Convention SASS Open Forum

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Anything new come from the open forum at the Convention?

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

One thing really stood out to me. The reason they went from a paper to a digital Chronicle is because they were losing $24,000 per month. Advertising had dropped. That really put the decision in perspective.

 

Some people were not aware that we are going to a paper quarterly Chronicle in January.

 

Currently, SASS is losing over $10,000 a month. Members who pay annually are a primary source of income and there are only 19,867 of these. There are 103,210 numbers issued so far and 7,568 life members.

 

Folks in the audience felt that requiring life membership to be a TG was hindering some clubs from having good TGs. The WB and ROC will be considering alternate criteria for TGs.

 

The following people comprise the Board of Directors: Judge Roy Bean (President), Cat Ballou, Tex, Hipshot, Wild Shot, and Misty Moonshine.

[JD Trampas, SASS # 55781]

If they was losing that much money on the chronicle I can see why they went digital. Now if they are still losing money per month, why would they do a quarterly chronicle, I just can't see it the whole picture I guess, still losing money per month and do the quarterly sounds like a losing more money IMHO, but I just don't understand it, I'm just a lonely cowboy that goes out and shoots at the clubs I belong to and have fun doing it.

 

 

 

All for now JD Trampas

 

 

P.S. Granted I wasn't to happy at first when they did away with the printed version of chronicle, but have got over it and view it online when I think of it, which reminds me I have 2 months to catch up on LOL

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

The quarterly magazine, as it is less frequent, might be more financially feasible with existing advertising.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

First, I think SASS and the Wild Bunch are on the right track with the more transparent and full disclosure of the current state of the organization.

Second, I think one of the biggest problems is lack of main stream exposure. I get it all the time when I mention cowboy action shooting that people only know about mounted and have no idea anything else exists. I don't have the answers but we certainly need to get the word out that we are even here.

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

One of the big things that SASS has recognized was that the Paper Chronicle was in fact a very good method of advertising SASS. The ability to hand out extra copies at gun shows, shooters clinics, etc., was lost when they went all digital. Quarterly publication is an attempt to create a compromise between the two extremes. The format of the new Paper Chronicle will also be different. It will no longer be the newspaper style publication but will be a glossy magazine style, more like American Rifleman, or so I have heard. It was also mentioned that if the advertisement revenue does not reappear to help offset the costs, this too will fade away.

 

One of the things that the SASS BOD challenged us to do was for each of us to bring in one new member this year. I would venture to say they would also be happy with recruiting returning members as well. Increasing the membership is the goal.

 

Another thing that was discussed was the SASS club affiliation fee. Misty had stated that SASS did not understand the relationship many of the cowboy clubs had with their parent clubs when they put current affiliation fee structure in place. For example, my home club is a sub-committee of a local IWLA with 1,400 members. By charter, every member of the local IWLA is a member of the Cowboy Committee, but only about 100 of them actually participate in Cowboy shooting. Making it a requirement for all 1,400 members to be SASS members is just not practical. Misty said that SASS was reexamining the structure and leaning more towards a flat fee regardless of the club size or structure. This seemed to be well received.

 

Overall the meeting was well run, very orderly, and Misty did a great job of answering everyones questions. There was some input from the rest of the SASS BOD but Misty fielded the majority of the questions. She stayed well past the scheduled end time to make sure that everyone had an opportunity to ask their questions. A difficult job, handled very professionally!

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

The following people comprise the Board of Directors: Judge Roy Bean (President), Cat Ballou, Tex, Hipshot, Wild Shot, and Misty Moonshine.

 

If I recall correctly, Misty said the BOD consisted of 7 members. The group you listed, but there is also an open position that was previously held by U.S. Grant.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

One thing really stood out to me. The reason they went from a paper to a digital Chronicle is because they were losing $24,000 per month. Advertising had dropped. That really put the decision in perspective.

 

Some people were not aware that we are going to a paper quarterly Chronicle in January.

 

Currently, SASS is losing over $10,000 a month. Members who pay annually are a primary source of income and there are only 19,867 of these. There are 103,210 numbers issued so far and 7,568 life members.

 

Folks in the audience felt that requiring life membership to be a TG was hindering some clubs from having good TGs. The WB and ROC will be considering alternate criteria for TGs.

 

The following people comprise the Board of Directors: Judge Roy Bean (President), Cat Ballou, Tex, Hipshot, Wild Shot, and Misty Moonshine.

Glad they are at least going to consider changing the Life Membership Requirement for being a TG. How many Life Members do you know? I think I know maybe a handful.. then weed out those that don't want to do it and then the ones who wouldn't do a good job doing it.. now how many are left?

 

Also need to better way to provide more RO classes and those who can teach them.

 

Thanks for posting Allie!

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Glad they are at least going to consider changing the Life Membership Requirement for being a TG. How many Life Members do you know? I think I know maybe a handful.. then weed out those that don't want to do it and then the ones who wouldn't do a good job doing it.. now how many are left?

 

Also need to better way to provide more RO classes and those who can teach them.

 

Thanks for posting Allie!

 

According to my notes from the meeting, there are 7,568 Life members, the vast majority of which were from the early days of SASS. I do not know if that many are actually still alive. Misty said that the numbers as of August 15, 2015 were sent out to all SASS members via email. I will see if i can dig my copies out of my email the archives.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

 

According to my notes from the meeting, there are 7,568 Life members, the vast majority of which were from the early days of SASS. I do not know if that many are actually still alive. Misty said that the numbers as of August 15, 2015 were sent out to all SASS members via email. I will see if i can dig my copies out of my email the archives.

Thanks. I remember seeing those numbers that are spread across the world. But at your local level how many do you personally know that would be fit and willing to be a TG for a club? That's all my point is.

[Crossfire Brown]

 

According to my notes from the meeting, there are 7,568 Life members, the vast majority of which were from the early days of SASS. I do not know if that many are actually still alive. Misty said that the numbers as of August 15, 2015 were sent out to all SASS members via email. I will see if i can dig my copies out of my email the archives.

 

Possibly SASS should look at following the lead of the NRA and for a six month period or so lower the price to be a life member. I would think that increasing the number of life members would be very beneficial. Increase funds in the short term and life members generally will be more active in the future such as being a TG. Just a thought....

 

CB

[Buckaroo Bubba]

 

Possibly SASS should look at following the lead of the NRA and for a six month period or so lower the price to be a life member. I would think that increasing the number of life members would be very beneficial. Increase funds in the short term and life members generally will be more active in the future such as being a TG. Just a thought....

 

CB

or a payment plan like the NRA has...

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Cat made a plea the every SASS member recruit one new member this year. CAS shooters at local clubs who are not SASS members are prime candidates.

[Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L]

Life members aren't what SASS needs, it's the recurring membership dues that pays the bills. Life memberships are good when you're starting up or need a quick influx of cash.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Life members aren't what SASS needs, it's the recurring membership dues that pays the bills. Life memberships are good when you're starting up or need a quick influx of cash.

Misty said exactly that at the Forum.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I belong to a number of clubs that offer "Life Memberships", lots of them are non shooting clubs. A large number of them take the life membership fees and deposit it in a interest bearing investment which is used for club operations. The principal is there to continue to earn a return.

 

Taking an average of $500.00 per life membership (I know some were less & some more) for discussion purposes for the 7,568 memberships yields over 3.5 MILLION DOLLARS. This could bring in quite a tidy sum for operational expenses. Looks like this wasn't done here....too bad!

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

There is roughly 20,000 dues paying members that provide the majority of the revenue for SASS. Not many if you think about it.

As a business they are being more deligent in addressing cash drains like the Chronical and the SASS convention.

 

The SASS membership program is if you bring one new signed up memeber to SASS you get a 3 month credit on your annual dues and so does the new member. 4 new members and you ride for free.

Ike

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Big Sage, as explained at the meeting, Life Memberships was the cash need to start the game. As in buying targets, advertising, leasing/renting range space, insurance, legal fees, staff etc, etc.

Life memberships have come in over 30 years. So $3.5 million wasn't available to invest.

Ike

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

And in the early days, life memberships were much less.

 

But all of that coulda, shoulda, woulda, is moot at this point. We are where we are and we need to look at what is needed today. While an increae in Life Memberships will help in the short term, SASS will benefit most from increasing the annual membership numbers.

 

While I wish the situation were different, I am confident that Misty is the right person to handle the situation we are in and run the show. During my career I was involved in a lot of contract negotiations and program management meetings. After a while you learned pretty quick who you could trust to provide useful, truthful, information and who was full of bovine excrement. Misty is definitely the former. She backed up her remarks with knowledge, was quick to admit her error when she flipped the membership numbers (she was trying to quote from memory after a long week), and anxious to hear new ideas from members. That is exactly what is needed as we move forward.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Misty did a fantastic job. Listened and answered. She said she wants to be open and honest with the members. Good to hear.

Ike

[Rye Miles #13621]

 

Possibly SASS should look at following the lead of the NRA and for a six month period or so lower the price to be a life member. I would think that increasing the number of life members would be very beneficial. Increase funds in the short term and life members generally will be more active in the future such as being a TG. Just a thought....

 

CB

When the NRA lowered the life membership a couple years ago to $300.00 I jumped on it! SASS should and could do the same!

[Buckaroo Bubba]

When the NRA lowered the life membership a couple years ago to $300.00 I jumped on it! SASS should and could do the same!

Me too Rye!

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

My observation, when I first started shooting CAC, being a SASS member was sure not a requirment but the vast majority of shooters in the clubs I shot with monthly were SASS members and wore their badges proudly. Several encouraged me to join SASS at my first shoot. I felt a bit naked without a SASS badge and joined quickly. As time has gone on, the number of new shooters JOINING SASS seems to have gone down significantly. Now the shooters that join SASS predominently seem to be members that shoot in State Championships or higher as a SASS membership is a requirment. The average shoot in clubs I shoot with have far fewer members in SASS at least looking at badges displayed by the shooters. Club member badges seem to be replacing SASS badges on shooters and most feel a lot more support for their club is more important than any thing SASS does. I do not know the reasons for this but it sure is happening.

 

I became a Life Member when chosen by my club to be a TG (and paid for it and all my TG summit/Convention costs myself). Even a couple of years before I became a TG I attended the TG summit twice with proxies from clubs that were not going to be represented at the SASS Convention/TG Summit. I served in the TG capacity for several years concentrating on communition with members and starting a new CAS shooter class getting them qualified to safely shoot a SASS monthly match. I also got RO I and II classes running at our local club. I finally quit being a TG when it became difficult for me to communite decisons being made by the Wild Bunch, that I disagreed with, to club members. I believe the most important duty of aTG is to represent and communicated SASS information and the Wild Bunch desires in a positive manner with the club members. I was no longer able to do that.

[Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L]

It's a fine line SASS has to walk. Local clubs are given free rein on monthly matches. This allows non-SASS members the ability to shoot cowboy action by SASS rules without paying for anything SASS has done. The local club can have an annual match and still not pay anything to SASS. The local club can probably get by with advertising such an event on the SASS wire.

 

If SASS were to somehow rein in these clubs. What do you think would happen?

 

We have a free forum here paid by our dues, we have rules with updates, we have scoring program and a parent organization, who keeps records on all the SASS affiliated clubs. Insuring us they have insurance, a contact person and the list goes on.

 

SASS members need to step up and do the requirements at the local level that SASS would have a hard time doing. It seems to me, from reading the wire, some are not helping SASS but hurting SASS. I know I've seen it here on the wire.

 

If you attend a monthly or annual cowboy action shooting match and they allow shooters to shoot who are not SASS members. I'm not talking about first time shooters or even three time shooters. Then you are doing a disservice to the very thing you are paying dues to.

 

Don't go off on SASS affliliated matches. I'm talking about non affiliated matches, they are around.

 

I've been flamed before so go ahead. It's just my view.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

There are other action shooting sports that provide a model on how to deal with the non-member problem. I am a member of a 1,500 member shooting club that once hosted IDPA-sanctioned matches. One got to try the sport once for free and after that a membership in the national organization was required to participate. Local SASS clubs are full of shooters who don't join SASS since they have no intention of shooting a state or higher level match. Dues from them would be very helpful.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

It's a fine line SASS has to walk. Local clubs are given free rein on monthly matches. This allows non-SASS members the ability to shoot cowboy action by SASS rules without paying for anything SASS has done. The local club can have an annual match and still not pay anything to SASS. The local club can probably get by with advertising such an event on the SASS wire.

 

If SASS were to somehow rein in these clubs. What do you think would happen?

 

We have a free forum here paid by our dues, we have rules with updates, we have scoring program and a parent organization, who keeps records on all the SASS affiliated clubs. Insuring us they have insurance, a contact person and the list goes on.

 

SASS members need to step up and do the requirements at the local level that SASS would have a hard time doing. It seems to me, from reading the wire, some are not helping SASS but hurting SASS. I know I've seen it here on the wire.

 

If you attend a monthly or annual cowboy action shooting match and they allow shooters to shoot who are not SASS members. I'm not talking about first time shooters or even three time shooters. Then you are doing a disservice to the very thing you are paying dues to.

 

Don't go off on SASS affliliated matches. I'm talking about non affiliated matches, they are around.

 

I've been flamed before so go ahead. It's just my view.

Then there are the anti SASS matches and clubs in Canada (including a national anti SASS match) that proudly boast that situation.

[Most Wanted]

B W , unfortunately that attitude is alive and well. " What does SASS do for me ". They don't see that this is an on going process that takes time and money. They don't mind playing the game riding on the backs of the dues payers. That's a caricature flaw and there's nothing that can change that. As long as I shoot cowboy I'll belong to SASS. As long as I own a gun , hunt , ride motorcycles and other hobbies I'll support the organizations that help preserve those past times also. I look at it like this. My yearly dues are the least I can do. I'm benefiting from millions of dollars and millions of hours of work and I get to be part of that by sending in the equivalent of one dinner out a year. I feel like I'm the lucky one.

[Hoss]

B W , unfortunately that attitude is alive and well. " What does SASS do for me ". They don't see that this is an on going process that takes time and money. They don't mind playing the game riding on the backs of the dues payers. That's a caricature flaw and there's nothing that can change that. As long as I shoot cowboy I'll belong to SASS. As long as I own a gun , hunt , ride motorcycles and other hobbies I'll support the organizations that help preserve those past times also. I look at it like this. My yearly dues are the least I can do. I'm benefiting from millions of dollars and millions of hours of work and I get to be part of that by sending in the equivalent of one dinner out a year. I feel like I'm the lucky one.

+1

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

B W , unfortunately that attitude is alive and well. " What does SASS do for me ". They don't see that this is an on going process that takes time and money. They don't mind playing the game riding on the backs of the dues payers. That's a caricature flaw and there's nothing that can change that. As long as I shoot cowboy I'll belong to SASS. As long as I own a gun , hunt , ride motorcycles and other hobbies I'll support the organizations that help preserve those past times also. I look at it like this. My yearly dues are the least I can do. I'm benefiting from millions of dollars and millions of hours of work and I get to be part of that by sending in the equivalent of one dinner out a year. I feel like I'm the lucky one.

 

+1000, could not have said it better.

[J.W. Sinclair]

This is a long post but I think it's worth reading.

 

I've been shooting my whole life. I'm retired Army. I was a tank Master Gunner for those who know what that means. I am a qualified LEO Firearms Instructor for pistol, patrol rifle, and shotgun. I never tell anybody all of that but the point is that I know my way around guns and ranges.

 

I wanted to get involved in a shooting sport. I had tried a few others locally but was turned off by the tacticool Billy Bad@$$ attitudes and the looking down upon.

 

I had a friend that shot CAS and it sounded pretty fun. I already had the guns. I had reloading gear. Most everything else was already in my closet. I just needed suitable leather.

 

Since my friend was also an Army Vet and had been my patrol partner I trusted his judgement. I was planning on starting shooting with the local club with my friend.

 

So, I read up a whole lot, watched videos and all of that in preparation for getting involved.

 

I joined up with SASS.

 

My wife became ill, had to go in the hospital and have surgery. So, life happened and it didn't work out that I could start shooting CAS.

 

Things changed and I was able to go to my first match on Nov 21 this year. They said since I was a first time shooter that I shot for free. I had a great time. I was impressed with how the range was run and the emphasis on safety. I learned some of what I needed to work on in this sport. Folks were helpful and took time to make suggestions. The people were awesome.

 

I decided that I was going to go back to the next shoot that the weather allows and join the local club.

 

I talked with my wife about what a good time I had. She said that it sounded cool and she wanted to give it a try but she was nervous about doing it for the first time in front of people she didn't know. She already liked to shoot. I had taken her and my daughter to some Appleseeds and my wife shot Rifleman. She is a pretty good shot.

 

We went out in the desert and I set up a little range. I took her through the basics with each weapon. I walked her through how a stage worked. Then we shot some stages that I had downloaded.

 

She had fun. She decided that she wanted to go with me to the next shoot and take our daughter, too. She stole a set of my guns and claimed them for her own.

 

I sent in the renewal on my SASS membership right after I went to the shoot and decided that I was going to join the local club and get involved. Since my wife was enthusiastic about it, I was just fixing to send in membership applications for her and my daughter.

 

I got a envelope in the mail from SASS the other day. It contained a new sticker and a new membership card that expires today on 10 Dec. It also had a bill in there that said I needed to send SASS some money to renew my membership.

 

Well I guess I got a new sticker and continuity on my expired membership card for the money that I just sent SASS.

 

I reckon that some of y'all think that is fine, but it really didn't sit that well with me.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

...

I sent in the renewal on my SASS membership right after I went to the shoot and decided that I was going to join the local club and get involved. Since my wife was enthusiastic about it, I was just fixing to send in membership applications for her and my daughter.

 

I got a envelope in the mail from SASS the other day. It contained a new sticker and a new membership card that expires today on 10 Dec. It also had a bill in there that said I needed to send SASS some money to renew my membership.

 

Well I guess I got a new sticker and continuity on my expired membership card for the money that I just sent SASS.

 

I reckon that some of y'all think that is fine, but it really didn't sit that well with me.

Hi J.W.,

 

I'm so glad to hear how much your family enjoys SASS matches.

 

However, something sounds off about the part I quoted. A misprint maybe. You should only get renewal notices once a year. This sounds like it was in less than a month.

 

Please contact the SASS Office (they are wonderfully friendly and helpful) for assistance with this matter. Contact information is on the following page. http://www.sassnet.com/Contact-Us-001A.php

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

So I am not sure I understand some of the posts that mentioned theat a Life memeber was now supposed to become a Territorial Governor? Can someone clarify that for me please?

 

Nimble Fingers

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

So I am not sure I understand some of the posts that mentioned theat a Life memeber was now supposed to become a Territorial Governor? Can someone clarify that for me please?

 

Nimble Fingers

The current requirement to become a TG is to be a Life Member and have taken the ROI and ROII classes. You only become a TG if interested and a club wants you to be their TG.

[J.W. Sinclair]

Hi J.W.,

 

I'm so glad to hear how much your family enjoys SASS matches.

 

However, something sounds off about the part I quoted. A misprint maybe. You should only get renewal notices once a year. This sounds like it was in less than a month.

 

Please contact the SASS Office (they are wonderfully friendly and helpful) for assistance with this matter. Contact information is on the following page. http://www.sassnet.com/Contact-Us-001A.php

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

Yeah, that is the part that I had a problem with.

 

Just so the timeline is clear:

 

My member since date is 12/09/2013.

 

Not long after that my wife became ill and I was unable to shoot.

 

My membership expired on 12/10/2014.

 

I let my membership lapse because I was unable to participate and in fact never had.

 

I went to my first match on 11/21/2015.

 

I renewed my SASS membership now that I was able to become active in the sport.

 

SASS thanked me for bringing my membership current and said that my membership expires today on 12/10/2015.

 

SASS also billed me and said that I needed to renew my membership since it was fixing to expire.

 

My current card says that I have been a member since 12/09/2013 and that it expires on 12/10/2015.

 

That is what I meant by receiving continuity on an expired membership card.

 

I'm glad that my membership had not lapsed for longer.

 

I did not realize that you were required to pay back dues to be a member.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

 

...

 

I did not realize that you were required to pay back dues to be a member.

 

I have never heard of this. If it were the case, it might discourage folks from rejoining.

 

Please contact the office for clarification.