wasn't up on the rules), or I call the contact number. In either case, I am going to be told that I can't compete at that shoot without picking a legal category. So in a long and drawn out way, my question would be how is it these people are even getting to the match to be able to complain about it, much less so often as to get tiresome?

[Deadeye George]

I think that we, the older shooters need to understand where the younger folks are coming from and why many don't give much thought to any existing structure of an organization or reading users manuals because they feel they have the right to change whatever they dislike or add whatever they like to suit THEIR needs.

 

To get an idea of how people are bombarded with advertising these days, it's all geared to the INDIVIDUAL and to the individual needs, wants and desires! Need a phone, OK, now let's make it YOURS, YOUR own color, YOUR own ring tone (different tone for each friend) and your own monthly plan. Nothing anymore is about being part of a group and just going with the flow.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Is this a real thing? I haven't been to a lot of big matches, but the ones I have been to you had to fill out the application before you go to shoot. So if I am new and all I know is what the club level allows, and I go to register as a "working-at-getting-guns" category and don't see it, what would I do? I guess I would either ask another cowboy at my local (which is most likely how I would have heard about it anyway if I wasn't up on the rules), or I call the contact number. In either case, I am going to be told that I can't compete at that shoot without picking a legal category. So in a long and drawn out way, my question would be how is it these people are even getting to the match to be able to complain about it, much less so often as to get tiresome?

Not Garrison Joe but it very much is a real thing!

He isn't talking so much about categories but allowing people to shoot illegal guns and wear illegal clothing or gear at a local level happens a lot. Then, those folks show up at a state level or above match and get bent when they can't shoot their Marlin 38 in Classic Cowboy or their 73 in B Western!

[Nickel City Dude]

Not Garrison Joe but it very much is a real thing!

He isn't talking so much about categories but allowing people to shoot illegal guns and wear illegal clothing or gear at a local level happens a lot. Then, those folks show up at a state level or above match and get bent when they can't shoot their Marlin 38 in Classic Cowboy or their 73 in B Western!

BD

I know it is not permitted to shoot a 73 in B-Western but I have never understood or been informed as to why. Can you enlighten me?

NCD

[Boggus Deal #64218]

BD

I know it is not permitted to shoot a 73 in B-Western but I have never understood or been informed as to why. Can you enlighten me?

NCD

No, sir, I don't know the answer. Like you, I have just always known it to be so. Maybe PWB or another of the Rules Committee can.

BD

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Not Garrison Joe but it very much is a real thing!

He isn't talking so much about categories but allowing people to shoot illegal guns and wear illegal clothing or gear at a local level happens a lot. Then, those folks show up at a state level or above match and get bent when they can't shoot their Marlin 38 in Classic Cowboy or their 73 in B Western!

Ah, I guess that makes sense. Not that part that it should happen, but that it does happen. I did see a couple of shooters get dinged at an annual for trying to shoot frontier cartridge out of blackhawks once, so I see your point.

[Waimea]

I you Waimea, just don't tell anyone!

 

The cat's outta the bag on that one, Miss Allie.

But I won't spread it around.

 

I do have to rub it in Krazy Kajun's face though.

 

Hey, Kajun, where are you.

I got somethin' to tell you.

He's probly creepin' around in some swamp.

 

 

 

Waimea

 

[Singin' Sue 71615]

When new folks show interest in SASS- Cowboy Shooting...

We tell them exactly what we told our 6 kids in school.

It is a 'cirriculum', wich has rules and guidelines.

If there is a dress code, they met, at the least, the minimum requirenents.

If rules were set in the class, they followed, regardless if they thought them not necessary.

They got out of school, what they put into it.

Same with SASS.

I don't mind change, but to 'restructure' SASS ... then it wouldn't be SASS.

There are so many shooting venues to choose from. I would hate to see ours lose its flavor!

[Griff]

Is this a real thing? I haven't been to a lot of big matches, but the ones I have been to you had to fill out the application before you go to shoot. So if I am new and all I know is what the club level allows, and I go to register as a "working-at-getting-guns" category and don't see it, what would I do? I guess I would either ask another cowboy at my local (which is most likely how I would have heard about it anyway if I wasn't up on the rules), or I call the contact number. In either case, I am going to be told that I can't compete at that shoot without picking a legal category. So in a long and drawn out way, my question would be how is it these people are even getting to the match to be able to complain about it, much less so often as to get tiresome?

Generally speaking... if a person is interested enough to desire attending a "big" shoot, they have the desire to be properly equipped. Desire to learn the rules, about the requirements of the various categories... etc. Folks that like being spoon-fed, don't generally like the cowboy action shooting scene. All those pesky role-models of folks that have gathered their gear, done the research to pick a category and abide by the rules... etc.!

[Deadeye George]

When new folks show interest in SASS- Cowboy Shooting...

We tell them exactly what we told our 6 kids in school.

It is a 'cirriculum', wich has rules and guidelines.

If there is a dress code, they met, at the least, the minimum requirenents.

If rules were set in the class, they followed, regardless if they thought them not necessary.

They got out of school, what they put into it.

Same with SASS.

I don't mind change, but to 'restructure' SASS ... then it wouldn't be SASS.

There are so many shooting venues to choose from. I would hate to see ours lose its flavor!

Amen to that!

 

My daughter has been a school teacher for over 20 years and the stories she tells me of how things have changed in the classroom I find hard to believe and the same applies to the stories I tell her of how it was like back in the 50's and 60's. Teachers now get ZERO respect, have no authority and have to watch their tone when talking to a student else they will cause them distress and discomfort, which affects their comprehension skills in the classroom and resulting poor grades.

[Three Foot Johnson]

Ya don't play golf with a baseball bat.

[Chicago Ken]

This has been a real eye opener thread, Like I said, it keeps comming up for a reason.

[Anvil Al #59168]

This has been a real eye opener thread, Like I said, it keeps comming up for a reason.

 

 

And it should. ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.

Which is the entry level.

As stated before.

MANY local clubs offer entry level categorys.

And are more than willing to work with new shooters.

But see no need for it to go past the local level.

[Kirk James]

I know I am going to open a can of worms but I cannot help myself. Be nice, I am married with children and may have missed a tread or two. Why do we allow competitors to move categories. It seems it would be fair to have 17 years old to 35 in the cowboy without others moving in it. Why is it considered an open category. I shoot senior and it is a tough category. No need to move to another category, just need to practice more. A lot more. Get old Fast Eddie, Fredrick Jackson Turner, JT Wild, get old. Wait there is a bunch of 49ers coming up. Just practice more.

[Rye Miles #13621]

No thanks.

+1000000000000000000000

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

This has been a real eye opener thread, Like I said, it keeps comming up for a reason.

 

And the reason is "New Coke"

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

Not all new shooter come to this forum and learn that cowboys & cowgirls will gladly share what equipment that a new shooter lacks. They may hear about SASS, look at the rule book or YouTube videos and say "well I don't have all the equipment", they may then drop the whole idea before they get to the range.

What if SASS added some simple wording added in the rule book that says something akin to "On the local level only...shooters who don't have the required number of guns may skip that string of shoots and take a misses...". This would a least allow a person who doesn't have all the equipment and doesn't know about the good lending habits of CAS, a chance to try it out. Once they arrived at the range, I'm sure fellow shooters would then lend the rest of the equipment.

This is exactly how I did my first match, I had two pistols and my dad's single shot 20ga, but I didn't have a rifle. My plan was to take the misses on those, of course a nice cowboy put a '94 Marlin in my hand and then I was hooked.

[Lead Hammer]

It takes time and a personal choice to gather all the stuff to participate in our sport. New shooters are welcomed with smiles, loaned gear and encouragement. If a new person wants to take part, Equipment is not a barrier.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

It takes time and a personal choice to gather all the stuff to participate in our sport. New shooters are welcomed with smiles, loaned gear and encouragement. If a new person wants to take part, Equipment is not a barrier.

100% truth there. Many many shooters on this thread have put their time and money where their mouth is when it comes to welcoming new shooters. Equipment is not the barrier, but attitude can be.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Kirk James...I'm confused?

You ask why a shooter CAN'T move to another catagory???

It IS allowed, at any match...as long as it is a offered catagory (example: met the required entries )

AND you have changed catagories with your Posse Marshal BEFORE the first round goes down range.

At least, as I know it...unless the rules have changed without my knowledge of it!

And for men, being so many more men then woman in this sport, you are right! More practice. 😜

Shanley is running with majority of top shooters....and even Senior catagory will be tough...'cause they will be moving up right along with him!

[Grizzly Dave]

IMO the reason this (and other ideas and thoughts) keep coming up is that people love this game and want to share it with others. Folks who may not have heard an idea before think 'hey, this would be great!' But quite often the idea has been raised before, and discussed, and perhaps even implemented on some level with varying degrees of success. There may be reasons and issues that aren't obvious as to why something might not be practical to implement on a SASS wide basis. It can also be that whatever idea has been tried on a local level and wasn't successful.

 

But that all doesn't mean folks shouldn't bring up ideas, could be that new mousetrap we've all been looking for. But please don't be discouraged when it's pointed out that we've 'been there, tried that, didn't work.'

 

Whatever you do, don't suggest that perhaps allowing 38s in Classic Cowboy would be a way to increase numbers in that category. I couldn't sit down for a month after I did that. Sometimes well meaning and sincere questions are met with less than helpful and constructive replies.

 

That's the view from my saddle, yours will likely vary.

Grizz

[Griff]

Chicago Ken,

 

In 1991, a few pards & I started a cowboy action club here in No. Texas... the folks at the SASS office had been helpful and provided a list of folks from this area that had inquired about SASS. I wrote them all a letter and introduced myself and our intent to start a local affiliated club. Some folks came out and joined the fun, others didn't. They've almost all come and gone on to other things.

 

One fellar sticks in my mind whenever I read suggestions of this ilk. He called me... one of the very few that did. He claimed to be VERY interested in joining us for our shoots... but... he didn't have all the gear, guns, clothing, etc. to fulfil HIS vision of what he wanted to look like. This was in the days when you only needed ONE sixgun, rifle & shotgun, and the clothing requirements were just about the same then as they are now. I don't recall exactly what he was missing at this point in time, but over the course of several months, we'd contact one another and see how we were progressing... I tried my damnedest to talk him into coming out anyway... but he had it set in his mind that only after he'd gotten the necessary gear and accouterments would he show up. Then came a long gap. I called him, his wife answered, and let me know that he was in the hospital. I called before our next match to again try to talk him into showing up, regardless of his clothing challenges... Every time we talked he seemed so eager to participate. Well, he'd never accumulate the necessary gear now. I often think of this fellar and the fact that for over 2 years he kept letting the silliness of not having a item or two negate the amount of FUN he could have been having.

 

I probably ain't the only pard or pardette that has had such an experience, and to date, we ain't collectively come up with a better answer than "...come on out see for yourself..." Consider that a failing grade if you will, but it ain't for lack of trying.

 

Frankly, even if we did pimp out the core of the game and let folks use non-SASS guns, forego all of the clothing requirements, some folks STILL wouldn't bother, and all we'd have accomplished is pimped out our honor in exchange for a few folks that didn't respect us enough in the first place.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

True Griff...

Through the years I have heard folks say, " If you let me shoot ----- gun , and I don't have to dress up...then I'd join!"

Well now... it wouldn't be Cowboy then, would it?

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

All SASS categories are entry level. You show up and say I'm new and I kinda think I would like to shoot "X." Some local pards will suggest a few things, help out with any missing equipment and help a new shooter through their first shoot. After a few shoots the new shooter knows for sure what he/she wants to do and adjusts their equipment requirements and moves on. Usually real friendly at the local level.

[Fast Enuff]

Most men already have the necessary clothes in the closet.

 

If you want to feel comfortable:

1) Contact the club, tell them you'd like to come shoot but you don't have the guns yet. They'll figure something out. Be considerate and ask whoever loans you the guns how much money he'd like for the ammo you'll shot that day... you'll likely be shooting his unless he says otherwise.

2) Put on some plain jeans and a long sleeve shirt.

3) If you're REALLY feeling it, get a super cheap cowboy hat or classic style straw hat.

4) Show up and have a good time.

 

That's pretty much what's involved in getting started in cowboy shooting. I know people feel self conscious about using others guns, but in this sport there really isn't a good other option and you'll find out quickly that it's just standard normal procedure. People love to help others get started.

[Nawlins Kid SASS #36107]

No, sir, I don't know the answer. Like you, I have just always known it to be so. Maybe PWB or another of the Rules Committee can.

BD

 

The original rifle requirement for B-Western was in keeping with what actually is seen on the Silver Screen and small silver screen. For example the 92 Winchester and the 94 Marlin

 

Nawlins

[Chicago Ken]

Sorry I really haven't been able to respond to this thread, Just drove from Washington state back home and was really tired.

 

Allot of people in this world do NOT like to barrow equipment. I am one of those. There is a certain level of responsibility you assume when barrowing things and basically, if I can't afford to replace it, I'm not barrowing it. (That little period at the end of that statement means allot, no give in that comment.) If I can afford to replace it, I'll just buy my own then.

 

That's the reason people need to be allowed to shoot what they brung. IE a newbie category. To be honest, I am ok with it being local level and not SASS, but I think SASS should support it to encourage joining.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

BD

I know it is not permitted to shoot a 73 in B-Western but I have never understood or been informed as to why. Can you enlighten me?

NCD

I have brought this up to the TGs and this Wire. It was a discussion item at the last Summit. The Wire responders and Summit attendees overwhelmingly said no to opening the category to any SASS-legal rifle.

[Griff]

Sorry I really haven't been able to respond to this thread, Just drove from Washington state back home and was really tired.

 

Allot of people in this world do NOT like to barrow equipment. I am one of those. There is a certain level of responsibility you assume when barrowing things and basically, if I can't afford to replace it, I'm not barrowing it. (That little period at the end of that statement means allot, no give in that comment.) If I can afford to replace it, I'll just buy my own then.

 

That's the reason people need to be allowed to shoot what they brung. IE a newbie category. To be honest, I am ok with it being local level and not SASS, but I think SASS should support it to encourage joining.

Ken,

 

I'm sure you'd find no shortage of respondents that'll tell ya that they were loaned guns when they first started out. I was. 1985, I thought I was properly equipped, but between reading an article in Guns & Ammo and finding out the when & where, they'd changed a rule and my downloaded, lead bullets in a 30-30 Winchester 94 was no longer legal. One of the future founding members of SASS loaned me a rifle, and insisted I use his ammo in it. A policy I maintain to this day, and recommend to others. I've seen the results of not doing that!

 

I know that if you were loaned one of my guns, and it broke, I'd feel worse than you would. No because the gun broke, they'll do that from time-to-time, but because it broke when you were using it! Heck it woulda broke whether you or I was usin' it! If others don't feel that way... ok, that's on them, but I kind of feel it's expected.