s&w revolver

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

just starting to look at a compact revolver for my wife. One of these S&Ws has an internal hammer, the other has a shrouded hammer. Functionally, what's the difference?

 

I'm open to suggestions on other revolvers of this type and price range -- compact, no hammer spur, no larger than .38 sp. No semi autos, please.

 

Thx!

 

Model 638 Shrouded Hammer

 

model 442 Internal Hammer

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

The primary difference is that the shrouded hammer of the 638 allows both single and double action use.

The internal hammer of the 442 limits firing mode to DA only.

 

I picked up a 342PD (discontinued) for my compañera...she likes it.

I sometimes carry a Taurus CIA .357 as a 2^nd CHL backup.

 

BTW - Both of your links go to the same (442) model.

[Sedalia Dave]

Internal hammer model os double action only, The shrouded hammer still allows manually cocking the hammer although it is not as easy.

 

Internal hammers cannot snag on the lining of a purse or pocket while there is a possibility that the shrouded hammer could snag on something if it was being fired inside a pocket or purse.

 

Why internal over shrouded

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

I have a S&W 342,Nice lite carry gun(11 ounces),rated for +P ammo ,Hurts when you shoot it, but in time of need you probably wouldn't even notice it.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

The primary difference is that the shrouded hammer of the 638 allows both single and double action use.

The internal hammer of the 442 limits firing mode to DA only.

 

I picked up a 342PD (discontinued) for my compañera...she likes it.

I sometimes carry a Taurus CIA .357 as a 2^nd CHL backup.

 

BTW - Both of your links go to the same (442) model.

Yah, I discovered that PW. Turns out their site requires you click on the pic as the html links read the same.

 

Double action is what I'm looking for. Thx for the reply!

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

This from the 342 article regarding the internal hammer design advantages:

 

There are three major advantages to the Centennial concealed hammer design. First, this design results in a revolver that is as snag-proof as a pocket revolver can be. There is no hammer spur protruding from the top of the gun to hook itself into clothing while drawing the weapon from pocket or holster. Second, the frame and side plate are raised in profile at the back just above the grip to conceal the hammer, resulting in a hump that is very beneficial in controlling the weapon during recoil. It prevents the gun from rocking upward in the hand under the recoil of heavy +P loads, allowing a faster rate of fire and eliminating hammer bite. Third, the Centennial design prevents lint, dirt, and other crud from getting into the inner workings of the gun around the hammer. In a pocket revolver, this latter feature is very important. A gun carried for self defense has to work when needed, every time. If the action is full of debris, the function can be greatly impaired. Drawing a weapon that doesn’t work could be very embarrassing at best, and even detrimental to one’s health and well-being. These three features of the Centennial design make it, in my opinion, the best of the J-frame thirty-eights.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Thx for replies so far. DA is what I'm looking for.

 

I've never fired a J-frame or similar.38 sp revolver and wonder how recoil might compare to my 9mm Glock 43. The Glock is "snappy" and I'm wondering if the revolver might be harsher?

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

This from the 342 article regarding the internal hammer design advantages:

 

There are three major advantages to the Centennial concealed hammer design. First, this design results in a revolver that is as snag-proof as a pocket revolver can be. There is no hammer spur protruding from the top of the gun to hook itself into clothing while drawing the weapon from pocket or holster. Second, the frame and side plate are raised in profile at the back just above the grip to conceal the hammer, resulting in a hump that is very beneficial in controlling the weapon during recoil. It prevents the gun from rocking upward in the hand under the recoil of heavy +P loads, allowing a faster rate of fire and eliminating hammer bite. Third, the Centennial design prevents lint, dirt, and other crud from getting into the inner workings of the gun around the hammer. In a pocket revolver, this latter feature is very important. A gun carried for self defense has to work when needed, every time. If the action is full of debris, the function can be greatly impaired. Drawing a weapon that doesn’t work could be very embarrassing at best, and even detrimental to one’s health and well-being. These three features of the Centennial design make it, in my opinion, the best of the J-frame thirty-eights.

Cool, thx!

[Bart Solo]

My brother bought a J frame as a personal protection gun for his wife. She fired it a few times with p+ ammunition and told him she wanted something with lighter recoil. Your mileage may vary but it seems to me that a small frame S&W is a gun a user should practice shooting. If it kicks too much your wife probably isn't going to shoot it enough to become proficient.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

My brother bought a J frame as a personal protection gun for his wife. She fired it a few times with p+ ammunition and told him she wanted something with lighter recoil. Your mileage may vary but it seems to me that a small frame S&W is a gun a user should practice shooting.

If it kicks too much your wife probably isn't going to shoot it enough to become proficient.

 

That applies to ANY type/caliber of firearm.

A past SO became very proficient with a Ruger MarkII .22...then wanted to shoot something bigger.

She picked out the biggest revolver in the safe (S&W 629 w/8 3/8" barrel) and proceeded to pulverize tin cans on our home range.

Had a discussion yesterday with a friend's wife regarding how much she really LIKES shooting her Ruger LCP .380...and how much I really HATED using my Kel-Tec on a similar platform (since traded off).

 

Point being, if one has confidence due to training (sight acquisition and trigger control), along with a firearm that fits, one will shoot enough to become proficient if supplied with enough ammo and a place to practice.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

What about a "J" frame chambered for 6 rounds of .32 HR mag. she can shoot .32 S&W longs for practice till she gets used to it ...

 

A even the .32 S&W loaded with 115 gr RNFP Lyman cast bullets that clock 900 FPS. should discourage those that need it...

My boys started use this gun and loads at age 9 ... Before that they shot .22 Longrifle ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Blastmaster]

Perhaps consider a 'steel' J-frame size with grips sufficient to get all fingers on? Yes, it would be heavier, but the felt recoil would be more manageable and make it more enjoyable to shoot, thus, more practice. Down load some ammo for practice and work up from there. Of course, carry your self-defense ammo when out in public.

 

Shooter/owner should look forward to a practice session with their CCW gun, rather than dread it.

 

Just spoke with a lady with an ultra-lite J-frame and she is dissatisfied with the harsh recoil. Have a friend that says the same thing with his ultra-lite Smith, Post #4 agrees.

 

Perhaps, let her decide what CCW she wants, but that is not what was asked.

 

Good luck

[Cornbread lawman]

Both of those revolvers are great guns for what you are looking for. Just a fact of life that little guns loaded with brisk cartridges can be a hand full. I would suggest using down loaded or cowboy loads for practice. Work up to +P's.

[Bad Hand]

I would suggest the Ruger LCR, lightweight and the best trigger I've experienced in a small revolver. http://ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html?r=y

[Blastmaster]

What about a "J" frame chambered for 6 rounds of .32 HR mag. she can shoot .32 S&W longs for practice till she gets used to it ...

 

A even the .32 S&W loaded with 115 gr RNFP Lyman cast bullets that clock 900 FPS. should discourage those that need it...

My boys started use this gun and loads at age 9 ... Before that they shot .22 Longrifle ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Can accomplish same purpose (ultra lite loads) with reloading 38 Short Colt brass..

 

Oh heck, 38specials do 90% of what we are talking about.

 

I really like the 32 mag platform, but it is a specialty caliber that really doesn't do anything better that what is already out there.

[Pit Bull Tex]

I got my wife a S & W 642 AIR WEIGHT 5 shot ,SS with 2 1/2" barrel.Very smooth little DA.Shoot cowboy loads to just shoot.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

My brother bought a J frame as a personal protection gun for his wife. She fired it a few times with p+ ammunition and told him she wanted something with lighter recoil. Your mileage may vary but it seems to me that a small frame S&W is a gun a user should practice shooting. If it kicks too much your wife probably isn't going to shoot it enough to become proficient.

 

So why not just buy non +P ammunition?

 

There are some very good commercial non+P ammunition choices for the 38 Special out there.

[Tom Bullweed]

The S&W 442 and 642 Centennials have been around for a long time and are very popular. They are reliable guns with plenty of power and few controls. I would suggest letting your wife just shoot standard .38 Specials for now. The next step down is a long one.

Remember that small guns are typically made more for carrying than shooting. If smll guns were comfortable to shoot, there would no big guns in the same chambering.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

The S&W 442 and 642 Centennials have been around for a long time and are very popular. They are reliable guns with plenty of power and few controls. I would suggest letting your wife just shoot standard .38 Specials for now. The next step down is a long one.

Remember that small guns are typically made more for carrying than shooting. If smll guns were comfortable to shoot, there would no big guns in the same chambering.

Great input, thx. Whatever we do, there will be initial training by a firearms instructor. (I learned long ago that for the most part, husbands and wives make lousy teachers and pupils for each other! )

 

The indoor range I go to has a nice variety of guns to rent, so she'll have a chance to sample what feels right.

 

Thx everyone!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

One of my daily CCW guns is the S&W 'internal' hammer "J" frame. Carry it in my pocket--

It's the model 340 in .357. I carry .38 Federal Hydro-shocks in it.

My SIL who is an LEO also carries one as a back-up(get off me)gun, on the job.

These a great guns for self defense.

The enclosed hammer keeps crud/lint/dirt etc. out of the action, and is all but impossible to fire buy accident.

Highly recommend this style of revolver for SD.

OLG

[Marauder SASS #13056]

We attended the firearms familiarization given by the county. In every class, there are at least one and sometimes two people that have had a crisis of some sort and want a gun - a good idea.

So they go down and buy a light snub-nose 38. One was a Charter Arms, one a S&W, one a Taurus and one unknown. When we get to the firing range, they are shocked by the recoil. At least two had their hands injured (even after being shown how to properly hold and shoot.) And they have quit after 25 rounds. (We shoot 50 rounds in two sessions.)

 

As has been mentioned, you need to learn with a light recoiling gun - such as a 22 or a full-sized revolver using light loads. THEN you can step up to the fire-breathing-dragons such as an air-weight with a 2 inch barrel and +P loads. They seem to kick as much or more than my 44 Magnums.

[Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968]

Kat and I have carried S&W model 36s for a number of years. They are a couple of our favorite CCW.

 

We do not use +P ammunition. We have much better control with Federal 110 gr low recoil hydra shock or hornady 110 gr FTX critical defense loads.

 

During practice we use multiple hit philosophy and these rounds give good accuracy and control.

 

As others have said, find something she likes and practice, practice, practice.

 

Yellowstone.

[Moose Wesson]

Perhaps consider a 'steel' J-frame size with grips sufficient to get all fingers on? Yes, it would be heavier, but the felt recoil would be more manageable and make it more enjoyable to shoot, thus, more practice. Down load some ammo for practice and work up from there. Of course, carry your self-defense ammo when out in public.

 

Shooter/owner should look forward to a practice session with their CCW gun, rather than dread it.

 

 

Good luck

+1 on the steel frame, I recommend the S&W 640 with38 spl ammo.

 

Moose

[Bad Hand]

A really good .38 load is the Federal P38MA, it's designed to expand out of short barrel revolvers. http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=828

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

I occasionally practice with my S&W 642 using cowboy loads. Carry it with 135 gr. Gold Dots. If I ever have to use it, recoil will not be an issue. My nerves will cancel it out big time. BTW - I carry it with the tiny Ladysmith grips as they conceal better.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

I'm rather fond of the Taurus 85s. Between my wife and I we have four of them. Two are blued, steel framed, DA only with a spurless hammer. Her's is the same except stainless. The last one is a three inch, conventional hammer version.

They come with a boot type rubber grip. I, however, prefer wood grips. I've picked up several of the old "Birdhead" grips that Taurus used to supply them with. I cut the bottom off even with the bottom of the gripframe.

[Henry T Harrison]

During a 38 year law enforcement career I carried everything from a .22 Beretta up to a .45 Colt Officers Model when off duty. The first gun I ever carried off duty was a Model 36 and it's still my go to gun the one I always fall back on. I have no confidence in any .38 round expanding from a 2 inch barrel so the round I carry is a plain Jane 148 grain full wad cutter target load. It cuts a nice clean hole that lets out a lot of blood with minimal recoil and minimal over penetration.

[Alpo]

My everyday-whenever-I-got-my-pants-on gun is a 642. Liked it so much I got one for my daughter, and she loves hers also.

 

Some years back I lucked on to a 638, and carried it for a while. Found one bad thing about it.

 

 

The groove in the shroud, that the hammer runs in, picks up pocket lint. Unless you are conscientious about keeping it clean, it can pick up enough that it will prevent the hammer from going back enough to fire.

 

As for the 32 H&R J, the only ones I've seen are Titanium framed.

 

 

With my loads using the 32/20 115 RNF bullet at 850 over an Oehler Chronograph, kicks likeca sumbich, with that light frame. A steel-framed one would be fine, and an aluminum would probably be okay, but that Ti one is plumb SNAPPY.

[Warden Callaway]

just starting to look at a compact revolver for my wife. One of these S&Ws has an internal hammer, the other has a shrouded hammer. Functionally, what's the difference?

 

I'm open to suggestions on other revolvers of this type and price range -- compact, no hammer spur, no larger than .38 sp. No semi autos, please.

 

Thx!

 

Model 638 Shrouded Hammer

 

model 442 Internal Hammer

You'll be far ahead letting her pick out her own gun.

[Blastmaster]

You'll be far ahead letting her pick out her own gun.

My recommendation too!

 

I've see quite a few people not be able to reliably work a DA only revolver.

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

No gun is without recoil. Find a way to shoot several (a range that rents guns comes to mind) and choose from there.

[J-BAR #18287]

The missus and I both carry J-Frames with +P .38s. Both have Crimson Trace grips, which are quite comfortable with the +P ammo.

 

Grips can affect perceived recoil as much as ammo.

 

Experiment.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I will go with Bad Hand and recommend the Ruger LCR and LCR-X. To my mind the LCR is the better pocket rocket revolver. And they do not have the stoopid sidelock that goes south Smith is so enamored with