Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 As a newbie to the CAS environment, and still researching equipment I would like to keep the ammo in 38 special. When choosing a Lever Action Rifle or Revolver, most are listed as 357 mag. I believe that any 38 spl WILL NOT shoot 357 mag; however, will ALL 357 mag shoot 38 spl? Example: Marlin 1894CSS and Ruger Vaquero are listed as 357mag. Will they both shoot 38 spl ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Howdy, and happy spring forwards day, whatever it is...... YES. however be aware that 357 guns will build up a ring of deposits that must be removed from time to time. I personally had a used 357 that had poor care and wouldn't eject 357s. As near as we could tell, the firing chambers were pitted just enough so the fired 357 shells would stick and stick hard. This happening may depend on the exact alloys used in that cylinder. Ive also had 357 so crudded up that I had to use lewis lead remover to clean the cylinder. No permanent damage so far. Rugers are tough. These were made in the 50s. Good stuff. Before the day is over, someone will dig up an exception. And don't fergit yer canteen, pard. Best CR PS-deposit ring was the result of a LOT of very enthusiastic shooting over a short time. When I couldn't get a 38 into my ruger all the way, I knew it was time to do some cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 As CR stated, YES... 38's can be 'fired' in .357 rifles and pistols. Good feeding and good functioning of actions is another story. BUT... they will 'fire'. And as he stated, if you use the .38 fodder enough, a carbon ring can develop at the case mouth. And when you later try to use .357 brass fodder, you could encounter both feeding (or chambering) and extraction issues. Now, with all that being stated, when using the .38 and .357 in the same rifle (like a lever rifle), the timing needs to be appropriate for both length of rounds, In some lever rifles, the OAL of your ammo can become a critical issue in reliable feeding. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 this gizmo will clean the cylinders of the lead ring. works like a charm! http://www.longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/product&path=134&product_id=320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 As a newbie to the CAS environment, and still researching equipment I would like to keep the ammo in 38 special. When choosing a Lever Action Rifle or Revolver, most are listed as 357 mag. I believe that any 38 spl WILL NOT shoot 357 mag; however, will ALL 357 mag shoot 38 spl? Example: Marlin 1894CSS and Ruger Vaquero are listed as 357mag. Will they both shoot 38 spl ammo? The short answer is yes. But, the list of "except"s is rather convoluted. In your example, and that of the Rossi or Winchester 1982 designs, the angled feed of their carrier may make the particular gun more suited to a particular COAL (cartridge overall length). In the case of the Marlin this is a matter of timing so that the cartridge on the carrier will stop the next cartridge in the tube from joining is brother on the carrier. In the case of the Winchester/Rossi 1892, it is due to placement of the slots in the cartridge guides. Generally speaking, if you use the "standard" bullet weight of 158grains, or cartridge with that COAL, you'll encounter few, if any, problem guns. It's when one deviates from that with lighter slugs to reduce recoil that one encounters most issues. In the case of the 1866 & 1873 straight horizontal carrier, the only stop for cartridges in the magazine is the cartridge on the carrier. There is a slight ramp on the front of the carrier that will "push" any partial cartridge on the carrier back into the magazine. The angle of this ramp varies by production era of the gun. All my examples of this are in 45Colt. My early (1986) gun has a longer ramp than either of the later guns, (2009 & 2014). My early gun will feed shorter ammo than either of the later versions. Whether this correlates into the .357 versions, I don't know. I'm not a gunsmith, nor did I sleep at a Best Western last nite. What others have said about the crud ring is true. My two 1892s in .357/.38 are so marked... and have been fed both cartridges over the years I've had them... (like 28-30 years), regular cleaning with attention to the chambers from time to time, (while maybe not EVERY time I've shot them... but often enough apparently), I've not built up said ring. I view that phenomenon as a lack of cleanliness, or diligent maintenance if you prefer. Dirty powders, soft lead and type of lube all contribute to the speed with which the ring will develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 What Widder and Griff said.. Rance. Thinkin' on my '73 I had to address the ramp angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The link Hoss provided does not have a picture so don't know how well it will work. However a Lewis Lead Remover works like a champ and will not damage your gun. It uses brass screens which are much softer than steel and will not harm the finish of your gun. The Lewis Lead Remover comes with two separate parts to attach the screens to. The cone shaped one in the photo is for cleaning the lead from the inside of forcing cone at the rear of the barrel. The other part is a straight piece made for removing the lead in the cylinder and in the barrel. Extra screens are available as you wear them out. The other nice feature is it will clean 32 - 45 calibers. http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 My Winchester/Miroku 1892 will not feed anything shorter than 1.500. While this is within the blueprint OAL for 38 special I don't believe any manufacturers load to that length, so it's 357 only for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Father Kit Cool Gun Garth: 38 special brass is cheaper than 357 mag brass so CAS shooters prefer it. (Some brass is lost in weeds and props during matches.) Some shooters load 38 Special rounds extra-long to make them feed more reliably in their rifles. They do this by crimping in the lube groove instead of the crimp groove or loading extra-long bullets. Long bullets are available from several casters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothill Bandit, SASS# 48598 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The link Hoss provided does not have a picture so don't know how well it will work. However a Lewis Lead Remover works like a champ and will not damage your gun. It uses brass screens which are much softer than steel and will not harm the finish of your gun. The Lewis Lead Remover comes with two separate parts to attach the screens to. The cone shaped one in the photo is for cleaning the lead from the inside of forcing cone at the rear of the barrel. The other part is a straight piece made for removing the lead in the cylinder and in the barrel. Extra screens are available as you wear them out. The other nice feature is it will clean 32 - 45 calibers. http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx Here's a link and picture of the SliX Scraper: http://cowboybullets.com/SliX-Scraper_p_81.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 As a newbie to the CAS environment, and still researching equipment I would like to keep the ammo in 38 special. When choosing a Lever Action Rifle or Revolver, most are listed as 357 mag. I believe that any 38 spl WILL NOT shoot 357 mag; however, will ALL 357 mag shoot 38 spl? Example: Marlin 1894CSS and Ruger Vaquero are listed as 357mag. Will they both shoot 38 spl ammo? As you've probably noted, whilst you can do this - there are problems that then require extra work to overcome. Starline .357 magnum and .38 special brass are both going to $137 per thousand at Midway right now - why not just load everything in .357 mag and not create new problems? The loads are not that different, as the extra 1/8 inch case length will not alter your velocity much, but it will give generally more reliable performance in the rifle. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I have a pair of 357 Blackhawks that have digested thousands of rounds of 38 special. All twelve chambers still accept and extract 357 rounds with zero problem. YMMV. My main match rifles and 6guns will never see a 357 cartridge so there is no fear of the dreaded crud ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I've shot '73's and Marlin rifles with 38's with no problem, not so much luck with a stock '92 Rossi. I think any of the rifles we use can be made to function fine with 38's. I've shot Ruger and Uberti revolvers with no problem however I never use any .357 cases, I'd probably have to clean the chambers if I did. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconBlues Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I just obtained a new Winchester (Miroku) 1873 Trapper, and it perfectly feeds 125, 130 and 158 grain 38 Special. I haven't had the nerve to take it apart yet, but I am wondering if I will find some modification Miroku has made to ensure smooth an reliable feeding of the shorter 38 Specials, like some kind of cartridge stop perhaps. It's good, though, because I intend to shoot factory 38 Special through it exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly SASS #45219 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Fortunately, our own Snakebite designed a bullet specifically to load 38 Special brass to give .357 Mag SAAMI OAL cartridges. It is now known as the Big Lube®LLC Snakebite bullet. Molds are currently available. DD-MDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 My Winchester/Miroku 1892 will not feed anything shorter than 1.500. While this is within the blueprint OAL for 38 special I don't believe any manufacturers load to that length, so it's 357 only for it. These folks offer a long loaded 1.5" 38 special CUSTOM AMMO & RELOADING SERVICES,LLC 817-326-3855 Email; landjb7@charter.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.