Looking for a Win 97 clone gunsmith for repair

[Paladin Ralph]

Not Cap but as I mentioned in another post, you should probably disassemble the action by removing the bolt, carrier and trigger group. And a 97 only has one bar from the action slide that works the action. On the left hand side of the gun.

Yep one rod.

[Paladin Ralph]

No one locally has the inside pipe wrench, not Ace, Home Depot or Lowes, at least one to fit the mag tube so I Googled it and found one in NY and ordered it.

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

Paladin Ralph,

 

You have to remove the complete forearm, slide and magazine tube, before you can even try to disassemble the rest of an M-97.

 

However, from what you have posted , it sounds like you have missed an unloading step and your problem may be far simpler than you thought !

 

Question,

Are you attempting to push the live ammo from the front if the mag tube back into the frame?

 

If so, have you opened the action with the bolt all the way to the rear and the carrier fully down?

 

You have an. "09" model with shell stop cartridge release buttons on both sides of the frame. You need to be pushing both of those buttons, while pushing the follower back down in the tube.

 

If you don't push those buttons, the rims of the cartridges cannot back out of the mag tube.

 

You can do the same thing with the action closed by pushing those two buttons and the shells will fall out onto the floor.

 

(It takes two people to do this though).

 

You mentioned after you removed the end cap and spring, the follower will not come out of the rear of the mag tube. (Interesting)!

 

This tells me you have some shot stuck between the side of the follower and mag tube, and not between the cartridges (which would be a bad thing if there is some shot up against the primer)

 

A customer had a problem like this years ago with a Winchester 97 that he had leaned up against the side of his truck and then backed up and he forgot he left the gun leaning on the truck and he backed over it, bending the mag tube.

 

I used a 3/4" dowel rod down the mag tube and pointed the barrel towards the ground with the dowel rod touching the ground. I gently tapped the rear if the buttstock with a rubber hammer while he held the two buttons down and the mag tube was easily emptied !

 

When I got back to the shop, I used my mag tube dent remover tool to straighten the bent mag.

 

Anyway - I hope this info helps you ?

 

"Coyote Cap"

[Paladin Ralph]

Paladin Ralph,

 

You have to remove the complete forearm, slide and magazine tube, before you can even try to disassemble the rest of an M-97.

 

However, from what you have posted , it sounds like you have missed an unloading step and your problem may be far simpler than you thought !

 

Question,

Are you attempting to push the live ammo from the front if the mag tube back into the frame?

 

If so, have you opened the action with the bolt all the way to the rear and the carrier fully down?

 

You have an. "09" model with shell stop cartridge release buttons on both sides of the frame. You need to be pushing both of those buttons, while pushing the follower back down in the tube.

 

If you don't push those buttons, the rims of the cartridges cannot back out of the mag tube.

 

You can do the same thing with the action closed by pushing those two buttons and the shells will fall out onto the floor.

 

(It takes two people to do this though).

 

You mentioned after you removed the end cap and spring, the follower will not come out of the rear of the mag tube. (Interesting)!

 

This tells me you have some shot stuck between the side of the follower and mag tube, and not between the cartridges (which would be a bad thing if there is some shot up against the primer)

 

A customer had a problem like this years ago with a Winchester 97 that he had leaned up against the side of his truck and then backed up and he forgot he left the gun leaning on the truck and he backed over it, bending the mag tube.

 

I used a 3/4" dowel rod down the mag tube and pointed the barrel towards the ground with the dowel rod touching the ground. I gently tapped the rear if the buttstock with a rubber hammer while he held the two buttons down and the mag tube was easily emptied !

 

When I got back to the shop, I used my mag tube dent remover tool to straighten the bent mag.

 

Anyway - I hope this info helps you ?

 

"Coyote Cap"

Thanks again Cap,

 

Yes I am concerned with loose shot on a primer.

 

After more inspecting and looking into the tube with a LED light, the follower is what is jambed 7.25" from the front. The rounds are sliding back and forth so the 3 total 6.75" long and the 7.25" where the follower is stuck leaves about an inch of play in the 16" tube. It racks freely, but doesnt load shells. I suppose that is because nothing is pushing them into the fingers.

 

I dont have any "buttons" on the frame but the fingers that grab the shell can be pushed in, but I cant push the shells from the front because of the jambed follower. Yes I will need help to do both unless I use a spring clamps and have several in various sizes. I have an extensive wood shop.

 

Everything you have told me is VERY helpful.

 

I think my next step is to put a 3/4" dowel in the mag tube from the front, take it outside and set the dowel on the ground, turn the breach opening away from me, then tap the butt stock with my dead blow hammer. Before I hit it, hold the gun on its side and shake it to get the shot on one side, then slowly stand it up to keep the shot there. If one explodes, the force can exit out the bottom of the tube or out the frame opening and I may have a 97 sky rocket. Any projectiles will eight exit into the ground or away from me, if it doesnt blow up the tube.

 

I load for low recoil to protect my new stainless steel shoulder so the loads are 3/4 oz with 13.4 grs of Clay Dot pushing them. They chrono at 900 FPS and are softer then the Win low recoil factory loads.

 

Could this load, in this situation blow a hole in my mag tube? The tube isnt as strong as the barrel. That is what scares me, schrapenel.

 

I could go to Lowes and get a piece of Sch 40 sewer pipe and set the whole works in that as a safety shield.

 

What's your opening sir?

 

Thanks,

 

Paladin Ralph

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

My opening would probably be not to post smokeless powder loads for my shotshells in my Wire entries. My second move would be to remove that data after folks notice that I had done that.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Thanks again Cap,

 

Yes I am concerned with loose shot on a primer.

 

After more inspecting and looking into the tube with a LED light, the follower is what is jambed 7.25" from the front. The rounds are sliding back and forth so the 3 total 6.75" long and the 7.25" where the follower is stuck leaves about an inch of play in the 16" tube. It racks freely, but doesnt load shells. I suppose that is because nothing is pushing them into the fingers.

 

I dont have any "buttons" on the frame but the fingers that grab the shell can be pushed in, but I cant push the shells from the front because of the jambed follower. Yes I will need help to do both unless I use a spring clamps and have several in various sizes. I have an extensive wood shop.

 

Everything you have told me is VERY helpful.

 

I think my next step is to put a 3/4" dowel in the mag tube from the front, take it outside and set the dowel on the ground, turn the breach opening away from me, then tap the butt stock with my dead blow hammer. Before I hit it, hold the gun on its side and shake it to get the shot on one side, then slowly stand it up to keep the shot there. If one explodes, the force can exit out the bottom of the tube or out the frame opening and I may have a 97 sky rocket. Any projectiles will eight exit into the ground or away from me, if it doesnt blow up the tube.

 

I load for low recoil to protect my new stainless steel shoulder so the loads are 3/4 oz with 13.4 grs of Clay Dot pushing them. They chrono at 900 FPS and are softer then the Win low recoil factory loads.

 

Could this load, in this situation blow a hole in my mag tube? The tube isnt as strong as the barrel. That is what scares me, schrapenel.

 

I could go to Lowes and get a piece of Sch 40 sewer pipe and set the whole works in that as a safety shield.

 

What's your opening sir?

 

Thanks,

 

Paladin Ralph

 

I think if you're going to try this, you need to remove the cartridge stops first. In fact, I'd remove ALL of the internals before trying this (talking about the dowel idea)

 

I would posit a guess that once the cartridge stops are pulled the shells may just fall out, or you will be able to work them out with a little wiggling/twisting action of the shell or using a pick.

 

You won't blow a hole in the mag tube, you will split it. It will may also damage the barrel and maybe even the receiver. depending on how pieces exit the firearm. THIS is why I say disassemble it as fully as possible.

 

Also, I would recommend a paper overshot card on your shells until you're sure you've got the crimp issues worked out 100%

[Paladin Ralph]

 

I think if you're going to try this, you need to remove the cartridge stops first. In fact, I'd remove ALL of the internals before trying this (talking about the dowel idea)

 

I would posit a guess that once the cartridge stops are pulled the shells may just fall out, or you will be able to work them out with a little wiggling/twisting action of the shell or using a pick.

 

You won't blow a hole in the mag tube, you will split it. It will may also damage the barrel and maybe even the receiver. depending on how pieces exit the firearm. THIS is why I say disassemble it as fully as possible.

 

Also, I would recommend a paper overshot card on your shells until you're sure you've got the crimp issues worked out 100%

Thanks HD,

 

I was using paper over the shot with the Load All and was hoping the MEC would eliminate that step. I think I have the MEC dialed in now so it closes very good, with just a small pin hole. I was trying to use the ones up that were holding, so I guess I will pull the 8 boxes I have left, at least I can save the shot, shoot them as blanks and reload..

 

Im gonna try using some metal dental type picks to see if I can pull the loose shells out first. I really dont like takeing any gun appart because I can never get them back together again and end up having to send them off to a smith. I took my Vaquero apart to clean the inards and even with watching the YouTube about 30 times, it didnt go back the way it showed so I had to ship them off, same with my BSS and my 66. My long guns are so well $traveled I got a hvy duty plastic case and box to ship them round trip in.

 

Gonna try the pics now,

thanks

ralph

[G W Wade]

Have not followed the post completely, but describing your situation. You do not need a master cowboy gunsmith. Any good smith should be able to do a simple teardown. save the shipping and buy more ammo GW

[Paladin Ralph]

Have not followed the post completely, but describing your situation. You do not need a master cowboy gunsmith. Any good smith should be able to do a simple teardown. save the shipping and buy more ammo GW

If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that I posted in the beginning, there are no cowboy gunsmiths here, only ones who fix AR's, AK's and semi auto. nugh said

[Paladin Ralph]

 

I think if you're going to try this, you need to remove the cartridge stops first. In fact, I'd remove ALL of the internals before trying this (talking about the dowel idea)

 

I would posit a guess that once the cartridge stops are pulled the shells may just fall out, or you will be able to work them out with a little wiggling/twisting action of the shell or using a pick.

 

You won't blow a hole in the mag tube, you will split it. It will may also damage the barrel and maybe even the receiver. depending on how pieces exit the firearm. THIS is why I say disassemble it as fully as possible.

 

Also, I would recommend a paper overshot card on your shells until you're sure you've got the crimp issues worked out 100%

Ok I spread the fingers and one shell fell into the loading area, didnt need pics, but the other 2 are still in there with the follower and a small amount of loose shot.

 

Where can I get a skematic of the gun so maybe I can get it apart?

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Thanks HD,

 

I was using paper over the shot with the Load All and was hoping the MEC would eliminate that step. I think I have the MEC dialed in now so it closes very good, with just a small pin hole. I was trying to use the ones up that were holding, so I guess I will pull the 8 boxes I have left, at least I can save the shot, shoot them as blanks and reload..

 

Im gonna try using some metal dental type picks to see if I can pull the loose shells out first. I really dont like takeing any gun appart because I can never get them back together again and end up having to send them off to a smith. I took my Vaquero apart to clean the inards and even with watching the YouTube about 30 times, it didnt go back the way it showed so I had to ship them off, same with my BSS and my 66. My long guns are so well $traveled I got a hvy duty plastic case and box to ship them round trip in.

 

Gonna try the pics now,

thanks

ralph

 

If these are cowboy loads, you should be single-loading them anyway right? Well, shoot them that way! Just don't put them into the mag tube! That way you don't have to disassemble 8 boxes of loads. Or, use them for practice! (cause we ALL need practice!)

 

The 97 is perhaps the most complicated firearm we have in CAS. That being said, it's much more complicated than a Single Action Army, Winchester 66 or 73, or most any double or cap gun. There's just more going on in the action and more fidly pieces. you might try PUSHING with a piece of dowel. not TAPPING or HAMMERING, just PUSHING gently down the mag tube to see if you can get the two shells and follower to move into the space you just made with the one shell that came out. It's very possible that you can now work the other shells loose as well as the follower.

 

How about the folks you shoot with, surely you have a cowboy or two in your club that could be a resource for helping out here, no?

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Ok I spread the fingers and one shell fell into the loading area, didnt need pics, but the other 2 are still in there with the follower and a small amount of loose shot.

 

Where can I get a skematic of the gun so maybe I can get it apart?

 

Based on your comments on having to ship disassembled guns to smiths (I applaud your willingness to step back and get the help you needed too!), I'd recommend finding a local resource from your club - at the very least - to help you disassemble the shotgun, should it come to that. Reassembly is very particular and a slave pin is highly recommended for the trigger. If you think the NMV is bad, you ain't seen nothin' yet! the 97 is not for the faint of heart or amateur at hand when it comes to the innards.

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Been out of pocket but Cap knows more than I ever will about these.

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm

 

That is for the takedown, but the main difference is:

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/97Solid.html

 

And the instructions for taking down the solid frame is in the middle of the other page quoted:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97down.html

 

With further data:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97dis.html

 

A pard ordered on the "cowboy IAC imports that has the screws in the side of the frame to hold in the cartridge stops. As usual, I always do a partial dissassemby to clean up and on his gun, the mag tube was stuck pretty solid as you mention. I didn't want to damage his gun. Since he bought it from Davidson's with their great warranty, we just sent it back and got another. But you are not in that position right now.

 

Some video's (Unfortunately too many are takedown only)

 

 

The last poart of this may be especially helpful.

[Paladin Ralph]

 

If these are cowboy loads, you should be single-loading them anyway right? Well, shoot them that way! Just don't put them into the mag tube! That way you don't have to disassemble 8 boxes of loads. Or, use them for practice! (cause we ALL need practice!)

 

The 97 is perhaps the most complicated firearm we have in CAS. That being said, it's much more complicated than a Single Action Army, Winchester 66 or 73, or most any double or cap gun. There's just more going on in the action and more fidly pieces. you might try PUSHING with a piece of dowel. not TAPPING or HAMMERING, just PUSHING gently down the mag tube to see if you can get the two shells and follower to move into the space you just made with the one shell that came out. It's very possible that you can now work the other shells loose as well as the follower.

 

How about the folks you shoot with, surely you have a cowboy or two in your club that could be a resource for helping out here, no?

Yes and no to your first comment. We shoot WB every month that has a 5th Sat, hence my loading the tube in practice for that match and SASS allows a 97 to be loaded with 2 shells. I may shoot those 8 boxes in one of my SxS's since they arent as fussy.

 

Our group is small and the few that shoot 97's shoot take downs. I did take it to the match and ask a knowledgeable pard for help. We tried my squib rod from the front, but it wont move.

[Paladin Ralph]

 

Based on your comments on having to ship disassembled guns to smiths (I applaud your willingness to step back and get the help you needed too!), I'd recommend finding a local resource from your club - at the very least - to help you disassemble the shotgun, should it come to that. Reassembly is very particular and a slave pin is highly recommended for the trigger. If you think the NMV is bad, you ain't seen nothin' yet! the 97 is not for the faint of heart or amateur at hand when it comes to the innards.

 

The closest cowboy smiths to me are 200 miles north and south. I was hoping to fix this myself to save the money, but its looking like Im gonna have to spend it.

 

I can fix anything in a home, having been in the remodeling business for 10 years and managing the construction of 1,000 acre golf and yatching communities and 40 story condos for the last 30 years. I reciently rebuilt a home that was gutted by fire, did most of the work myself with a few helpers to do the heavy lifting and still am a cost consult for developers and GC's of multi million dollar projects, but fixing a gun is as hard as being a watch maker, outa my comfort level.

[Paladin Ralph]

Been out of pocket but Cap knows more than I ever will about these.

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm

 

That is for the takedown, but the main difference is:

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/97Solid.html

 

And the instructions for taking down the solid frame is in the middle of the other page quoted:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97down.html

 

With further data:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Model97dis.html

 

A pard ordered on the "cowboy IAC imports that has the screws in the side of the frame to hold in the cartridge stops. As usual, I always do a partial dissassemby to clean up and on his gun, the mag tube was stuck pretty solid as you mention. I didn't want to damage his gun. Since he bought it from Davidson's with their great warranty, we just sent it back and got another. But you are not in that position right now.

 

Some video's (Unfortunately too many are takedown only)

 

 

The last poart of this may be especially helpful.

Thanks for jumping in here, I have been to some of your sites, lots of valuable info for some one who knows what they are doing. I was thinking of bringing the gun to you, but from your web site cant figure where you are in GA. Macon's not too far from Tallahassee, but north GA is a bit of a trip. Im about ready to send it out because what seems so simple is difficult for my limited gunsmithing abilities. You might want to review my discussion with Hurricane Deck above.

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

I just don't see, given you say your shotgun is an I.A.C., M-97w-20 with an 09 serial number, where you cannot turn the magazine tube to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

If you have removed the mag tube locating screw from the right side of the frame, there is nothing left to do except break the torque of the threads.

 

Modify a screwdriver to fit into the mag tube end cap screw holes (one large hole, one small hole, across from each other).

 

Stick the modified screwdriver into the large hole, through the top of the mag tube, so the pointed (now modified) end of the screwdriver will fit into the small hole.

 

Turn the screwdriver counter-clockwise to break the torque that is holding the threads tight.

 

Once the torque is broken, turn the mag tube counter-clockwise with your fingers to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

There is no need to disassemble the gun other than to remove the parts I mentioned.

 

Once you have the slide, forearm and mag tube off the shotgun, take those items to your local gunsmith to remove the stuck follower and the remaining live rounds.

 

"Coyote Cap"

[Chance Ramsay]

Dave Smith @ Gun Craft Ruskin Fl.

[Paladin Ralph]

I just don't see, given you say your shotgun is an I.A.C., M-97w-20 with an 09 serial number, where you cannot turn the magazine tube to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

If you have removed the mag tube locating screw from the right side of the frame, there is nothing left to do except break the torque of the threads.

 

Modify a screwdriver to fit into the mag tube end cap screw holes (one large hole, one small hole, across from each other).

 

Stick the modified screwdriver into the large hole, through the top of the mag tube, so the pointed (now modified) end of the screwdriver will fit into the small hole.

 

Turn the screwdriver counter-clockwise to break the torque that is holding the threads tight.

 

Once the torque is broken, turn the mag tube counter-clockwise with your fingers to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

There is no need to disassemble the gun other than to remove the parts I mentioned.

 

Once you have the slide, forearm and mag tube off the shotgun, take those items to your local gunsmith to remove the stuck follower and the remaining live rounds.

 

"Coyote Cap"

I understand what you are telling me to do with the screwdriver, but I will try the inside wrench when it gets here next week. If that doesnt work then I will ship it off to get fixed rater than drilling my gun. The finish on this gun is pristine and I dont want to deface it. One I get the tube off, if I cant get the shells out, then I will do my thing with a piece of heavy sewer pipe, if the tube spllits then it will have to be replaced.

 

The gunsmiths here in my town cannot fix cowboy guns, they break more than they repair making it necessary to send them out for repairs. The closest smiths to me are Marauder 200 miles north and Roughneck Rod, yes he is still in business, I just talked to him, 200 miles south.

 

Are parts available? Or do I have to buy a spare gun for parts, like the originals?

 

The mag tube is torqued in REAL TIGHT.

 

I can rake the butt stock off, but dont know how to take the forestock off. Maybe Marauder's diagrams will help. Or when I unscrew the mag does that release the forestock and connecting rod in the reciever?

 

This thing is not going to beat me!

[Paladin Ralph]

Dave Smith @ Gun Craft Ruskin Fl.

He's just a little south of Roughneck Rod, across the bay from Tampa.

 

Aren't you the guy that Desperado Dale gets bullets from?

 

Thanks for your help.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

SIR

 

get a strap wrench , loop ot around the mag tube , to break it loose

 

hit it with a bit of Koril , before you get after it

 

Chickasaw Bill

[Paladin Ralph]

SIR

 

get a strap wrench , loop ot around the mag tube , to break it loose

 

hit it with a bit of Koril , before you get after it

 

Chickasaw Bill

Sounds like a good idea, I have one of those, but the strap is to thick to go between tube and the barrel. There is a problem with that type of wrench. If the pipe isnt thick enough, it will crush it and since the tube is not likely the same type of steel as the barrel and its thinner, I am afraid it would would do more harm than good. I did think of getting a 1" dowel and sanding it to fit for suipport, but the strap is the problem.

 

thank you for your idea

[Paladin Ralph]

I just don't see, given you say your shotgun is an I.A.C., M-97w-20 with an 09 serial number, where you cannot turn the magazine tube to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

If you have removed the mag tube locating screw from the right side of the frame, there is nothing left to do except break the torque of the threads.

 

Modify a screwdriver to fit into the mag tube end cap screw holes (one large hole, one small hole, across from each other).

 

Stick the modified screwdriver into the large hole, through the top of the mag tube, so the pointed (now modified) end of the screwdriver will fit into the small hole.

 

Turn the screwdriver counter-clockwise to break the torque that is holding the threads tight.

 

Once the torque is broken, turn the mag tube counter-clockwise with your fingers to remove it along with the slide and forearm.

 

There is no need to disassemble the gun other than to remove the parts I mentioned.

 

Once you have the slide, forearm and mag tube off the shotgun, take those items to your local gunsmith to remove the stuck follower and the remaining live rounds.

 

"Coyote Cap"

I may have to go this route. My 1" nipple extractor came today and its 1/32" too big.

[Paladin Ralph]

Another question, on the newer 97's for an action job is it normal to have to replace the seer?

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

To answer your question on the sear.

 

I changed the design of the bolt, so the "double cocker" invention would make the forward motion of the bolt, become frictionless and make all the new Cowboy Competition M-97's super-slick.

 

What I also had to do, (in view of the CB's being CNC machined), was to request the factory to lengthen the sears from the M-93/97 average of .850 / .890 to a much longer .950 / .999.

 

If you change the new sear, thinking it was too long, you will destroy the slick movement of the bolt over the "Double cocker" and you will end up dragging the hammer on the bottom of the bolt like all old Win. 97's and a lot of the clones.

 

The reason is because the tolerances are so much closer, because of the CNC machining that even a .002 / .003 change to the length of the sear face will have a disastrous effect on the slick and smooth operation of the Cowboy Comp 97.

 

More questions on the internal changes I made to the M-97w-20cb ? fire away with questions !

 

"Coyote Cap"

[Paladin Ralph]

To answer your question on the sear.

 

I changed the design of the bolt, so the "double cocker" invention would make the forward motion of the bolt, become frictionless and make all the new Cowboy Competition M-97's super-slick.

 

What I also had to do, (in view of the CB's being CNC machined), was to request the factory to lengthen the sears from the M-93/97 average of .850 / .890 to a much longer .950 / .999.

 

If you change the new sear, thinking it was too long, you will destroy the slick movement of the bolt over the "Double cocker" and you will end up dragging the hammer on the bottom of the bolt like all old Win. 97's and a lot of the clones.

 

The reason is because the tolerances are so much closer, because of the CNC machining that even a .002 / .003 change to the length of the sear face will have a disastrous effect on the slick and smooth operation of the Cowboy Comp 97.

 

More questions on the internal changes I made to the M-97w-20cb ? fire away with questions !

 

"Coyote Cap"

Thanks Cap, I enjoyed reading about your late Dad on your web site.

 

Going to try the screwdriver today. i also sent you an email via your web stie regarding other work.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Cap's idea about the screw driver is great.

 

Hopefully, they merely have varnish or some similar stuff that is holding the mag tube tight. I suppose that is the case to the one I saw.

 

Cap, I wonder, would it be a good idea to use a hair dryer and warm it up good first - to help break whatever may be holding it?

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

WITH AMMO , in the tube , I would not use any heat in this case

 

If you think there is some kind of varnish / sealer , I would suggest acetone or lighter fluid to break it down

 

Chickasaw

[Lead Reckoning]

.

[Lead Reckoning]

Well I see there in the tube. Ugh I don't know then .

[Lead Reckoning]

Well I see there in the tube. Ugh I don't know then .

[Paladin Ralph]

Paladin Ralph,

 

You have to remove the complete forearm, slide and magazine tube, before you can even try to disassemble the rest of an M-97.

 

However, from what you have posted , it sounds like you have missed an unloading step and your problem may be far simpler than you thought !

 

Question,

Are you attempting to push the live ammo from the front if the mag tube back into the frame?

 

If so, have you opened the action with the bolt all the way to the rear and the carrier fully down?

 

You have an. "09" model with shell stop cartridge release buttons on both sides of the frame. You need to be pushing both of those buttons, while pushing the follower back down in the tube.

 

If you don't push those buttons, the rims of the cartridges cannot back out of the mag tube.

 

You can do the same thing with the action closed by pushing those two buttons and the shells will fall out onto the floor.

 

(It takes two people to do this though).

 

You mentioned after you removed the end cap and spring, the follower will not come out of the rear of the mag tube. (Interesting)!

 

This tells me you have some shot stuck between the side of the follower and mag tube, and not between the cartridges (which would be a bad thing if there is some shot up against the primer)

 

A customer had a problem like this years ago with a Winchester 97 that he had leaned up against the side of his truck and then backed up and he forgot he left the gun leaning on the truck and he backed over it, bending the mag tube.

 

I used a 3/4" dowel rod down the mag tube and pointed the barrel towards the ground with the dowel rod touching the ground. I gently tapped the rear if the buttstock with a rubber hammer while he held the two buttons down and the mag tube was easily emptied !

 

When I got back to the shop, I used my mag tube dent remover tool to straighten the bent mag.

 

Anyway - I hope this info helps you ?

 

"Coyote Cap"

Well Cap I took the stock off, wraped the frame with 11-12 oz latigo leather in my vise and the screw driver didnt work. I bent 2 high quality Craftsman screw drivers that I have had for 40 years, back when those tools were really good. I have one more left, but will save it because I know it will bend too. What next? I for see a trip to Fed Ex ground.

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

Do not ship that shotgun with live ammo in the msg tube. There has to be somebody in your SASS club that knows more about M-97's,

 

I have to figure out how to post pictures of the water pipe turning tool. I could do with some suggestions, as I have never done that before.

 

The pipe tool had to be modified to allow the cam to lock in place when you turn the tool counter-clockwise.

 

"Cap"

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Cap, can you email the pictures to me and I'll post them.

[Paladin Ralph]

Do not ship that shotgun with live ammo in the msg tube. There has to be somebody in your SASS club that knows more about M-97's,

 

I have to figure out how to post pictures of the water pipe turning tool. I could do with some suggestions, as I have never done that before.

 

The pipe tool had to be modified to allow the cam to lock in place when you turn the tool counter-clockwise.

 

"Cap"

Ace hardware has them in 1/2" and 3/4" both of which are too small to engage the inside of the tube. The next size is 1" and only found it in upstate NY, after an extensive Google seaerch, bought it and when it got here, it's 1/32" too big. I will ask my pards again and if they cannot help me, I will go back to my sewer pipe idea. I know that will work and wont hurt me, but may tear up the gun, unless I can take the guts out per Marauder's pages. Best I can figure, Im 200 miles south of Marauder, if he can take them out.