Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 J.W., My guess is that because you were less than a year out of date, the office assummed that you wanted continuity in your membership to maintain your SASS number and Alias. Give them a call and talk to them. They are good folks and will do what they can. Dogmeat Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 While reading down thru this thread , I got to thinking that I should re-up my wife's membership. She didn't really participate in the shooting , but enjoyed the camaraderie. Her's has been expired for 10 or 12 years , be tough to catch it up. Just kidding , I think I will re-up her annual membership , I have been a Life member for over 15 years , member for over 20. Do what little I can to help. Glad to hear that Misty has a steady hand on the reins. Keep 'em smokin' , Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 And in the early days, life memberships were much less. But all of that coulda, shoulda, woulda, is moot at this point. We are where we are and we need to look at what is needed today. While an increae in Life Memberships will help in the short term, SASS will benefit most from increasing the annual membership numbers. While I wish the situation were different, I am confident that Misty is the right person to handle the situation we are in and run the show. During my career I was involved in a lot of contract negotiations and program management meetings. After a while you learned pretty quick who you could trust to provide useful, truthful, information and who was full of bovine excrement. Misty is definitely the former. She backed up her remarks with knowledge, was quick to admit her error when she flipped the membership numbers (she was trying to quote from memory after a long week), and anxious to hear new ideas from members. That is exactly what is needed as we move forward. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabby the frog Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 i do not know anything about running a newspaper but some things i could recommend run pieces about the poeple who were instrumental in startting our sport even if the have passed, see if we can get the great gunsmiths to write articles for us,and have our members write stories about starting out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I would be curious about a sort of breakdown, say percentage or numbers if you wish as to what country's are gaining and loosing members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col James MacLeod Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah, that is the part that I had a problem with. Just so the timeline is clear: My member since date is 12/09/2013. Not long after that my wife became ill and I was unable to shoot. My membership expired on 12/10/2014. I let my membership lapse because I was unable to participate and in fact never had. I went to my first match on 11/21/2015. I renewed my SASS membership now that I was able to become active in the sport. SASS thanked me for bringing my membership current and said that my membership expires today on 12/10/2015. SASS also billed me and said that I needed to renew my membership since it was fixing to expire. My current card says that I have been a member since 12/09/2013 and that it expires on 12/10/2015. That is what I meant by receiving continuity on an expired membership card. I'm glad that my membership had not lapsed for longer. I did not realize that you were required to pay back dues to be a member. I received my renewal notice a couple of weeks ago (postmarked Late November....can't read the exact day). My membership expires Jan 20, 2016. I received a new card in the envelope, but it states it expires on Jan 20, 2016. I wondered about that and now that I read the above post, I am wondering if I will get a new card, when my membership is renewed??? I would not be happy if I have to use a card that says it is expired. When I got into this sport last January, it was not because of anything SASS did. I belong to the Rio Salado Sportsman's Club and saw the monthly shoot listed on the weekly news letter. Decided to see what it was and immediately liked what I saw when I went to one of the shoots as a spectator. I decided to get into it, but at no time was there any obvious need to join SASS as you do not need to be a member to shoot at the club level (although I am not sure how you would get an alias if you did not). Anyway, it was only when I started researching the sport that I discovered the SASS Forum (Google Searches). I joined SASS only because I believe that if you are going to participate in the sport, you should support the organization behind it. Other than the Alias, I am not sure there is any concrete reason that I would join SASS at this point. I will however continue to pay my membership dues and support the organization just because that is the right thing to do. Not sure this attitude is shared by everyone. Obviously for the long term SASS needs to gain more annual members paying dues, or cut back the expenses so the budget balances against income. I think one way to do the former, would be to increase their exposure to people not currently in the sport. How about Having info booths at local gun shows?? Demonstration shoots at local club events (just partial stages that the public could try)?? At our clubs recent swap meet, the Fast Draw guys had a booth set up where the public could try out the sport. It was very popular with a constant stream of newbies giving it a try. Adverts/pamphlets on notice boards at local clubs. I shoot a lot of Sporting Clays and would have jumped on CAS earlier if I had seen a poster on the shotgun field notice board. ???? must be some other ideas that would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I joined SASS only because I believe that if you are going to participate in the sport, you should support the organization behind it. Other than the Alias, I am not sure there is any concrete reason that I would join SASS at this point. I will however continue to pay my membership dues and support the organization just because that is the right thing to do. Not sure this attitude is shared by everyone. You are a decent man, Colonel. However, since you are a SASS member and live at the eastern edge of the Phoenix metro area, why not use your SASS membership and shoot Winter Range? It's a wonderful event you would certainly enjoy. New shooters are welcome and you would see some top competitors put on good performances. There are cowboy sporting clays side matches where you might be very competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 I received my renewal notice a couple of weeks ago (postmarked Late November....can't read the exact day). My membership expires Jan 20, 2016. I received a new card in the envelope, but it states it expires on Jan 20, 2016. I wondered about that and now that I read the above post, I am wondering if I will get a new card, when my membership is renewed??? I would not be happy if I have to use a card that says it is expired. When I got into this sport last January, it was not because of anything SASS did. I belong to the Rio Salado Sportsman's Club and saw the monthly shoot listed on the weekly news letter. Decided to see what it was and immediately liked what I saw when I went to one of the shoots as a spectator. I decided to get into it, but at no time was there any obvious need to join SASS as you do not need to be a member to shoot at the club level (although I am not sure how you would get an alias if you did not). Anyway, it was only when I started researching the sport that I discovered the SASS Forum (Google Searches). I joined SASS only because I believe that if you are going to participate in the sport, you should support the organization behind it. Other than the Alias, I am not sure there is any concrete reason that I would join SASS at this point. I will however continue to pay my membership dues and support the organization just because that is the right thing to do. Not sure this attitude is shared by everyone. Obviously for the long term SASS needs to gain more annual members paying dues, or cut back the expenses so the budget balances against income. I think one way to do the former, would be to increase their exposure to people not currently in the sport. How about Having info booths at local gun shows?? Demonstration shoots at local club events (just partial stages that the public could try)?? At our clubs recent swap meet, the Fast Draw guys had a booth set up where the public could try out the sport. It was very popular with a constant stream of newbies giving it a try. Adverts/pamphlets on notice boards at local clubs. I shoot a lot of Sporting Clays and would have jumped on CAS earlier if I had seen a poster on the shotgun field notice board. ???? must be some other ideas that would work. Maybe we should get together. Looks like we only live a mile or so apart. Send me a PM if you are interested. If you can swing it, you shouild strongly consider attending Winter Range. We have signed up to shoot our 14th Winter Range. Never won a buckle but wife has 3 of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col James MacLeod Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Maybe we should get together. Looks like we only live a mile or so apart. Send me a PM if you are interested. If you can swing it, you shouild strongly consider attending Winter Range. We have signed up to shoot our 14th Winter Range. Never won a buckle but wife has 3 of em. Thanks Gold Canyon Kid. We have already met. When I was first interested, you graciously invited me over to your home and gave me an overview of the sport and showed me the types of guns you used and your reloading set-up. That was instrumental in getting me going.....thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 B W , unfortunately that attitude is alive and well. " What does SASS do for me ". They don't see that this is an on going process that takes time and money. They don't mind playing the game riding on the backs of the dues payers. That's a caricature flaw and there's nothing that can change that. As long as I shoot cowboy I'll belong to SASS. As long as I own a gun , hunt , ride motorcycles and other hobbies I'll support the organizations that help preserve those past times also. I look at it like this. My yearly dues are the least I can do. I'm benefiting from millions of dollars and millions of hours of work and I get to be part of that by sending in the equivalent of one dinner out a year. I feel like I'm the lucky one. EGGGZACKERLY! SASS must begin to be the sanctioning body it has been all along. That will require becoming more aggressive about many things. It will also require providing more information, etc. For example, unless you're a member of IDPA the website is an information only- no services, qualifiers, etc. Yes, you can shoot with a club, but the club is tied to the ORG. Many less members and many more services are the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Lobo Lee SASS #40314 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Was the any mention at the forum on how the lawsuit against SASS turned out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Was the any mention at the forum on how the lawsuit against SASS turned out? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Lobo Lee SASS #40314 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If this is still ongoing maybe the chronicle isn't the money problem. Maybe legal fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If this is still ongoing maybe the chronicle isn't the money problem. Maybe legal fees? total outflow of money is the problem... any part that can be eliminated or reduced to get back into the green is good. Just like anyone else's budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Possibly SASS should look at following the lead of the NRA and for a six month period or so lower the price to be a life member. I would think that increasing the number of life members would be very beneficial. Increase funds in the short term and life members generally will be more active in the future such as being a TG. Just a thought.... CB Life memberships are revenue negitive for most organizations , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Lobo Lee SASS #40314 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Agreed, about trimming to make ends meet. Legal fees do have a tendency to take a pretty good chunk of it too. Just wondering how long it is expected to go on( the court issue) and what impact this is going to play on the future of SASS. If they lose range privileges where does it go from there and what does it do to the membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Winter Range is the biggest event in SASS every year put on by a great bunch of people on a range they don't own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Was the any mention at the forum on how the lawsuit against SASS turned out? No but that question was ask of the Judge in one of his sessions and he answered that it was done and that SASS won the founders ranch case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Marquez Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Am I the only one with a Calulator? 19,867 X 65 = $1,291,355.00!!! Where is the Money going? A complete breakdown of Expenses INCLUDING Salaries would shed light on the cash flow issues... Until then, I am not interested in this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLORADO JACKSON Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 17, 2015 - Confrontational Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 17, 2015 - Confrontational Am I the only one with a Calulator? 19,867 X 65 = $1,291,355.00!!! Where is the Money going? A complete breakdown of Expenses INCLUDING Salaries would shed light on the cash flow issues... Until then, I am not interested in this... So even though your not a member and are not contributing anything financial to the organization, you feel like you deserve a breakdown of the finances of this organization....that makes a lot of sense Link to comment
Snake Marquez Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 17, 2015 - rude reply Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 17, 2015 - rude reply I've been a member since 1994, #6178. Did not renew for several reasons, when I stopped competing at levels other then local I at least had the Chronicle to keep informed. But the last straw for me was the Stopping of the Chronicle and the subsequent dues raise. The only perceived benefit for me and my wife, Vixen SASS 6179 was at least a Monthly Newsletter. And being on a fixed income costs had to be a consideration. Just as I gave up my Cable TV and Newspaper to make ends meet. I could no longer justify the expense of sending in for a Family Membership with absolutely no actual return other then supporting a for profit business... I worked gun shows for CAS/SASS for years, recruiting for the sport, have held every job in my club... And your snotty response to a legitimate question is NOT to address the Elephant in the room, Income and Expenses but to make a personal attack... Well done...now grow up! Link to comment
Kid Rich Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Am I the only one with a Calulator? 19,867 X 65 = $1,291,355.00!!! Where is the Money going? A complete breakdown of Expenses INCLUDING Salaries would shed light on the cash flow issues... Until then, I am not interested in this... I really don't think the revenue figures would be close to that, you have family, husband and wife, and junior memberships. Non of these would be equal to a single membership. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Marquez Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Good response, the problem is how to figure out what to fix with limited financial knowledge. And I'm not asking for full disclosure here on the Wire, but it's hard to see what is actually the losing cash flow without data... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I really don't think the revenue figures would be close to that, you have family, husband and wife, and junior memberships. Non of these would be equal to a single membership. kR Didn't see the family or husband and wife memberships listed on the home page. How much are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Didn't see the family or husband and wife memberships listed on the home page. How much are they? Main-spouse-junior 65-55-5 for renewals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 And that is post increase #'s, it would have been much less before the increase. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not wanting to start a fight, but there is no "family" or "husband and wife" membership. Big discount for juniors? Yep, and that is a good thing IMO. But only a $10 discount for spouse. I think a H/W membership at $100 would be good. Yes, you are correct on Snake's total being high based on the new rate and not figuring in the reduced rate for juniors and spouses, and number of people who said they wouldn't renew due to the increase. Using the old rate, the total would be $894,015.00. A difference of $397,340.00. Remember, unless it changed and I didn't read about it, SASS will be assessing every club a new fee. That should bring in a good chunk of change. Like I said, not wanting to start a fight. I know people have very strong opinions on this. I can see both sides and I'm just trying to get as close to accurate info as we can. MCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not wanting to start a fight, but there is no "family" or "husband and wife" membership. Big discount for juniors? Yep, and that is a good thing IMO. But only a $10 discount for spouse. I think a H/W membership at $100 would be good. Yes, you are correct on Snake's total being high based on the new rate and not figuring in the reduced rate for juniors and spouses, and number of people who said they wouldn't renew due to the increase. Using the old rate, the total would be $894,015.00. A difference of $397,340.00. Remember, unless it changed and I didn't read about it, SASS will be assessing every club a new fee. That should bring in a good chunk of change. Like I said, not wanting to start a fight. I know people have very strong opinions on this. I can see both sides and I'm just trying to get as close to accurate info as we can. MCM The "Fee" was at most $100.00 per club. At 750 affiliated clubs (That is a guess based on incomplete data) that is $75,000.00. Some of the clubs, if they enforced the a 100% SASS membership paid $0.00. Misty said in the Forum that SASS was re-evaluating the Affiliation Fee because of the multitude of club formats (I think I described this earlier in this thread) and would probably end up with a fixed, lower rate that all clubs would pay. I will guess that it will end up at $50.00 per club. So, now we are talking about $37,500.00. Not a whole lot of money. There are also the match Sanctioning Fees, but again, that is not a huge amount of money in the big scheme of things, and a portion of that is dumped right back into the clubs through various means. In reality, all of this is just speculation on all our parts and we are guessing what happened, and what will happen, without complete information. To be honest, while I understand the desire to know all of the gory details, the truth of the matter is, it's not information we are entitiled to know, and any of you who own and run your own businesses know that. What Misty has told us so far is significantly more than we ever used to hear, and it is also more than you will get from almost all, privately held, businesses. When you run a privately held small business, and SASS, for all its members is just that, you will inescapably be forced to link your personal finances to that of the business. You can't get a business loan for a small business, without putting personal assets on the line. I can't tell you how many times I had to mortgage my house to buy the equipment I needed to build my business. Unless the banks have those personal assets to go after, they just aren't interested. My business even owned the building it was in outright, no mortgage, nothing, and the banks wouldn't lend me even 25% of the value of that property for new equipment purchases without me also linking my home into the mix. That is just life. I had customers ask to see my financials before they would sign a contract, and I said No Thank You, my personal finances, are my business, and no one else’s. I lost a few contracts because of that, but that is just business. In reality, most of the businesses that asked to see them, were the ones on shaky financial grounds and they all eventually failed. When SASS completes the transition to a Non/Not-For-Profit organization, then all of the gory details we crave will be public record, but while that transition is in process, we need to give them a chance to untangle their personal finances from that of the business. Until that happens the owners of SASS, (That's the Wild Bunch not the membership) have the right to the privacy of their personal finances. Once SASS becomes a .ORG, then we as members will have the right to ask to see the books. In the meantime, we need to decide either that we trust Misty to keep moving us in the right direction, in which case we keep our memberships active, or that we don't think Misty is moving us in the right direction and we let our memberships lapse. In my humble opinion, the biggest thing that SASS did wrong, if anything, was to be a victim of circumstances beyond their control. There was in a period of time, in the mid 2000's, when membership was growing at an ever increasing rate. SASS, looking at the growth, made changes to its configuration, i.e. Founders Ranch, adding additional large matches etc., based on that growth rate and projection for it to continue. Then, in the blink of an eye, the world shifted. We had a massive downturn in the economy, the country elected an anti-gun president and congress, and there was a massive push of anti-gun legislation across the country. I know for a fact that in Maryland, people spent several years (If not decades) worth of their "Gun Money" in 2013 alone buying things that were soon to be banned forever in this state. In addition, people were buying more ammo than they will ever be able to shoot, just so they had it. I have no doubt that Maryland is full of personal ammo depots! What we all need to do now, is take a deep breath, look at the sunshine outside, go to a SASS match, and bring a new shooter with you. When the dust settles, I have no doubt that SASS will be there, that things will be A-OK, and that this game we all love so much will be better than ever. I don’t say that because I am a glass half full kind of guy, far from it. I say it because I have personally seen Misty in action, on numerous occasions, and if there is anybody who can fix what needs fixing, she’s that gal that can do it. For me, I just did my part. I signed up my Daughter-In-Law and my two Grandkids yesterday, so there are now three new SASS members in the ranks. And a special Thanks to the SASS Office who promised to get the stuff mailed out just in time for Christmas. Ho-Ho-Ho, Santa Cowboy is in the House! See You On The Range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well said Dogmeat. One thing that I think sass needs to look into if they really feel they're starting to die (which I am far from convinced of) is to bring in an outside consultant that specializes in marketing strategies. All companies and organizations go throw a growing process where they become too large for for the founder or founders to properly manage growth. The expertise needed to develop a particular product is not the same as that needed to manage and grow it. Sass has said that they've tried a few advertisements and promotional gimmicks but nothing has seemed to work for them. So it's time to bring in some experts that understand that part of the game. In meantime, I'm going to continue to shoot at as many clubs and matches as I can and keep bringing in new people with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well said Dogmeat. One thing that I think sass needs to look into if they really feel they're starting to die (which I am far from convinced of) is to bring in an outside consultant that specializes in marketing strategies. All companies and organizations go throw a growing process where they become too large for for the founder or founders to properly manage growth. The expertise needed to develop a particular product is not the same as that needed to manage and grow it. Sass has said that they've tried a few advertisements and promotional gimmicks but nothing has seemed to work for them. So it's time to bring in some experts that understand that part of the game. In meantime, I'm going to continue to shoot at as many clubs and matches as I can and keep bringing in new people with me. They tried that. His alias was Chisler and rumor has it, he lived up to it, enough said! For what it's worth, Misty is actually that outside person. She joined the organization about 2009 as if memory serves (no bets on that ) and has been slowly moving up the ranks and dealing with the issues. Progress is being made, it just takes time, and the Founders Ranch lawsuit was a major drain of both man(woman) power and financial resources. As much as it may not seem like it to a newer member, no disrespect intended, things have been getting better for some time. I joined in 2002 and rode the roller coaster up, across the plataeu, down the far side, and am presently riding the trough before the next rise. I too believe that SASS has a great future ahead. The vast majority of the rule disputes have been resolved (there were a few ugly ones!) and there is a commitee of very devoted members in place to oversee them. There is a major match schedule in place that offers everyone an opportunity to give that a try, and I highly recommend it no matter what your skill level may be. I have fully esconced myself, in almost every match, at the top of the bottom third working on my goal of making it to the bottom of the middle third. I absolutely, positively, believe that... Good Things are a comin', and I'm comin' with 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Marquez Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think a issue to be addressed is changing tastes and demographics. We are a baby Boomer Sport. And that is a aging group. You and I remember Roy, Gene, Hoppy, etc. Westerns on TV now are few and far between. Movies are now blockbusters like Star Wars. Lonesome Dove is now "classic" with no new epics due for the Small Screen. What that means is no Cultural influence on young shooters. And a even bigger factor is the Post 9/11 Tactical Craze. Black Rifles and tactical gear is all the rage. IPDA, Modern Three Gun, etc all have huge numbers of new and younger shooters in the ranks. With the News Emphasis on EBRs, everyone wants a AR and wants to use it. Wild Bunch matches partially addresses that but that's not SASS or CAS for that matter. I don't know the answer, my club has remained steady in participation but its not the same people as it was 20 years ago, those people have died (we ARE a aging Group after all), become unable to physically compete, retired out of the area, etc. No easy answer and I don't have a simple fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think a issue to be addressed is changing tastes and demographics. We are a baby Boomer Sport. And that is a aging group. You and I remember Roy, Gene, Hoppy, etc. Westerns on TV now are few and far between. Movies are now blockbusters like Star Wars. Lonesome Dove is now "classic" with no new epics due for the Small Screen. What that means is no Cultural influence on young shooters. And a even bigger factor is the Post 9/11 Tactical Craze. Black Rifles and tactical gear is all the rage. IPDA, Modern Three Gun, etc all have huge numbers of new and younger shooters in the ranks. With the News Emphasis on EBRs, everyone wants a AR and wants to use it. Wild Bunch matches partially addresses that but that's not SASS or CAS for that matter. I don't know the answer, my club has remained steady in participation but its not the same people as it was 20 years ago, those people have died (we ARE a aging Group after all), become unable to physically compete, retired out of the area, etc. No easy answer and I don't have a simple fix. I agree that there is no easy answer. The one comment I will make is that after people do the Black Rifle, IDPA, Tacticool stuff for a while, they get tired of the intensity of the competition and the competitors. They always joke about us crazy Cowboys dressing funny, but they envy they amount of camaraderie that we have. If you can get them to try Cowboy, they will usually not only enjoy it, but decide to give it a try for a while. One of the things we do locally is a Cops & Cowboys match with all of the proceeds going to a First Responder charity. The Cops get to use their ARs, Semi-Auto Pistols, and Pump Shotguns (mostly 870s). They are stunned when the top Cowboys kick their collective butts with their 1800's guns. The spectators, and the Cops, walk away with a new respect for Cowboy Action shooting and shooters. It is a way to bridge the gap between the Black Rifle crowd and the Cowboys. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 A number....$1,000,000.00 in revenue isn't much when you lease Founders Ranch, pay for insurance, legal fees for becoming a non-profit, salaries and benefits, range improvements, IT as in the web site and maintenance, etc. A non-profit corporation is only required to show its books to the IRS and print an annual report. And all annual reports have in them are the big numbers, revenue, labor, expenses etc. For us to say we need to see the books is in my humble opinion, accusing SASS and its operators of impropriety or mis-management. Seriously! The issue is rising costs, and a declining membership. 66000+/- former members is a big number. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Good response, the problem is how to figure out what to fix with limited financial knowledge. And I'm not asking for full disclosure here on the Wire, but it's hard to see what is actually the losing cash flow without data... Hey Snake, why not join SASS so you will "have a dog in this fight" otherwise it just looks to me like you're an outsider stirring the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Marquez Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well, I've responded to that and my post and the prior post got deleted so I won't rehash that...not a outsider, my number WAS 6178,,,nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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