Winter Range

[twelve mile REB]

My hat is off to the entire WR crew. I believe the target placement and sweeps were fantastic. I really enjoy Bordertown. However, the variety at WR really challenged the shooters and made a lot of sense for the National Championship.

 

I am looking forward to returning to WR next year and will be pleased if the stages are done as well as they were this year.

 

NN

Nels had a little trouble very early in the match. Let me tell you he is anything but "Nasty" Unable to shoot he worked the remainder of the match helping with score cards or any other job. It was a pleasure to have him as a member of posse 32. Thank you for all your hard work Nels.

12 and Pat

[Marshal Stone, SASS #53366]

Hello to All!

 

Firstly I would like to again thank all of you who came, in some cases a very long way, to shoot our match! We all work very hard to make sure that you have a good time. You honored us by attending.....thank you!

 

I want to address some of the comments from a few of our shooters who felt that the target distances were somewhat farther out than they wanted to see. The fact is that target distances at WR have not changed......we maintain a mix of about 25% close in, 50% medium ranges and 25% a little farther out. This formula seems to work well for the vast majority of our shooters.

 

 

 

 

 

I write the stages and set the steel, with the help of my very fine crew. The buck, I can say, stops with me. My belief, and I know the it is the belief of the vast majority of shooters (including the Match Directors of EOT, and two the larger Divisionals), is that the National Championship (or any other large championship) should be a test of a shooters skill in all aspects of shooting. It should not only be a test of "how fast you operate or cycle your firearms", but a test of all shooting skills - targets in close - yes indeed, targets out a bit farther - yes indeed, and of course aerial targets, knockdowns and maybe moving targets. You may even have to think,just a little bit, when you shoot the Nationals....... This will never be a "Bordertown" match......we have Bordertown and other matches for that.

 

I too love to "spray and pray" at close and big targets, but Winter Range is a National Championship match, and will always be a test of the wider variety of a shooter's skills. We set 4 stages with revolver targets as close as 3.5 - 4.5 yards, and some at 7-8 yards. A top shooter will be able to address those situations without difficultly. Folks......our smallest target on the range is 18" (most are 22" and 24")......and when set at 7 yards, may just require to actually use your sights for a brief second. At the Nationals this is not an unreasonable standard.

 

I also believe this issue to be one of "perception". The fact is that some clubs across the country are moving their targets in very close, and of course this is fun for most. However, this in turn gives the incorrect impression that we have "moved ours out"......this is simply not the case. As I said earlier, our target distances have NOT changed, but shooters have become used to targets that are all in close, perhaps without variation / variety. Our formula has not changed, and yet we continue have sell out crowds......

 

I hope this post has given those of you who believe that we should all be shooting 2-3 yard revolver targets some perspective on what a National Championship should, and will continue, to be.

 

Warmest regards.....

Very well said BJZ. You and your crew put on an awesome match. Don't change a thing.

 

Marshal Stone

[Double Tap Taylor]

Thank you all that work at winter range. It was great. From posse 28 everything ran great. It was my first and will not be my last.

[Frederick Jackson Turner]

And now, for something completely different.

First of all - Winter Range is a World Class Event. The range is pristine, the props are non-pariel, and the AZ Rangers truly go out of their way to make the experience as enjoyable as possible. Let me empahsize this - EVERY SINGLE AZ RANGER that I interacted with had a smile and was as helpful as could be, all week long. I can't imagine how much of a stretch it is to get the range that nice, match assembled,etc - they were, without fail, outstanding. I mean it - from registration to the warm-up bays, never mind the hours or the heat - they were determined to care for the shooters.

 

Second; They even had a couple of flyovers and - FIREWORKS!!! It was a good show, too! Seriously - Wow!

 

Third; The matches. The Wild Bunch Match was THE BEST I have ever seen at WR or Eot - it was an ACTION match - with running and gunning, target distances that kept in mind the intended function of a pistol - it was simply TERRIFIC.

 

The Cowboy Match - is real work. The shotgun KDs were good, the rifle distances reasonable, and the pistols - could mostly have been in one full pace. I appreciate Zak's thoughts and efforts on the topic - but it's more work than fun. 4.5% Clean shooters is a bit on the low side. In my mind - it's kind of like skiing. If you think it's too easy, try going faster.

 

That's all I could possibly criticize. Absolutely every other part of Winter Range was exemplary, and I would encourage anyone who has never been, go. to see what a World Class event looks, and feels like. Outstanding work, AZ Rangers.

 

Frederick Jackson Turner

[Nashville Frank, SASS # 49204]

Well said. Frederick Jackson Turner! A really great match, and smooth stages. I love the "WR experience".

 

But I would like to see 75% of the targets a bit closer, and hopefully some more clean shooters.

 

Anyway, for me, my five revolvermisses were on the close ones. Of course.

[Crazy Mingo]

Heeee Haaaa, A big Thank You to BJZ and the rest of the crew.. AWESOME match.. Simple mistakes took me out this time but I'll definitely be back.. Thanks again for the weather..

 

Heeee Haaaaa Crazy Mingo

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

Could the fact that WR is the national championship match and that more shooters may be pushing the limits of their ability, be a contributing factor to there being less clean shooters? Smokin Gator

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Could the fact that WR is the national championship match and that more shooters may be pushing the limits of their ability, be a contributing factor to there being less clean shooters? Smokin Gator

Not if you look at the percentage of clean shooters of past years. I did not feel the match target distances were different than past years. I managed to hit every target in the correct order. A nasty stage DQ kept me from being clean (I holstered a cocked empty pistol).

[Deadeye George]

It seems like way too many folks are hung up on the low percentage of clean shooters as if this is some sort of a measure of a successful match. Is it really that big of a deal to everyone? Would everyone feel better if you attended a shoot where 28.22%, 42.333% or even 53.625% of the shooters had clean matches? If so, why not talk to all your friends and get together once or twice a month for target practice, that way next year your bunch just might raise the percentage of clean shooters and no will have anything to gripe about!

 

Personally I would rather see a national champion shooter who not only is fast but is accurate as well rather than a super fast shooter who is a lousy shot!

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

This having been my 10th Winter Range in a row I feel I can speak from a little bit of experience. I do not feel that the target distances this year were really any different than years past. Winter Range has always been a challenging match when compared to many other venues. In my mind that does not make the other venues any less of a test of shooters, just different. I have been fortunate to have a fair amount of competitive success in this game over the last 14 years, I have to say that I hold my Overall National Championship as my greatest accomplishment. The reason is simple, Winter Range is straight up the toughest match I shoot all year. BJZ and his awesome crew put on a event that sets the gold standard for match production. This years match was no exception and I can say with 100% certainty that it's THE funniest week I have ever had cowboy shooting. Every shooter is a customer, and every customer has a right to their opinion. When It comes to match production I don't think there is a wrong or right. Every match has it's own identity. And WR is a match that challenges the shooter in a variety of ways. I already look forward to next year. Congrats to BJZ and his entire crew on a match well run.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

And now, for something completely different.

First of all - Winter Range is a World Class Event. The range is pristine, the props are non-pariel, and the AZ Rangers truly go out of their way to make the experience as enjoyable as possible. Let me empahsize this - EVERY SINGLE AZ RANGER that I interacted with had a smile and was as helpful as could be, all week long. I can't imagine how much of a stretch it is to get the range that nice, match assembled,etc - they were, without fail, outstanding. I mean it - from registration to the warm-up bays, never mind the hours or the heat - they were determined to care for the shooters.

 

Second; They even had a couple of flyovers and - FIREWORKS!!! It was a good show, too! Seriously - Wow!

 

Third; The matches. The Wild Bunch Match was THE BEST I have ever seen at WR or Eot - it was an ACTION match - with running and gunning, target distances that kept in mind the intended function of a pistol - it was simply TERRIFIC.

 

The Cowboy Match - is real work. The shotgun KDs were good, the rifle distances reasonable, and the pistols - could mostly have been in one full pace. I appreciate Zak's thoughts and efforts on the topic - but it's more work than fun. 4.5% Clean shooters is a bit on the low side. In my mind - it's kind of like skiing. If you think it's too easy, try going faster.

 

That's all I could possibly criticize. Absolutely every other part of Winter Range was exemplary, and I would encourage anyone who has never been, go. to see what a World Class event looks, and feels like. Outstanding work, AZ Rangers.

 

Frederick Jackson Turner

Excellent assessment.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

It seems like way too many folks are hung up on the low percentage of clean shooters as if this is some sort of a measure of a successful match. Is it really that big of a deal to everyone? Would everyone feel better if you attended a shoot where 28.22%, 42.333% or even 53.625% of the shooters had clean matches? If so, why not talk to all your friends and get together once or twice a month for target practice, that way next year your bunch just might raise the percentage of clean shooters and no will have anything to gripe about!

 

Personally I would rather see a national champion shooter who not only is fast but is accurate as well rather than a super fast shooter who is a lousy shot!

For a feller that didn't participate in the match, you seem awfully opinionated. Might not hurt to let off the gas a bit.

[Snakebite]

This having been my 10th Winter Range in a row I feel I can speak from a little bit of experience. I do not feel that the target distances this year were really any different than years past. Winter Range has always been a challenging match when compared to many other venues. In my mind that does not make the other venues any less of a test of shooters, just different. I have been fortunate to have a fair amount of competitive success in this game over the last 14 years, I have to say that I hold my Overall National Championship as my greatest accomplishment. The reason is simple, Winter Range is straight up the toughest match I shoot all year. BJZ and his awesome crew put on a event that sets the gold standard for match production. This years match was no exception and I can say with 100% certainty that it's THE funniest week I have ever had cowboy shooting. Every shooter is a customer, and every customer has a right to their opinion. When It comes to match production I don't think there is a wrong or right. Every match has it's own identity. And WR is a match that challenges the shooter in a variety of ways. I already look forward to next year. Congrats to BJZ and his entire crew on a match well run.

Very well said... I too have attended many, if not most of the WR matches. From sweat hot days to rain, sleet, snow and mud, you never know what is coming at you when you attend WR... about the only constant in the equation is the certainty that the Match itself will be excellent and fitting for the number one Cowboy Action Shooting Match in the World.

 

Snakebite

[Deadeye George]

For a feller that didn't participate in the match, you seem awfully opinionated. Might not hurt to let off the gas a bit.

Your right I didn't participate, I had cataract surgery the week before the match which was scheduled for months and my doctor strongly objected to me doing any shooting, mainly shotgun where any sudden jerky motions could possibly dislodge the newly implanted lens. I did however drive down to root my fellow club members on and I do have eyes and from what I saw every where you looked folks were having fun yet when you visit this forum one would think it was the match from hell with all the bellyaching going on with members getting their calculators out figuring out to two decimal places, what the percentages were for non clean shoots. I figure I have just as much right to voice my opinion as anyone else since the last I heard voicing ones opinion wasn't reserved to a select few even though a select few think their opinions are the only ones that matter around here.

 

My point is simple...... rather than constantly gripe about targets being too far, targets being too small, not enough clean shoots at matches, do something about it....... try working on your marksmanship!

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Your right I didn't participate, I had cataract surgery the week before the match which was scheduled for months and my doctor strongly objected to me doing any shooting, mainly shotgun where any sudden jerky motions could possibly dislodge the newly implanted lens. I did however drive down to root my fellow club members on and I do have eyes and from what I saw every where you looked folks were having fun yet when you visit this forum one would think it was the match from hell with all the bellyaching going on with members getting their calculators out figuring out to two decimal places, what the percentages were for non clean shoots. I figure I have just as much right to voice my opinion as anyone else since the last I heard voicing ones opinion wasn't reserved to a select few even though a select few think their opinions are the only ones that matter around here.

 

My point is simple...... rather than constantly gripe about targets being too far, targets being too small, not enough clean shoots at matches, do something about it....... try working on your marksmanship!

Deadeye George, just out of curiosity what is your expereience in SASS/CAS match production?

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

It seems like way too many folks are hung up on the low percentage of clean shooters as if this is some sort of a measure of a successful match. Is it really that big of a deal to everyone? Would everyone feel better if you attended a shoot where 28.22%, 42.333% or even 53.625% of the shooters had clean matches? If so, why not talk to all your friends and get together once or twice a month for target practice, that way next year your bunch just might raise the percentage of clean shooters and no will have anything to gripe about!

 

Personally I would rather see a national champion shooter who not only is fast but is accurate as well rather than a super fast shooter who is a lousy shot!

Can you name any shooter that won his or her category, not to mention being an overall winner at WR in the 25 year history that is a lousy shot?

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

Winter Range is challenging. Period. And well it should be, it's the National Championship of Cowboy Action Shooting, the big Kahuna. In my opinion (for what that might be worth), the number of clean shooters isn't the measure of a match, the positive comments and the smiles on the shooters' faces and the number of people who come back year after year are the true measures of a match, and there's a bunch of repeat shooters at Winter Range, me among them. I've done two so far, 2014 and 2016 (can't afford to go more often) and I'm planing to be back in 2018 even though 2016 was pretty much a train wreck from one end to the other for me. Don't matter, I'm comin' back anyway, and I've got two years to practice!

 

We used to tell our high school rodeo kids during roping practice, "This one is for the Dodge dualie and the Silverado horse trailer!", but CAS is just the opposite. You get the satisfaction of a match well shot, or the chagrin of a screwup (yup, happened to me) that takes you totally out of contention, but either way at the end of the day you ain't gonna make your living shooting CAS matches. Belt buckles come and go, but the friends you make can last a lifetime, and that's what matches are for: making friends and making memories. You can choose to practice and shoot an amazing match; you can choose to practice and have a total train wreck; or you can choose to not practice at all and just go and shoot and have a good time. What you take away from a match, and especially a match like Winter Range, is up to you.

 

Black Jack Zac wrote some amazing stages with a variety of target distances, sequences, etc. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of shooters at Winter Range had one heckuva good time whether they placed or not, and as they say, "If you don't like the stages, write 'em yourself next time!" Or stay home and let the rest of us enjoy the match...

[Deadeye George]

Deadeye George, just out of curiosity what is your expereience in SASS/CAS match production?

I don't understand what you mean by match production! Are you asking how many matches I have organized, if so the answer is zero but I fail to see how that is relevant to me having an opinion or not. Have you asked the same question of all those in this thread who are complaining about the targets being too far away? Granted I'm new to cowboy shooting having only participated in local club shoots here in Arizona but I know enough to form my own opinions as have others. I wanted to attend Bordertown until I learned that it was like shooting fish in a barrel with huge targets so close you could spit on them. That is why I liked the arrangement at Winter range so well and can't wait to shoot it next year and I don't understand why so many shooters always complain about the targets as they have in this thread. Could it be that they were lower in the rankings than they thought they should be and needed something to blame it on and the targets being small and too far away is just as good an excuse as any? Looks like Winter Range is doing a fine job of having plenty of repeat shooters year after year so they are doing something right, I just don't get why so many have to find something wrong with the setup.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

I wanted to attend Bordertown until I learned that it was like shooting fish in a barrel with huge targets so close you could spit on them.

Whassamatter, scared you might miss? Don't worry, you wouldn't be the first one.

[Noah Cash]

We had a great time as well. It was my 3rd W/R and Hilda Billie's 1st as a participant. As far as the number of Clean Match shooters, My thoughts are those who wanted to get a clean match most certainly could. We all know our limitations and just how much we can or can't push ourselves. I didn't achieve the clean match, just trying to push myself a bit and forgot to check out that bump on the end of the barrel! Hilda Billie was apprehensive at first, and regretting being a participant. Just a case of first time nerves. as she realized that it was COMPLETELY DOEABLE, she calmed down and had an absolute great time. She went from dreading her participation to (after the final round went off, and CLEAN MATCH" "Next year I'll be back and do it faster" She is real happy to have the white pin on her shooting hats.

 

Thanks to BJZ, and all the Rangers and to Lead Bender, 12 Mile Reb and Pat. You guys are the best. Posse 32 was the best ever.

N.C.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

 

I wonder how many competitors at WR have much of a chance to shoot during the previous months leading up to WR.

 

Just wondering.

 

A hearty Congratulations to all the Category winners.

 

 

..........Widder

[Singin' Sue 71615]

Hello to All!

 

Firstly I would like to again thank all of you who came, in some cases a very long way, to shoot our match! We all work very hard to make sure that you have a good time. You honored us by attending.....thank you!

 

I want to address some of the comments from a few of our shooters who felt that the target distances were somewhat farther out than they wanted to see. The fact is that target distances at WR have not changed......we maintain a mix of about 25% close in, 50% medium ranges and 25% a little farther out. This formula seems to work well for the vast majority of our shooters.

 

I write the stages and set the steel, with the help of my very fine crew. The buck, I can say, stops with me. My belief, and I know the it is the belief of the vast majority of shooters (including the Match Directors of EOT, and two the larger Divisionals), is that the National Championship (or any other large championship) should be a test of a shooters skill in all aspects of shooting. It should not only be a test of "how fast you operate or cycle your firearms", but a test of all shooting skills - targets in close - yes indeed, targets out a bit farther - yes indeed, and of course aerial targets, knockdowns and maybe moving targets. You may even have to think,just a little bit, when you shoot the Nationals....... This will never be a "Bordertown" match......we have Bordertown and other matches for that.

 

I too love to "spray and pray" at close and big targets, but Winter Range is a National Championship match, and will always be a test of the wider variety of a shooter's skills. We set 4 stages with revolver targets as close as 3.5 - 4.5 yards, and some at 7-8 yards. A top shooter will be able to address those situations without difficultly. Folks......our smallest target on the range is 18" (most are 22" and 24")......and when set at 7 yards, may just require to actually use your sights for a brief second. At the Nationals this is not an unreasonable standard.

 

I also believe this issue to be one of "perception". The fact is that some clubs across the country are moving their targets in very close, and of course this is fun for most. However, this in turn gives the incorrect impression that we have "moved ours out"......this is simply not the case. As I said earlier, our target distances have NOT changed, but shooters have become used to targets that are all in close, perhaps without variation / variety. Our formula has not changed, and yet we continue have sell out crowds......

 

I hope this post has given those of you who believe that we should all be shooting 2-3 yard revolver targets some perspective on what a National Championship should, and will continue, to be.

 

Warmest regards.....

[Singin' Sue 71615]

I so very enjoyed all of WR this year!!!

Everyone who knows me, is aware I am not the best shooter, nor the worst!!!

I do enjoy a bit of challenge, how else will I improve??

I heard nothing but positive remarks while on sight!!

I feel another year of ' job,well done' has been achieved!

See you next year!

Already working on moving up a slot!!

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Howdy;

This was my first WR ...

I found target placement to my liking...

All were hit-a-ble ...

Most of my misses were rounds that didn't go bang because of extra baking time and higher temps (down South) and someone( Clearing one of my guns before I got to the unloading table)

Bending the firing pin in my R M conversions ...

I need to clean cylinder faces more in these conditions ...

 

I was on Texas Slims (Nation) and what fine group this was !!!

 

The shooting was the best part of the event ...

Plus meeting some folks I hold in high regard ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy