? for Law Dawgs

[Widder, SASS #59054]

This question came to me while watching one of the CSI shows on TV.

 

At a multi-murder scene, a wounded survivor was found. He's sent to the hospital for emergency surgery.

 

While he is in recovery and still 'groggie', CSI agent does a mini question interview.

 

QUESTION: under medication, if that survivor makes a statement, can anything he/she says be held against them (legally speaking)?

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Presidio]

I would think not. Kinda like being under duress.

 

 

 

But, I've been wrong more'n once in this lifetime......so

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Would depend on the jurisdiction. Would also depend on circumstances, the Judge, the Persecutor and the Defense. No Yes or No. Grey.

 

Coffinmaker

[Alpo]

I have not seen, on TV, cops question people under medication, but I have seen them question drunk suspects.

 

Seems like that oughta be illegal.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I'm thinking if a cop pulls someone over and suspects they're under the influence they can still question them.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

The US Supreme Court has ruled severe intoxication from alcohol or drugs, or injuries which cause a person to lack lucidity, make a person unable to understand their right to remain silent. Therefore, their statements are inadmissible.

 

The question is whether the person's intoxicated state / injury was severe enough to invoke this ruling. In my experience, it's generally invoked when someone is barely conscious or is uttering ridiculous sentences. I once had a drunk driver involved in a crash answer the question, "What happened?" with "I eat a bologna sandwich!"

 

The entire conversation was pretty much like that. The funny thing is, since the legal question was 1) whether he was driving and 2) whether he was drunk, the statements WERE admissible to show his state of intoxication. They were NOT admissible when discussing the events leading up to what caused the crash. In other words, the court ruled that acting like a drunk is evidence of being drunk (especially when combined with all the other factors like odor alcohol, etc.), but he was too intoxicated to tell me how the crash occurred.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Oh yeah, I had another drunk driver who was too drunk to sit. Yes, I typed that correctly. He couldn't even sit in the back seat of my patrol car; he kept sliding down the seat and crumpling up on a pile on the floor. He peed himself, too. I seat belted him in to preserve his human dignity, but he slid right under the belt and onto the floor, like a slinky. It was like arresting a wet noodle.

 

After that I had an ambulance come to the scene and hospitalize him for alcohol poisoning. Yes, he had been driving. He made ridiculous statements, too. He claimed to be an emperor. His 1993 Toyota Celica told me that was unlikely. His sentences weren't even coherent, either. He once uttered, "Twelve point step friends" in response to an inquiry about his next of kin. That comment made me think he was a backsliding AA member because of their 12 point recovery program.

 

His statements were admissible.

 

However, I had a different drunk driver one time. Here is the rub: I arrested the drunk driver after the field investigations (the street tests you see on Cops). He was just as drunk as the jabronies I've described to you. After the arrest, I mirandized him and questioned him further (street tests count as "investigatory detention," which is a mid-tier of intrusion and does not require miranda). All of his statements after miranda were ruled non-admissible because he was too drunk to understand his rights. Everything he said prior to miranda was good to go.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

That is a express route to lose your case......Gotta follow the rules, its all about due process of law, after all that is what Miranda vs AZ is all about. TV is fiction.

[Utah Bob #35998]

In the real world, CSI people don't question anybody.

[Alpo]

Going off on a tangent, my favorite drunk story.

 

I was a witness to a traffic accident. Called the law, cops took my name and info as a witness.

 

Couple of days later I get a phone call from an insurance company. "I understand you were a witness to a traffic accident at STREET and STREET, two nights ago?"

 

I allowed as how I was.

 

"We insure one of the drivers involved in the accident."

 

So I say, "Which one? The old man in the Lincoln, that got hit, or the drunk in the pickup truck that ran the red light?"

 

A little dead air, then he says, "Is that what happened?"

 

Yep.

 

Little more dead air, then, "Well, thank you for the information." And just before he hung up he said quietly, "The drunk in the pickup."

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

In the real world, CSI people don't question anybody.

+1

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

In the real world, CSI people don't question anybody.

Always thought that was the way it happened.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I had a crash in 1970. Snowy night, car coming in my direction fish tailing. He was about 90 degrees to the road when we collided.

 

When his insurance guy called me, he said "My client says you swerved and you say he swerved, we can't do anything."

 

I said, "Well if I swerved, I would have torn his bumper off or at least made it bent back behind the car. But if you look at it it crumpled and is a good foot shorter. Plus, I am not the one the State Police took to the station."

 

Him: "Just a minute, I'll call you back."

[Sedalia Dave]

I had a crash in 1970. Snowy night, car coming in my direction fish tailing. He was about 90 degrees to the road when we collided.

 

When his insurance guy called me, he said "My client says you swerved and you say he swerved, we can't do anything."

 

I said, "Well if I swerved, I would have torn his bumper off or at least made it bent back behind the car. But if you look at it it crumpled and is a good foot shorter. Plus, I am not the one the State Police took to the station."

 

Him: "Just a minute, I'll call you back."

 

Friend at work had a gal back into the driver side of his truck 4 day old truck on a post office parking lot. She told the insurance company he backed into her. He sent them pictures of the side of his truck with full length of her bumper firmly implanted in the side of the cab and forward part of the bed.

Under the picture he wrote just how did I manage to back into her car when it is the SIDE of my truck that it dented??? Her insurance still attempted to say he was atleast partially at fault until he got a lawyer. Then they changed their tune.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Not a drunk story but I was once hit by a guy making a left turn against a red light. Pissed me off. My car was brand new. He was a Spanish tourist in a rental car. As I was calling it in he asked "Why are you calling the Policia? In Spain, if no one is keeled, we just drive away. "

I informed him the rules were different here.Officer came and was was looking at the traffic light pattern as I explained what happened. The Tourista was rambling on and on. The officer asked him which direction he was heading and he said (I swear). "I was going to the court to pay this espeeding ticket which I received yesterday which is ridiculous because how can you get a ticket for espeeding when you don't even know what the espeed limit is?"

The officer handed me back my license, gave me the case number and said "Have a nice day sir". The Spaniard was still talking and the officer was still writing tickets as I drove off.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

In 1988, I was in my brand NEW Chevy Silverado (about a week old), sitting at a red lite with 2 left turn lanes.

 

Of the 2 left turn lanes, I was in the right (or outer) lane.

 

At the green ARROW, I proceeded to swing wide and stay in the outer lane while the person next to me actually wanted to go straight and not turn at all (go figure).

 

Soooo, she (yes, it was a woman driver) hit my rear quarter panel and ruined my new truck. But here is the good part: right behind her in the turn lane was a Police Lady who witnessed the whole thing.

 

 

..........Widder

[Ramblin Gambler]

He was a Spanish tourist in a rental car. As I was calling it in he asked "Why are you calling the Policia? In Spain, if no one is keeled, we just drive away. "

 

Knowing the law is important. I'm from Texas and went to college in Louisiana. I hit someone in the parking lot. I knew who it was so I went to his room and told him I hit his car then when I left I told him I'd call my parents to see what to do next. He thought I said I would call the cops because while it's optional in TX, it's mandatory in LA. Couple hours later he had tired of waiting for me and I had a cop show up to my door reading me my miranda rights because I hit and ran. Fortunately it was a campus cop and he was aware of the differences in the law between the 2 states.

 

There really should be a pamphlet available when you travel between states highlighting the minor differences like that. They could hand it to you when you register as an out of state student and probably save folks from a lot of trouble.

[Alpo]

Many years back, at work, I was sent to another branch (this was a bank), and as I was backing out I ran into a coworker's car. I went inside, said, "Tim, I just backed into your car. I got to go make a delivery, but when I get back we'll take care of this."

 

Tim, being seventeen, was worried about doing the right thing, so he called his insurance company. They asked, "Is the other driver still there?", he said NO and they said, "Call the cops."

 

So when I show up back at the bank, the cops are gonna arrest me for hit-n-run and leaving the scene of an accident.

 

Fortunately, when I said, "BUT I TOLD HIM I HIT HIM!!", Tim agreed that I had done that, and when the cops asked, "Well, why'd you call us?" he said his insurance company told him to. They made rude noises about the insurance company and left.

[Rolling Stone]

Widder,

Do you have any insights concerning the Gatlinburg detective and the Ooltewah Police Chief?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Widder,

Do you have any insights concerning the Gatlinburg detective and the Ooltewah Police Chief?

 

Sorri, I'm out of the loop on these things.

 

 

..........Widder

[Dubious Don #56333]

Insurance companies like for cops to write tickets because it makes their job easier. There is a difference between "fault" and "responsible". For instance;

 

You're boogying along and slow for traffic. The dude behind you runs into the back of your car. In Arizona that ticket would be Failure to Control Speed to Avoid a Collision. Who's at fault? I don't determine fault, I determine if a driver is responsible for breaking a traffic law or not and write them a ticket. Or not. Insurance companies hate cops like me because I don't always write a ticket and then THEY have to determine "fault".

 

Mitigating circumstances.

He was speeding

He was texting

He stopped suddenly because of other traffic

He stopped suddenly because he's a jerk (brake-checking)

He stopped suddenly because some other moron swerved into his lane

 

How does the cop get his story? He asks the driver. If one (or more) is a bit loopy from too much happy drink/drug would that be a factor to consider? Yeah, but you still said it.