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Gold Canyon Kid #43974

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OK, bought a gun today. Ended up getting the S&W 15 Sport II. This is the latest in the low cost S&W AR with a couple small added features over the Sport I. Store would not budge on marked price, said that is not their policy, so I went another way and got them to throw in 2 extra mags and a brick of Federal 22 Stingers. I am now trying to decide what kind of optics I can add again with biggest bang for the buck. Iron sights at anything over about 40 yards are pretty worthless to me. I want something that has a small bit of power and can get best accuracy the gun can deliver out to say 100 yards. Looking at something like a lower cost 2.5-zoom up by 40 mm standard scope. Should be able to get an acceptable one for about $150 on sale plus mounts. May look at easy detachable mounts. Use those on my Ruger 10-22 take down and love it.

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OK, bought a gun today. Ended up getting the S&W 15 Sport II. This is the latest in the low cost S&W AR with a couple small added features over the Sport I. Store would not budge on marked price, said that is not their policy, so I went another way and got them to throw in 2 extra mags and a brick of Federal 22 Stingers. I am now trying to decide what kind of optics I can add again with biggest bang for the buck. Iron sights at anything over about 40 yards are pretty worthless to me. I want something that has a small bit of power and can get best accuracy the gun can deliver out to say 100 yards. Looking at something like a lower cost 2.5-zoom up by 40 mm standard scope. Should be able to get an acceptable one for about $150 on sale plus mounts. May look at easy detachable mounts. Use those on my Ruger 10-22 take down and love it.

If you're not going to use iron sights, keep it simple. Use a solid scope base. Vortex Optics 1-4 or 1-6 in one of their bases. I'll send you a link shortly.

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Every winter I like to build or rebuild something. One year it was an old Winchester 22 rifle, another year it was a Stevens double barrel. Nothing too difficult. A couple of winters ago I decided to build an AR. As mentioned about Midway has some really good videos on building ARs, so does Brownells. I bought a stripped DPMS lower receiver from my FFL and then assembled all the parts, I bought the needed tools that I didn't borrow from a friend and one New Years weekend I build the rifle. I say weekend, but really it was an evening, I just had to wait until the next day to test it. I installed a Leupold I had in my workshop and took it to the range. It shoots better than I do at 100 yards. I know a lot more about ARs than I thought I ever would. One thing to keep in mind is the stripped lower receiver is deemed the firearm and has to go through an FFL.

 

Sadly the rifle now rests in my safe. I am just too busy shooting cowboy guns.

 

My next goal is to score a piston upper and a good red dot.

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If you're not going to use iron sights, keep it simple. Use a solid scope base. Vortex Optics 1-4 or 1-6 in one of their bases. I'll send you a link shortly.

Got the links, had already been looking at them on the web.

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A couple of years back I bought a dams hear 24 in heavy barel. It is heavy but shoots sub MBA at 200 yards with cheap American Eagle 55 grainers. Does not seem to matter if boat tailed or flatbase. I would recommend if you plan on using iron sights go with an at upper even if is a flattop for the longer sight radius?

As far as brands go think AHS might be like fly rods over $100 some may be better than others but really hard to find a bad one

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After serving for 28 years, I had no use for an AR. I did however buy a Ruger Ranch Rifle 223 for around the farm.

 

I now hunt coyotes in a predators club and it turns out that the 223 is just about right for that. I bought two, then built two target models with the heavy barrels. You can build one for less than $500, then add a better trigger, optics, etc.

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"....I really like my STAG, ......" well hang onto it , the guilty plea and agreement to sell the company may mean you have a desirable lower , but only time will tell ,

 

nice thing about the AR platform is you can always switch out for the newest and greatest gizmo or upgrade to better trigger etc without having to start over from scratch , a few simple tools and a little patience - anybody can do it ,

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I am now trying to decide what kind of optics I can add again with biggest bang for the buck. Iron sights at anything over about 40 yards are pretty worthless to me. I want something that has a small bit of power and can get best accuracy the gun can deliver out to say 100 yards. Looking at something like a lower cost 2.5-zoom up by 40 mm standard scope. Should be able to get an acceptable one for about $150 on sale plus mounts. May look at easy detachable mounts. Use those on my Ruger 10-22 take down and love it.

 

I have the Vortex Viper PST 1-4X24 30mm tube with the TMCQ reticle, with QD mount. Good optic allows for fast up close shots and enough zoom to shoot at distance.

 

Also have a Triqicon TR25 pretty much the the same as Viper. Does have better low light capability.

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After serving for 28 years, I had no use for an AR. I did however buy a Ruger Ranch Rifle 223 for around the farm.

 

I now hunt coyotes in a predators club and it turns out that the 223 is just about right for that. I bought two, then built two target models with the heavy barrels. You can build one for less than $500, then add a better trigger, optics, etc.

I purchased a mini 30 Ruger about 15 years ago. It had a 22 cal scope on it but price was terrific I thought at the time. A non shooting neighbor was selling off what was left of his father's guns. I paid $150 and he was thrilled getting rid of it. After removing the scope it shot better but basically with about 10 different kinds of ammo it still shot like crap, barely keeping rounds on a dinner plate at 50 yards with the best ammo. At the time I had several sub inch guns at 100 yards so I do not believe it was the shooter, all from a bench. I gave the mini 30 to my oldest son for his safe and put the scope on an old 22.

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I purchased a mini 30 Ruger about 15 years ago. It had a 22 cal scope on it but price was terrific I thought at the time. A non shooting neighbor was selling off what was left of his father's guns. I paid $150 and he was thrilled getting rid of it. After removing the scope it shot better but basically with about 10 different kinds of ammo it still shot like crap, barely keeping rounds on a dinner plate at 50 yards with the best ammo. At the time I had several sub inch guns at 100 yards so I do not believe it was the shooter, all from a bench. I gave the mini 30 to my oldest son for his safe and put the scope on an old 22.

I've never seen a factory Mini of any caliber shoot well. If they did 6" at 100 yards, it was amazing! Not saying they aren't some out there that will do better but they are scarce.

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I was at Bass Pro today looking for a new Concealed Carry gun. While I was there the AR's were flying off the shelf. The hour I was there I saw at least 8 AR's being sold.

 

S. Floyd

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I've never seen a factory Mini of any caliber shoot well. If they did 6" at 100 yards, it was amazing! Not saying they aren't some out there that will do better but they are scarce.

 

I've got a couple of Mini's that shoot M.O.A. Old pencil barrel mini's are from the past. Since leaving the Army in "69 I had no need for a semi-auto except for 22lr. When it seemed like potus would be elected I went shopping for an AR. but could not find any but a Mini, so I got one. With a bit of tweeking it was/is a M.O.A. rifle. Next year got another, same results. The dramatic examples are not the norm for Mini's made in the last 7 or 8 years. I see many AR's out at the range that I have no problem out shooting. The only reason I have the Mini's is because at the time I could not lay hands on a AR. But I kept them because they work!

Molasses Mike

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Another vote for the Vortex 1-4x24 Viper PST in a solid mount for an excellent bang for your buck. Good glass really shines in less than optimal conditions. Look at SWFA.com and their own brand of SS HD sccopes for that step up in glass for a bit more money.

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Thirty years ago I surrendered a Mini14 (aka Ruger Ranch Rifle) as part of a divorce. It was my choice. I didn't want my ex to be armed with any firearm that could be used to do me harm. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the thing. I figured she couldn't do it either. 😁

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A lot of thought until its buying time.

I went to H&K web, to me, I ask you, what in the world the difference between, DD, Ruger, Armalite, makes the H&K worth $3200.

Some of the top brands are $2200-$2500 list.

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The Ruger Mini 14's were never meant to be target rifle. I can consistently hit within 1/2 inch at 200 yards for the first four rounds, then it will start floating. We shoot clay pigeons to check our sights.

 

They used to sell barrel stiffeners for the mini to make them more reliable, but I think that has passed.

 

The Ranch rifle was meant for plinking around the farm, not a precision rifle.

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Interesting thread. Since the Kid has chosen wisely, I suppose the following is moot but I couldn't help it.

 

LIke most things you see on the WWW, sometimes things should be taken with a grain of salt (or two or three). A You Tube video and a Brownells will get you into just as much trouble as a Dremel tool.

 

5.56 NATO versus .223. Claptrap. Much ado about almost nothing. (almost) Just like reloading, stay in the middle with reasonable things and you're ok. Operate at the extreme, such as a short throat/long bullet when it's 115 (here in AZ that's common) and the result is a blown primer. Not a blown-up gun, blown primer. That's my experience with 5.56 in a 223 chamber. 99.9% of the time that combination worked just fine.

 

Barrel twist. Seen different combinations of 11" through 20" barrels in twists from 1/14 to 1/7. The 1/12 guns shot the 62/69 stuff ok with a difference of a minute or less. (yeah, I mean an inch larger group at 100 yards) When you toss in barrel length... things got a little weird. Generally, shorter barrels using the wrong bullet/twist combination did poorer but it weren't 100% if you get my drift.

 

Operate an AR system with a gas port that is not sized correctly or a gas tube that is not the correct length (they do differ from the 9", 11" 16" 20" etc lengths) and you will have problems. Put an M4 barrel on an old style receiver and the feed ramps won't match up. Isn't going to feed right. Fail to align the gas tube correctly (there is a gauge for this) or properly torque the barrel nut and you will also have problems.

 

Like any weapon system, parts need to be matched and mated. For the most part, providing you buy properly spec'd parts things will go together ok and drop right in. If not...

 

I can think of several rifles that use the gas inpingement system. The AR is unique in that the gas is directed right into the reciever and into the bolt group. For the most part, this area is self cleaning. There are tools which are a good investment for cleaning carbon out of the bolt carrier but this in unnecessary after every shooting session. Maybe after many thousands of rounds. Interestingly enough, during a time in my career when I spent my day on a range, when the guns started to run sluggish on full auto we'd have the students pull the bolt carrier out then that would get a spray of RemOil. Presto, back up and running!

 

If you use cheap-charley ammo that is steel cased/lacquered it will eventually build up a gummy mess in the chamber. Baked on. Hard to clean. Just say no.

 

If you use the wrong extractor spring, you will eventually experience failures to eject.

 

If you use crap magazines, same thing. I love my Magpul mags, but I've never had any of my GI al-U-min-ium mags split up the back when dropped and vomit every last round on the ground. Other than that, they are really good. (oh BTW, dented/mashed/old-crap-spring mags don't work worth sour owl dung either)

 

Piston guns....totally underwhelmed. I suppose POF made a bundle selling the things. Good for them. Solution to a non-exeistant problem. (Or, a solution looking for a problem) Ruger does have this right. I like that gun. Probably gonna buy one but it does make the gun heavier.

 

And yeah, I feel the same way about float tubes, donkey handles, lights, extended charging handles, wing-bone bolt releases, widgets and tacti-kool crap as I do piston thingies. While some can be useful, hanging a bunch of that crap on your gun is generally unnecessary. Makes it heavy, too.

 

If you paid more than a grand for your AR you probably paid too much. Of course with the market and all, who knows what "too much" is gonna be down the road? A basic carbine by DPMS, Rock River, Bushie, S&W or Ruger is less than that right about now.

 

Sights. The A2 sights are just fine. Even A1's. (less wheelie-things to get knocked around) The Magpul flip-ups are pretty good, ain't managed to break any...yet. (As my good friend Floyd says, ol'Dubious is hard on his carry guns) For red dots I'm partial to Meprolight, Aimpoint Comp2 and Trijicon in that order. Looked at the Vortex and might just give a set with their flip out magnifier a try. I wouldn't necessarily want anything more than a 3-4 power on a carbine but it sure is nice when you want to make a shot that you have 10 or more available. (accuracy ain't necessarily related to barrel length)

 

308. Hmmm, I am aware there are people with 308 AR's that work. I ain't one of them. Just like shortie 1911's, asking a design to do something it wasn't designed for in the first place....don't always work. (which is why I carry a full size 1911 and not one of them stupid officer-size models) Needless to say, I am continuing to work on my little problem so.....I wouldn't reccomend one just yet.

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Interesting thread. Since the Kid has chosen wisely, I suppose the following is moot but I couldn't help it.

 

LIke most things you see on the WWW, sometimes things should be taken with a grain of salt (or two or three). A You Tube video and a Brownells will get you into just as much trouble as a Dremel tool.

 

5.56 NATO versus .223. Claptrap. Much ado about almost nothing. (almost) Just like reloading, stay in the middle with reasonable things and you're ok. Operate at the extreme, such as a short throat/long bullet when it's 115 (here in AZ that's common) and the result is a blown primer. Not a blown-up gun, blown primer. That's my experience with 5.56 in a 223 chamber. 99.9% of the time that combination worked just fine.

 

Barrel twist. Seen different combinations of 11" through 20" barrels in twists from 1/14 to 1/7. The 1/12 guns shot the 62/69 stuff ok with a difference of a minute or less. (yeah, I mean an inch larger group at 100 yards) When you toss in barrel length... things got a little weird. Generally, shorter barrels using the wrong bullet/twist combination did poorer but it weren't 100% if you get my drift.

 

Operate an AR system with a gas port that is not sized correctly or a gas tube that is not the correct length (they do differ from the 9", 11" 16" 20" etc lengths) and you will have problems. Put an M4 barrel on an old style receiver and the feed ramps won't match up. Isn't going to feed right. Fail to align the gas tube correctly (there is a gauge for this) or properly torque the barrel nut and you will also have problems.

 

Like any weapon system, parts need to be matched and mated. For the most part, providing you buy properly spec'd parts things will go together ok and drop right in. If not...

 

I can think of several rifles that use the gas inpingement system. The AR is unique in that the gas is directed right into the reciever and into the bolt group. For the most part, this area is self cleaning. There are tools which are a good investment for cleaning carbon out of the bolt carrier but this in unnecessary after every shooting session. Maybe after many thousands of rounds. Interestingly enough, during a time in my career when I spent my day on a range, when the guns started to run sluggish on full auto we'd have the students pull the bolt carrier out then that would get a spray of RemOil. Presto, back up and running!

 

If you use cheap-charley ammo that is steel cased/lacquered it will eventually build up a gummy mess in the chamber. Baked on. Hard to clean. Just say no.

 

If you use the wrong extractor spring, you will eventually experience failures to eject.

 

If you use crap magazines, same thing. I love my Magpul mags, but I've never had any of my GI al-U-min-ium mags split up the back when dropped and vomit every last round on the ground. Other than that, they are really good. (oh BTW, dented/mashed/old-crap-spring mags don't work worth sour owl dung either)

 

Piston guns....totally underwhelmed. I suppose POF made a bundle selling the things. Good for them. Solution to a non-exeistant problem. (Or, a solution looking for a problem) Ruger does have this right. I like that gun. Probably gonna buy one but it does make the gun heavier.

 

And yeah, I feel the same way about float tubes, donkey handles, lights, extended charging handles, wing-bone bolt releases, widgets and tacti-kool crap as I do piston thingies. While some can be useful, hanging a bunch of that crap on your gun is generally unnecessary. Makes it heavy, too.

 

If you paid more than a grand for your AR you probably paid too much. Of course with the market and all, who knows what "too much" is gonna be down the road? A basic carbine by DPMS, Rock River, Bushie, S&W or Ruger is less than that right about now.

 

Sights. The A2 sights are just fine. Even A1's. (less wheelie-things to get knocked around) The Magpul flip-ups are pretty good, ain't managed to break any...yet. (As my good friend Floyd says, ol'Dubious is hard on his carry guns) For red dots I'm partial to Meprolight, Aimpoint Comp2 and Trijicon in that order. Looked at the Vortex and might just give a set with their flip out magnifier a try. I wouldn't necessarily want anything more than a 3-4 power on a carbine but it sure is nice when you want to make a shot that you have 10 or more available. (accuracy ain't necessarily related to barrel length)

 

308. Hmmm, I am aware there are people with 308 AR's that work. I ain't one of them. Just like shortie 1911's, asking a design to do something it wasn't designed for in the first place....don't always work. (which is why I carry a full size 1911 and not one of them stupid officer-size models) Needless to say, I am continuing to work on my little problem so.....I wouldn't reccomend one just yet.

Don, thanks for the great advice that only working on guns for a living can provide. I hope you and your wife had a great Christmas and I am sure your upcoming retirement from Sheriff Joe's outfit will provide a very happy New Year.

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You can find name brand MSRs for under $500. DI guns are cheaper than piston. Consider chrome or other coatings on bolt and chamber for easier cleaning. Some friends that know more about these than I do suggest an AK. I would prefer an M1 carbine over a black rifle for a variety of reasons and might also work for you.

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You can find name brand MSRs for under $500. DI guns are cheaper than piston. Consider chrome or other coatings on bolt and chamber for easier cleaning. Some friends that know more about these than I do suggest an AK. I would prefer an M1 carbine over a black rifle for a variety of reasons and might also work for you.

Just curious why the M1 over the AR? I do not have the later but I do have the former. The M1 is light neat little thing. My personal favourite little light gun is a 10mm ASR survival rifle at under 6lbs makes toting it real easy.

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They're easy to build if you want something cheap and specific otherwise dpmsor bushmaster will be worth the money. I'm looking at the Ruger SR-556 take down because of it's portability and piston tech instead of gas impingement like most ars.

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