Gun Violence

[Sammy Wadcutter, SASS # 49996]

I am both a NRA member, a SASS member and a CCL holder. I have to say I am completely disappointed in this sitting President’s newest action on gun control. The reason this has happened is due to the NRA not leading the way in a fight to curb gun violence in our nation. I have been to hundreds of gun shows and I am always very concerned when I see individuals whom I believe could not purchase a firearm that required a background check purchasing firearms. Gun shows give felons and individuals with a mental illness the opportunity to openly purchase a gun. Due to the NRAs opposition to any more gun control they have become the bad guys in the fight to curb gun violence. I know as well as you know no amount of gun control will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The NRA needs to be leading the fight to restrict, as much as possible, criminals and the mentally ill from buying firearms. The NRA has created the perception with the American public that the it will fight any measure that allows the criminal and mentally ill to purchase firearms in order to protect the rights of citizens to bear arms. It is not the law abiding gun owners who are committing gun violence but we are the ones who will be punished in the effort to curb this epidemic unless the American public realizes we are leading the fight to curb gun violence. The NRA, in every add, should be emphasizing stricter sentences for committing a crime using a firearm. How about pushing life in prison for anyone committing a felony with a firearm. How about pushing an effort to require the medical profession to submit any of their patients treated for a mental problem to the Federal data base.

 

You cannot win a fight if all you have is a defense. The only acceptable offence is to lead the fight against this increasing epidemic of gun violence in this country. If our current effort and position does not change we are going to lose the fight for our Second Amendment. The American public needs to understand my right to bear arms has nothing to do with gun violence in this nation. Gun violence is an act of an individual who will commit a violent act using a gun.

 

Tango Tom

[Tyrel Cody]

They've tried. Until current laws are enforced and all gun free zones are removed this type of violence will continue.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

As far as I remember the NRA has been advocating the enforcement of gun laws for quite a while, and the government has done very little about that over the years. Now they are trying to define a "gun seller" as if that will deter criminals and others who shouldn't have firearms. I remember a time when FFL dealers numbered in the hundreds of thousands and many licenses were not renewed for these "kitchen table" dealers because they didn't do enough business. Now there are about 140,000 nationwide and the government wants to hire more investigators to cover more FFL dealers.

 

I was in London, years ago the weekend Parliament passed the law taking away all the legal ownership of firearms. The British version of the NRA, in an effort to appear reasonable, agreed with all sorts of new laws, right down to the last one.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

and what part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRENGED " is so hard to sort out

 

this includes NFA '34 , GCA "68 , and all the rest

 

BTW , how can you tell by sight , if some one is legal ?

[Allegiance]

Sammy,

 

I obviously have a difference of opinion with you on how the NRA has conducted itself.....but everyone has a right to their own opinion. I would direct you to search the NRA's involvement in programs like "Crime Strike" and "Project EXILE." Here's an article that I posted, which also may help you see what we have been doing.

 

NRA's LaPierre: Politicians Won't Pass 'Common-Sense Laws' to Control Guns

 

 

 

 

 

National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said Tuesday that "common-sense gun laws" include strengthening the national background checks system and armed security guards in schools — steps that American politicians have refused to take.

 

"The NRA has fought for 20 years to put the records of those adjudicated mentally incompetent into the National Instant Check System," LaPierre said in a video on the organization's website. "And until the politicians demand that they are submitted, killers who are legally prohibited from owning firearms will walk into gun stores and pass every background check they take."

 

LaPierre's statement came after President Barack Obama announced executive actions that would regulate gun sales and curb illicit purchases, bypassing opposition from Congress.

 

The NRA executive slammed the news media for not reporting that "38 states submit less than 80 percent of their felony convictions to the system, leaving more than 7 million felony convictions in the dark.

 

"They don't tell you the truth," LaPierre said. "Instead, the only thing the average American has heard about background checks is the absolute fallacy that what we need is more.

 

"The system is only as good as the records within it — and the records only get submitted if the politicians demand it."

 

He noted that those perpetrating some of the nation's biggest mass shootings in recent years — including the Oregon community college attacks in October — "passed a background check.

 

"If you cast a net and the fish swim through the holes, you don't need a bigger net. You need tighter holes.

 

"But when it comes to a background check system that's missing the names of millions of prohibited people, the politicians don't want to fix it," LaPierre said.

 

He detailed the history of the national system, which stemmed from legislation signed by Democratic President Bill Clinton in the 1990s.

 

The system "wouldn’t exist at all if it weren't for the NRA," LaPierre said, calling that "the best-kept secret."

 

"We demanded an honest system that was supposed to make sure good people can purchase firearms as quickly as possible. A system that catches violent felons, the adjudicated mentally incompetent and dangerous — and every other prohibited person right at the point of sale, where they would be prosecuted for a federal felony."

 

But since so many names are missing from the system, "what has happened instead is one of the greatest failures in the history of American leadership," LaPierre said.

 

Nearly 80,000 people who were legally prohibited from buying a gun "committed a felony" by trying to do so — but only 44 were prosecuted.

 

"Does that sound like a good number to anybody?" he asked.

 

"So when you hear politicians who won't fix the broken system talk about expanding it, don't buy it. Demand what works. Put armed security in every school. Fix the broken mental-health system. Enforce the federal gun laws against every criminal thug on the street.

 

"Prosecute dangerous people when they show up to buy a gun," LaPierre added. "And for God's sake, put every prohibited person into the system."

 

 

Thank you for your support of the NRA and SASS at such a high level. We'll keep working hard to make sure we cover all the bases, but as I always say....Working together....We will prevail!

 

All my best,

 

Joe

 

Allegiance

[McCandless]

Sammy,

Howdy, and thank you for your thoughts on this.

You proposed: "How about pushing an effort to require the medical profession to submit any of their patients treated for a mental problem to the Federal data base."

 

We need to step lightly on that point. One of the most heavily prescribed class of drugs in America, and in many countries, are SSRIs, (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) which are for treatment of Depression or Anxiety Disorders. If we had to submit all these patients into a Federal Data Base, we would then render a major portion of the population incapable of defending themselves or others. We would have breached the Doctor-Patient confidentiality protections that are Federally Protected. And we would be in effect telling the populace not to seek treatment for depression, because we are then going to report you to Big Brother.

 

What is needed is more comprehensive and common-sense ways of dealing with those who need the most help. I worked at Hudson River State Hospital in Poughkeepsie NY at the beginning of the '70s. We had a huge population of patients who could not take care of themselves. They included the violent and the non-violent, those with major and minor Psychiatric Disorders, those who needed long-term treatment, and those who posed a threat to themselves or to others.

 

Such State Facilities were extremely expensive to staff and run. As such, trained personnel were often kept to a bare minimum because of budget constraints. This sometimes led to abuse of patients by overwhelmed, ill-trained, low paid, under-supervised staff members. (abuse was not the rule,but there were notable and sad exceptions.) Then came sweeping Federal legislation that closed down these big hospitals. The mentally ill were basically thrown out on the streets. The only exceptions were those patients who were committed by the court system for criminal acts, or those that were in for short-term evaluation. The upshot is, all these years later, is that we lack the ability to properly treat those who most desperately need it.

 

A whole other issue is: How do we stop guns from getting into the hands of those who are mentally ill, who deny the fact, and haven't sought treatment? There are many. Do we stigmatize and criminalize and take away the rights of those that have sought treatment?

 

I believe what you really want is for doctors to report those who have major psychiatric disorders, those with a diagnosis that could potentially be a harm to themselves or others, to some sort of Federal Database. The problem is that many of this class of patients don't seek treatment. Many of those who are in treatment have already been through the court system, and should already be in databases.

 

Then there is the problem of those younger "school shooters", those who have been neglected, abused, bullied, made to feel alone, unwanted, and angry; the children with fragile mental states whose parents that are too busy, absent, or just don't care. There are children who are raised in worlds of computerized and televised violence and bereft of parenting, socialization, or caring. Many will grow up to be some sort of functioning, valued, member of society. But then there will be the ones who "snap" and lash out, either in a planned or spontaneous fashion. How do we report them?

 

The current state of Mental Health Care in this and many countries is an underfunded, under-appreciated, misunderstood quagmire of conflicting policies and objectives. Most health insurance coverage barely acknowledges Mental Health, and rarely pays for it, because treatment often requires prolonged doctor-patient contact with and follow-up, which is expensive. Mental Illness cannot often be simply treated with a pill.

 

So first, the call for better Mental Health treatment in this country is long overdue and the reporting of "all those with a mental problem" is ill-advised. Second, we will never catch all those who need help before they cause harm. This is an unfortunate fact of life.

[Allegiance]

Well stated McCandless

[Dubious Don #56333]

All good points.

 

I hate to rely on statistics but....

Crime guns that were purchased at gun shows atr not common at all. According to ATF trace data the last figure I am aware was .01%. The vase majority of crime guns were stolen or legally possessed.

 

Did you know that EVERY NICS check goes into a searchable database?

 

Did you know that EVERY 4473 and bound book submitted to ATF from out of business dealers is entered into a searchable database? (Contrary to law but they do it anyway like the above)

 

Did you know that ATF targets high volume gun dealers and requires those they deem high risk (which is a lot) to submit a list, every month of the used guns they take in trade with make, model, serial number and date of transaction? This also goes into their "database".

 

Did you know that ATF asks (and they comply in the interest of "public safety") police agencies to submit every gun they seize by make, model and serial number? This also goes into their "records".

 

Did you know that ATF has the capability to search and trace a firearm, that law enforcement receives and asks for a trace, from manufacturer to end user? The only thing missing would be private transactions which are not subject (depending on the laws of a particular state) to a background check or registration.

 

With what we have now, a pretty good chunk of firearms and their owners are ALREADY in some sort of database easily searchable by law enforcement.

 

All this nonsense about common sense guncontrol/background checks/unlicensed dealers is nothing more than a smoke screen. What they want is to require ALL gun purchasers to submit to a background check. Some states already do this. With that simple law, nationwide, they do not need any registration scheme to know where the guns are. They already have it.

 

Why?

 

You know why sports fans.

 

I for one didn't believe our President one bit when he said no one is coming for our guns. Not yet they aren't.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I have been a Benefactor Member of the BRA since 1956. Throughout those decades, the NRA has worked diligently to add mental illness to the proscribed list. The NRA has been the only organization fighting for the things that Sammy has wanted.

 

Sadly, the gun control lobby has convinced mny people, apparently even NRA members like Sammy, that they have stood in the way of reforms. I guess that's because too many people believe the drivel put out by the media.

 

We ALL must back check the "facts" from the left.

[Blastmaster]

NRA may not have been there, but these two ladies hit a home run and perhaps was a better counter to Obama's agenda.

 

Taya Kyle did an excellent job of defending gun rights and putting Obama on the spot

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/opinions/taya-kyle-gun-control/

 

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As well as Kmberly Corban presentation to Obama

 

 

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Reminds me of Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp, the lady from Luby's Cafe testimony to the Cogress

 

 

 

 

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Perhaps Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp testimony should be reviewed by all.