J. Frank Norfleet Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I have been told that Federal primers have the softest cup and will take the lightest hammer strike. So is there any difference in hardness from say regular Federal large pistol primers to Federal magnum LP or Federal LP match primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 No. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Don't know, but if you are having to ask and have wonderment on the topic of primer sensitivity, your gun is set up to lite. Not putting you down, but just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Coyote' Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 All the same. Loading 45s I can't even tell a difference in preformance..... although the Match Grade box is prettier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I have been told that Federal primers have the softest cup and will take the lightest hammer strike. So is there any difference in hardness from say regular Federal large pistol primers to Federal magnum LP or Federal LP match primers? Federal primers can be used with lightened hammers and a light fast slap. I believe the large pistol is softer than the small pistol. They also work well with heavier hammers and a slower slap to an extent. The problem is that when you chase the lightest hammer strike you suffer slower lock times, spring binding, and require better technique and follow through in order to maintain accuracy. In a speed shooting game your returns diminish quickly. Light strikes absolutely destroy the best runs. It's a tool not a toy; adjust your hammer strike accordingly. In a double action Smith and Wesson revolver? Yes, between the large and the magnum you will need to increase the hammer spring strain by 0.010 to 0.020 in order to have them fire RELIABLY. The main difference between gold medal match and standard is cost. I measure along the middle of the strain screw the gap between the frame and the spring at rest. Wolff reduced power main spring. In a single action Ruger Vaquero? As long as you have a clean hammer strike on the firing pin, NO. Long Hunter spring kits. In a Codymatic '73 in .45 LC? The gun does not discern between them. Gunsmith ground stock springs. In a striker fired pistol? Yes it is possible to get your strike down light enough to make a difference in the primer preference. Usually this happens with people chasing one to two pound trigger pull and cutting coils or mismatched spring ratios. I believe in leaving everything with enough striking power to set off factory primed ammunition. If you create a gun that needs specialized ammunition, Mr. Murphy will be happy to ride with you to the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 22 April 2015 Update – Final Version: Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds using a 5/32” SS ball with 60 lbs load pressure Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass Old Additions = * New Additions = ** Pistol Primers **0.30 CCI 500 SP, lot K27U41 0.32 – CCI 300 LP ** 0.32 CCI 350 LPM, lot G10R 0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP 0.38 – Sellier & Bellot SP 0.38 – Sellier & Bellot LP 0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum 0.40 – Winchester - Western WLP 0.42 – Federal 150 LP 0.42 - Federal 100 SP *0.42 – Remington 1 ½ SP 0.44 – CCI 500 SP 0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP *0.48 – CCI LP Lot 0264 – old CCI primers Rifle Primers *0.24 – Herters 120 LR 0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR 0.28 – CCI 200 LR, lot H27M ** 0.28 Win-WLR, lot HNL347G ** 0.28 CCI 400 SR, lot CO1K *0.30 – Rem UMC Nickeled High Pressure LR ** 0.30 CCI 400 SR, lot E26U 0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum 0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR *0.36 – Western 8 ½ LR *0.38 - Rem 7 ½ Bench Rest *0.38 – Alcan LR Magnum *0.40 – Federal 210 LR *0.40 – Winchester 115 Staynless LR * 0.30 - Dynamit AG cal 6.34 * 0.32 - Dynamit AG cal 4.5 Note: All Lot Numbers were not recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 You have to love the wire for the best answers when it comes to stuff like this. I have a box of match federals I got as a prize so it sets on the shelf waiting for the day that will never come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Most of the manufacturers claim to use a little thicker brass on mag primers than they do for regular and match primers, to help resist blowing the primer cup under high pressure loads that they expect a mag primer to be used for. I would expect a mag primer to be slightly harder to set off because of that. But, it's not enough that I see any practical difference on a lightened Ruger Vaquero. I also have never seen ANY correlation between the hardness of the primer cup and the force needed to set off the primer compound. The hardest primers to ignite (CCI) often come out as the softest brass in the primer cup. Now, if someone would measure the force at which reliable ignition drops from 100% down to 99% of the time, that I would pay attention to! Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Thank you for all the replies. I bought an 1894 Marlin short stroked and tuned by Cowboy Carty. I am really loving the rifle. Since the rifle was set up for Federal primers I promptly loaded 2000 rounds using up all my Federal LP primers. It runs like a dream. I did a test run of S & B and got a lot of FtF. When I shopped for more Federals all I found locally were Magnum LP and Match Magnum LP. That is why I asked my question, thank you for your replies. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Did anyone take into consideration that primer hardness might not be the only consideration, could there be a difference in the actual primer compound sensitivity to impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Did anyone take into consideration that primer hardness might not be the only consideration, could there be a difference in the actual primer compound sensitivity to impact? Yep, see #8 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 could there be a difference in the actual primer compound sensitivity to impact? Doc, primer compounds across brands is pretty much standard. You can verify this your self by looking up the MSDS's by brand. You might be shocked with your readings but some primer compounds contain ground glass or aluminum to increase the briance And always remember ... any primer will ignite if it is hit Hard and Fast. With those that have race guns with modified main springs, the Hard become Softer and the Fast becomes Slow. BTW, my slicked up Rossi's will ignite any primer made, including the so called hardest - CCI's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheatin Charlie Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The government uses a drop test to check primers for acceptance. A certain weight at a certain hight must set off the primers 100% of the time. If you are really concerned about which primers are the easiest to set off a test jig could be made up and test all primers with it by changing weight or the height of the weight. Me I don't care until I run out of Federal primers I will just bang away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I use Federal primers and sometimes Winchester. I use the Magnum SP in either. All of my guns have been tuned and very seldom does a primer not go off. CCI for the longest time was thought to be the hardest primers. Now I'm not so sure since CCI is owned by the same corporation that owns Federal. I do use CCI magnum 209's and Winchester 209's if I can't get the CCI's. I have a brick of Federal 209's that's now resting in a box with a do NOT use sticker on the brick. I had loaded 2 boxes of shells for a weekend shoot and 8 out of the 50 were FTF's. I've never had that many FTF's from any other 209. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I have a brick of Federal 209's that's now resting in a box with a do NOT use sticker on the brick. I had loaded 2 boxes of shells for a weekend shoot and 8 out of the 50 were FTF's. I've never had that many FTF's from any other 209. Yep, I'd wager the primer cup (brass with priming compound in it) is set too deep in the battery cup (steel sleeve). Federal sometimes lets their machinery settings slip a little and set the primer cups deep. Then when loaded in shotshells, the primer cup does not get hit hard enough by guns with a light or weak firing pin stroke. My TTN hammered double spots those things immediately - the firing pin noses are real short, So, for that gun, I use Cheddite primers. They always leave the primer cup right up flush with the battery cup, so there's no problem with them getting set off by the firing pin. Have also had a lot of Winchester 209s that did not get good quality assurance and setup on the production line. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.