In modern lever action rifles are there any difference between round and octagon barrels.

[Bugsbunnyshooter]

What's the big difference other than looks and weight between the round and octagon barrels.

I have Rossi's in both round and octagon I really loved the look of the octagon so I got it it's heavier so does that mean better for long range.

Were they easier to make way back?

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

I always felt the octagon rifles were a bit more accurate.

Best

CR

[Snakebite]

There are cases to be made for heavier and lighter barrels depending upon what the rifle is being used for. Heavy Bull barrels for some Bench ranch work, or a light sport barrel to carry around all day in the woods. Some might say that a lighter rifle swings faster and has less over travel.. then some might make the case for a heavier barrel to stabilize better................ bla, bla, bla, bla.... IMO, it just doesn't make much difference in THIS game. Get what looks the best to you.

 

Snaikebite

[Boon Doggle]

Octagon = More style points.

[The Wichita Southpaw]

I have a 73, 20" octagon rifle. Wife has 73, 19" round carbine. The main difference is the weight, I like hers better. Another big difference is the stock: the carbine's is flatter, without the pointy lower end of the rifle. Seems like most shooters stick that point right in their shoulder joint to bring it up high enough to aim. After a while it can make me sore. You won't be as tempted to chop it.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

What's the big difference other than looks and weight between the round and octagon barrels.

 

Were they easier to make way back?

 

You have stated the only real difference.

 

I have read that octagons were easier to make.

[Tom Bullweed]

I had a Uberti 1873 with the half-octagonal. It had the cool look and was light on the muzzle end.

[Johnny Dollar]

Interesting subject.... I've wondered if there were any real advantages over one or the other. Other than looks which is a personal thing I wonder if there are any studies on it. I don't think there is any differences at the distances we shoot but taking SASS out of the equation I wonder if there is. There must be some differences in barrel harmonics for one.

 

Personally I like the octagon better for looks.... I had a '73 with a 24" octagon barrel.... Love it.

When I started looking for a long range sharps type rifle, I kept looking for the octagon barrels. I came on a C. Sharps 45/70 for a price I couldn't pass up... The only thing was it had a round bull barrel. It's heavy but drives tacks. Much more accurate then I will ever be!

So I'm not sure other than style points that there is much difference.

[Cat Brules]

The 73 is fairly heavy for being a close range, quick, working rifle. Smaller caliber rifles make for heavier barrels, but this is a secondary, often irrelevant, issue.

 

For smaller shooters, especially petite, not-so-muscular women, the rifle's weight becomes a significant issue, when coupled with balance (often a function of barrel length) and "fit", or length of pull. So, rifle weight does make balance and "fit" critical.

 

The difference in weight between a round barrel and an octagon barrel is said to be "a few ounces;" I DON'T KNOW what the differences really are (round vs. octagon) for the various barrel lengths, say between 18" through 22".

 

If I was again selecting a 73 (or 66), I would buy a carbine style with an 18" ROUND barrel (in .357Mag for shooting .38 Special). Then, I would have the stock cut back for proper fit (length of pull), taking into consideration the addition of a buttplate or recoil pad.

 

But, that 18" round-barreled carbine can be difficult to locate......I'd buy the rifle from someone like Cody Conagher's "The Cowboy Shop" and have him deal with finding the rifle and doing the CAS competition modifications.

 

OKAY.....IN OUR GAME, what makes for better long range shooting? Your match rifle should be good out to 100 yards, and the shorter, 18" round barrel is just fine for at least 100 yards. But generally speaking I'd say 100 yards is it's competitive limitation. I'd also say that balance and fit become even more critical for consistent hits at long range.

[Captain Bill Burt]

We have three 1873s. Two 18 inch half octagon half round, and one 18.5 inch octagon. All three are chambered in .357 and have crescent butt-plates. I'm sure there's a difference in weight, but it's almost undetectable. I can feel the difference in balance though.

 

My 10 year old does equally well with either the full octagon or the half round half octagon so long as he has a properly fitted stock (Thanks again Tyrel Cody for the stock). If you're a very competitive shooter who goes to matches focusing on your overall finish I believe the half octagon half round is just a bit faster transitioning from target to target. For CAS I think there's not a dimes worth of difference with respect to accuracy.

 

I have no idea about long range accuracy differences because that's not something I've ever tried to do with an 1873.

[Bugsbunnyshooter]

I kind of assumed in the 1800's the heavy barrel was more accurate at distance. It seems correct me if I am wrong but machines in that time would make octagon barrels easier than round.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

 

Bugsbunnyshooter, on 16 Jan 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

I kind of assumed in the 1800's the heavy barrel was more accurate at distance. It seems correct me if I am wrong but machines in that time would make octagon barrels easier than round.

 

There is little difference between the effort required to manufacture a round vs octagon barrel. In fact it is probably easier to manufacture round stock as you don't have to worry with any slight twisting as it is drawn or hammered out.

 

The difference however in assembling and maintaining a firearm with a round VS octogon barrel is a lot more apparent. With an octagon barrel you have built in surfaces for gripping in a vice or with a wrench.

Drilling a hole, cutting a dove tail, and a whole host of other machining tasks is much much simplier when you have nice flat surfaces to work with.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

 

Were they easier to make way back?

 

Howdy

 

It depends on your definition of 'way back'.

 

Going back to flintlock days, when guns were often made 'lock, stock, and barrel' one at a time, barrels were almost always octagonal. That is because drills had not yet been developed that could drill a long enough, straight enough hole for the bore of a rifle. Instead, the gunsmith formed the barrel from a skelp of iron, yes iron, by heating it and wrapping it around a mandrel. He welded the skelp into a tube by heating and welding the seam in one long, straight line. Then, because most village blacksmiths did not have access to a lathe big enough to turn the tube round, it was filed by hand to an octagon shape. This was a long, and laborious process. Generally speaking, only the top five flats of the octagon, which would be visible once the gun was assembled, were filed smooth enough for a really nice finish, the other three flats were filed flat, but they did not receive the same attention as the visible flats. The smith then used a series of reamers to open up the bore to the desired diameter, then rifled it by hand with an apparatus that dragged a single point through the bore, scratching the rifling deeper with each pass, then repeating the process for each groove. A very labor intensive process.

 

By the time of the Civil War, the Springfield Armory perfected a method of roll forging round rifle barrels without drilling them. A red hot donut shaped blank was run through a series of rollers under compression. Each roller compressed the diameter of the blank, which also had the affect of lengthening the blank. Once the final dimensions were reached, reamers would smooth out the bore and relatively modern rifling equipment rifled the barrel. This is how the Springfield Armory managed to produce 1000 rifled muskets per day at the height of production.

 

I have not yet been able to determine exactly when the modern gun drill was developed. A gun drill carries lubrication through a hole the entire length of the drill, allowing deep, straight holes to be drilled in solid steel bars. I have seen photos of gun drilling equipment at Colt, drilling several barrels at once. The best I have determined is that gun drills were developed towards the end of the 19th Century. Certainly for a non-round, unusually shaped barrel such as the 1860 Henry, roll forging the barrel would not have worked. A gun drill seems to be the only practical way to make such a barrel. The development of gun drills would also have dovetailed nicely with the development of Smokeless powder, since welded barrels would probably not have stood up to the increased pressures of Smokeless Powder.

 

I can't lay my hands on my copy of my Winchester Handbook by George Madis right now, but I can remember him stating that by the time of Winchester Model 1873, round barrels were standard at Winchester. Indeed, I have four old Winchesters and one old Marlin, each of them made in the 19th Century, the oldest goes back to 1882. They each have round barrels. When I am looking at old rifles, I see far more with round barrels than octagon barrels. During the production life of the Model 1873 Winchester, you could order a round barrel, an octagon barrel, or a half octagon/half round barrel. All in almost any length you wanted. You could also order an extra heavy octagon barrel that would have been heavier than a standard octagon barrel of the same caliber.

 

Today's reproductions usually have octagon barrels, but frankly, my research has shown that octagon barrels were not standard at all. Instead, modern manufacturers are making octagon barrels to evoke a mythical nostalgia that did not exist.

 

 

I kind of assumed in the 1800's the heavy barrel was more accurate at distance. It seems correct me if I am wrong but machines in that time would make octagon barrels easier than round.

 

 

Not really. By the time Winchester was in full swing they could make a round barrel or an octagon barrel with equal ease.

 

 

The difference however in assembling and maintaining a firearm with a round VS octogon barrel is a lot more apparent. With an octagon barrel you have built in surfaces for gripping in a vice or with a wrench.

 

Colt never had any problems screwing round barrels into the frame of a Single Action Army. You don't need flats machined on the barrel, you just need a dedicated fixture.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

 

Howdy

 

It depends on your definition of 'way back'.

 

Going back to flintlock days, when guns were often made 'lock, stock, and barrel' one at a time, barrels were almost always octagonal. That is because drills had not yet been developed that could drill a long enough, straight enough hole for the bore of a rifle. Instead, the gunsmith formed the barrel from a skelp of iron, yes iron, by heating it and wrapping it around a mandrel. He welded the skelp into a tube by heating and welding the seam in one long, straight line. Then, because most village blacksmiths did not have access to a lathe big enough to turn the tube round, it was filed by hand to an octagon shape. This was a long, and laborious process. Generally speaking, only the top five flats of the octagon, which would be visible once the gun was assembled, were filed smooth enough for a really nice finish, the other three flats were filed flat, but they did not receive the same attention as the visible flats. The smith then used a series of reamers to open up the bore to the desired diameter, then rifled it by hand with an apparatus that dragged a single point through the bore, scratching the rifling deeper with each pass, then repeating the process for each groove. A very labor intensive process.

 

By the time of the Civil War, the Springfield Armory perfected a method of roll forging round rifle barrels without drilling them. A red hot donut shaped blank was run through a series of rollers under compression. Each roller compressed the diameter of the blank, which also had the affect of lengthening the blank. Once the final dimensions were reached, reamers would smooth out the bore and relatively modern rifling equipment rifled the barrel. This is how the Springfield Armory managed to produce 1000 rifled muskets per day at the height of production.

 

I have not yet been able to determine exactly when the modern gun drill was developed. A gun drill carries lubrication through a hole the entire length of the drill, allowing deep, straight holes to be drilled in solid steel bars. I have seen photos of gun drilling equipment at Colt, drilling several barrels at once. The best I have determined is that gun drills were developed towards the end of the 19th Century. Certainly for a non-round, unusually shaped barrel such as the 1860 Henry, roll forging the barrel would not have worked. A gun drill seems to be the only practical way to make such a barrel. The development of gun drills would also have dovetailed nicely with the development of Smokeless powder, since welded barrels would probably not have stood up to the increased pressures of Smokeless Powder.

 

I can't lay my hands on my copy of my Winchester Handbook by George Madis right now, but I can remember him stating that by the time of Winchester Model 1873, round barrels were standard at Winchester. Indeed, I have four old Winchesters and one old Marlin, each of them made in the 19th Century, the oldest goes back to 1882. They each have round barrels. When I am looking at old rifles, I see far more with round barrels than octagon barrels. During the production life of the Model 1873 Winchester, you could order a round barrel, an octagon barrel, or a half octagon/half round barrel. All in almost any length you wanted. You could also order an extra heavy octagon barrel that would have been heavier than a standard octagon barrel of the same caliber.

 

Today's reproductions usually have octagon barrels, but frankly, my research has shown that octagon barrels were not standard at all. Instead, modern manufacturers are making octagon barrels to evoke a mythical nostalgia that did not exist.

 

 

 

Not really. By the time Winchester was in full swing they could make a round barrel or an octagon barrel with equal ease.

 

 

Colt never had any problems screwing round barrels into the frame of a Single Action Army. You don't need flats machined on the barrel, you just need a dedicated fixture.

The most accurate explanation I have seen.

[Justin O Lawman,SASS#7672]

The round barrel was standard on the 73 Winchesters. The Octagon barrel cost extra. However more rifles were ordered with the Octagon barrel

[Dantankerous]

Driftwood,

 

Most excellent explanation. Thank you.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

None.

No.

No.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

One other note. I recall an article in Guns and Ammo magazine from back in the 80's. (I think...) The author did make the point that on the Winchester model 94, that a 24" octagon barrel was capable of much greater long range accuracy than a 20" round one in .30-30 caliber.

 

But he was very specific to this barrel, model and caliber combination.

 

Wish I could find the article...

[Bart Solo]

If memory serves by the 1880's round barreled rifles were cheaper to make and therefore more common, but I need to confirm that.

[Texas Lizard]

If memory serves by the 1880's round barreled rifles were cheaper to make and therefore more common, but I need to confirm that.

You could go threw all that paper work you have...I'm sure you could find the invoice of what you paid...

 

TL

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

For the CAS game it's all about time-on-target. One of the things that helps is some forward weight to help stabilize the sights and control recoil/muzzle rise. The octagons tend to be heavier out front compared to the rounds. But, because we are moving with these guns the 24" octagon can be cumbersome. So, the 20" octagons seem to the the preferred compromise for the CAS game.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

In the 21st Century, unless you are a long range shooter, the round barrel is fine for hunting and is

best for CAS. For long range BPCR and mile shoots, the octagon barrel is best.

 

Weight, barrel stiffness and, in pistol, bull barrels are it.

 

Remember, firearms are tools and general use is not the same is specialized use.

[J.D. Daily]

I had a Uberti 1873 with the half-octagonal. It had the cool look and was light on the muzzle end.

+1 I wanted one in 38/357 badly enough that I waited 2 1/2 years before I found one NIB on GB. Had no luck acquiring one through local dealers.

P.S. The felt recoil from a 125 grain bullet over recommended starting charge of TB is no more than a from a bolt action 22LR.

[backshootin beauford mcgee]

I like the looks of the octagon barrel best, that said the round barrels swing much faster for me. I really find a 66 or 73 with a 24 inch or longer octagon too heavy for fast use. If I am shooting long distance, I'm passing on a 66/73 and going to an 86 in a rifle round.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I really think it's a matter of aesthetics. I happen to like the looks of an octagon barrel, so that's what I have. It does not matter at all to me if you want to shoot one of those stupid looking round barrels

 

CR

[Buckshot Bowdrie]

To me I feel the rifle swings better with the heavier weight of the octagon barrel. But that's just me, I love the look too