Lead blood levels?

[Roger Rapid]

There was a discussion at our range a few shoots ago about elevated lead levels in the blood because of handling lead and breathing lead particulate. Some voiced that this was a special concern for TOs who stand at the firing line for extended periods. Have any of you had blood tests (blood Pb / ZnPP / FEP) and if so, are you levels high?

 

My doc says that there is probably very little lead absorption through the fingers from handling lead - is he right?

 

Can any doctor-shooters out there comment on this?

 

RR

[Billy the Avenger]

I had mine tested it was 11

They said it was normal

I only had it tested because the doc was taking blood for another test

I t o a lot been shoot sass for 5 year

Just this year switched to Molly coated bullets

I tumble my brass outside

Billy the Avenger

[G W Wade]

Finally got brave enough to go and get checked a few years ago. Friends who ran small bullet casting companies that had both had problems urged me to go. The test is a simple blood draw, but can get expensive, depending on what test plates they use. Guess I am not as careless at safety and handling as I feared. Tests were fine. One of the two, found he was absorbing lead while cleaning his pistols! The lead was incorperated into the cleaning fluid and absorbed thru cracks in his hands. Now he wears rubber gloves for gun cleaning chores. There are several products available thru Brownells and Dillon for cleaning your hands after handling lead, like wipes and soaps Good luck GW My tests were for heavy metals, due to working with radiators and others things on top of casting bullets and sinkers. that's why some tests were higher.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The worst source for lead dust is from dry tumbling your empty cases.

ALWAYS wear a dust mask when around that stuff.

OLG

[Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310]

Lead, except from the type in gasoline is not absorbed through the skin. Dust, vapors in an enclosed range and not washing your hands after shooting or handling lead and then eating with your hands are some of the main causes.

After a match I notice about 15 to 20% of participants washing their hands before eating. I'm also guessing that the primer residue that gets all over my dillion 550 around the primer punch area is also loaded with lead.

[Bailey Creek,5759]

I have mine tested every year for work.

I was told the only one that ever failed was, someone who was a Civil War shooter that kept round balls in his mouth.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Maybe lead can't be absorbed through the skin but lead oxide, that white dust looking stuff that gets on older lead sure can. I have mine tested every couple of years, varies from 7 to 11. The doc says that is in the normal range for our area so he won't authorize the test every year.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

The worst source for lead dust is from dry tumbling your empty cases.

ALWAYS wear a dust mask when around that stuff.

OLG

Lead dust is finer than the normal dust mask will protect you from. You need a respirator with a 100 rating (P, N, or R).

 

Ingestion and inhalation are the two main methods of elevated lead levels. Wash your hands, move your tumbler outside or to the garage, don't smoke or eat while reloading or shooting.

 

Unfortunately, I will not be getting mine tested any more, as Iowa has a regulation that forces doctors and labs to report any level over 20 to the state. OSHA gets worried at 30, but mine tested at 21. This was 4 months after a 42 reading, yet the state sent me a multi page form to fill out and return. I pitched it, and now will never again be sure what my level is. I will not submit to them deciding to come in and condemn my house. I have purchased lead detection kits and am certain that all my problems stemmed from the tumbler in the gun room (now in the garage), and shooting indoors (I have since ceased to do this). My level dropped from 42 to 21 in 4 months after taking these steps. I'm confident that my levels have returned to normal ( they will if you remove the source), as I have done extensive research into the causes of elevated lead levels. Some folks are more prone than others to have lead accumulate in their bodies, I must be one of them.

 

Just use common sense about hygiene and you'll probably be fine. If you can have your blood tested without repercussions, you should do so.

 

CR

[John Boy]

Have any of you had blood tests (blood Pb / ZnPP / FEP) and if so, are you levels high?

 

Tested every year and level has been less than 12

[Yul Lose]

Just had a yearly physical done and my doc assured me that if I washed my hands after shooting and reloading and since I wet tumble my brass there is no way my lead levels can rise. According to him lead cannot enter your body when handling the bullets during reloading, but it can if you don't wash your hands thoroughly before eating with the lead contaminated hands. It can enter through your respiratory system also and that was one of the main factors that got me into wet tumbling my brass.

[Three Foot Johnson]

I worked at a lead smelter for 23 years, and have had blood lead levels in the 90's before. IIRC, toward the end of the plant's existence in 2001, 38 ppm warranted medical removal to an approved "low lead" work area, and we weren't allowed back out into the plant until it dropped to... 21, I believe. Some people are more susceptible than others, and I was one who spent a lot of time on medical removal - at least 4 months a year. We would typically smelt, process, and ship about 200 tons of lead every 24 hours, and it was a nasty environment to work in.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

J Bar Binks;

 

How much lead do you have at Home ...

I would have Tons,,,

 

Jabez Cowboy

[FriscoCounty]

Since I cast my own bullets for many of the calibers I shoot, I do have my lead level tested every 2 years. It is within normal levels. The important part of the process is to use common sense. When I cast, or handle lead, I make sure I don't have any food or drink around. I always wash my hands after contact, before eating, drinking, touching my face. I cast in a well ventilated area, etc.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

A real lead test is when the Doc takes a nail clipping & some hair..that determines if it's got into your bones which can then be a significant problem..the normal blood test is based on the 10 litre method so if you are 1.6 then your actual reading is 16...over 20 is when there can be concern but you can have a reading of 40 above & feel no effects..if high & you isolate the problem 'as in dry tumbling, casting, loading' etc then over time the level will come down..blood transfusions are a way for some.

Washing hands , gloves & good practise are important but something that a lot of people don't realise is lead can be absorbed through the eyes.

Some say drink a lot of milk after being around lead..not sure if that works but I do myself.

My lead at present is 14..as I cast regularly I have a test every 3 months.

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

just had my annual of 3 heavy metals the doc quoted i was way lower then the standard for each. i cast lube my bullets and corn cob clean my brass in a dillon

don't always use the propper ventalation methods

[Noz]

10 years ago or so, I asked my doctor to do a lead test because I shoot almost exclusively lead bullets that I have cast. He asked me a few questions and refused my request. He said my exposure was minimal at the worst and because of my age, the test was not worth the effort. If I had been 16 he would have tested.

[Deadeye George]

I guess I don't understand something.........

 

If "Normal" or "Average" are terms being used to rate the "Average" person in regards to lead levels in their body, then how can one who subjects themselves to constant exposure to lead (shooting, handling lead, tumbling, etc) be getting "average" test results?

 

I would think the "Average" person would have little or no contact with lead as we shooter/reloaders do and that we would be expected to have much higher than average test scores........ assuming the tests are really accurate and actually tell us something!

 

Are we kidding ourselves just because we enjoy what we are doing?

[Ramblin Gambler]

Lead, except from the type in gasoline is not absorbed through the skin. Dust, vapors in an enclosed range and not washing your hands after shooting or handling lead and then eating with your hands are some of the main causes.

After a match I notice about 15 to 20% of participants washing their hands before eating. I'm also guessing that the primer residue that gets all over my dillion 550 around the primer punch area is also loaded with lead.

 

ruh roh. I love eating with dirty hands after a shoot. Something about whatever that is on my hands makes everything taste better. I thought it was powder residue though, not lead.

 

So what kinds of problems can too much lead cause?

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I guess I don't understand something.........

 

If "Normal" or "Average" are terms being used to rate the "Average" person in regards to lead levels in their body, then how can one who subjects themselves to constant exposure to lead (shooting, handling lead, tumbling, etc) be getting "average" test results?

 

I would think the "Average" person would have little or no contact with lead as we shooter/reloaders do and that we would be expected to have much higher than average test scores........ assuming the tests are really accurate and actually tell us something!

 

Are we kidding ourselves just because we enjoy what we are doing?

 

ruh roh. I love eating with dirty hands after a shoot. Something about whatever that is on my hands makes everything taste better. I thought it was powder residue though, not lead.

 

So what kinds of problems can too much lead cause?

Long term exposure to high (OSHA says over 40) can lead to brain damage in adults. In younger children (the younger the more susceptible), the damage begins well below the acceptable safe levels for adults. Before the lead was removed from gasoline, the average in US adults was about 10 to 12. Today, it is more like 3 to 4. Anything in the 10 to 15 range should not cause great angst. I saw a specialist who would not proscribe chelation below 70.

 

Leadville, CO, had an issue with brain damage in the children. The wells were contaminated from the lead mining in the area. Reduced IQ is permanent. Problem has been addressed, but it's important to know that children can suffer serious damage at a much lower level than adults.

 

Hope this helps with the general understanding.

 

CR

[Lead Ringer]

I guess I don't understand something.........

 

If "Normal" or "Average" are terms being used to rate the "Average" person in regards to lead levels in their body, then how can one who subjects themselves to constant exposure to lead (shooting, handling lead, tumbling, etc) be getting "average" test results?

 

I would think the "Average" person would have little or no contact with lead as we shooter/reloaders do and that we would be expected to have much higher than average test scores........ assuming the tests are really accurate and actually tell us something!

 

Are we kidding ourselves just because we enjoy what we are doing?

I don't think so? People with no exposure to shooting and loading can have levels of 2-9 easy. Gotta look at the environment they work and live in. People that live in old city's can have higher lead levels. Plumbing, old buildings, paint, etc.

what do you do for a living? Remodeling old Homes and buildings will give you lead exposure!!! Lead was in all sorts is stuff prior to 1970's.

I've tested as high as 23. And that was two years prior to me manufacturing bullets. I'm convinced it was a combination of years worth of remodeling and not taking precautions with my tumbling and washing.

Last I tested it was 21 and hopefully going down.

I also believe running a timmer a lot has elevated it also. Think of how much junk you breath in when your on the clock.

Regards,

Ringer

[Texas Lizard]

10 years ago or so, I asked my doctor to do a lead test because I shoot almost exclusively lead bullets that I have cast. He asked me a few questions and refused my request. He said my exposure was minimal at the worst and because of my age, the test was not worth the effort. If I had been 16 he would have tested.

Sounds like he is saying you are going to be dead, before you have lead problems...That should make you feel better...

 

TL

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I've seen a lot of western movies where people died from absorbing lead through their skin.

[Noz]

Sounds like he is saying you are going to be dead, before you have lead problems...That should make you feel better...

 

TL

That's the way I understood it.

[Chili Pepper Kid, SASS #60463]

Lead dust is finer than the normal dust mask will protect you from. You need a respirator with a 100 rating (P, N, or R).

 

Ingestion and inhalation are the two main methods of elevated lead levels. Wash your hands, move your tumbler outside or to the garage, don't smoke or eat while reloading or shooting.

 

Unfortunately, I will not be getting mine tested any more, as Iowa has a regulation that forces doctors and labs to report any level over 20 to the state. OSHA gets worried at 30, but mine tested at 21. This was 4 months after a 42 reading, yet the state sent me a multi page form to fill out and return. I pitched it, and now will never again be sure what my level is. I will not submit to them deciding to come in and condemn my house. I have purchased lead detection kits and am certain that all my problems stemmed from the tumbler in the gun room (now in the garage), and shooting indoors (I have since ceased to do this). My level dropped from 42 to 21 in 4 months after taking these steps. I'm confident that my levels have returned to normal ( they will if you remove the source), as I have done extensive research into the causes of elevated lead levels. Some folks are more prone than others to have lead accumulate in their bodies, I must be one of them.

 

Just use common sense about hygiene and you'll probably be fine. If you can have your blood tested without repercussions, you should do so.

 

CR

 

Howdy Cowboy: I got the same letter from the Iowa State dept of health after I tested at 18. I filled it out and sent it in. A week later I got letter recommending being tested every 6 months with a number to call if I had questions. I called and was transferred to a employee with the dept of health. He was a shooter (clays) he gave me good suggestions (washing my hands more often and wearing a mask when dealing with tumbler). I also started using the lead wipes from Brownells. Since then my lead level has been 6 to 10.

[Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310]

ruh roh. I love eating with dirty hands after a shoot. Something about whatever that is on my hands makes everything taste better. I thought it was powder residue though, not lead.

 

So what kinds of problems can too much lead cause?

Strangely enough, alot of lead comes from the primer compound, unless they're the newer lead free type. so powder residue with the primer residue mixed in has lead in it

[Three Foot Johnson]

J Bar Binks;

 

How much lead do you have at Home ...

I would have Tons,,,

 

Jabez Cowboy

Fifteen years after the place shut down, I've never purchased any lead, and I'm still casting... ;-)

[Three Foot Johnson]

ruh roh. I love eating with dirty hands after a shoot. Something about whatever that is on my hands makes everything taste better. I thought it was powder residue though, not lead.

 

So what kinds of problems can too much lead cause?

Very little lead leaves the body naturally. Most of it ends up in the large long bones and stays there. I used to get frequent nosebleeds when my blood lead went up, and after a few years, I developed a perforated septum. I couldn't find a chicken bone, so here's a Q-tip instead.

 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

I've seen a lot of western movies where people died from absorbing lead through their skin.

I've seen several of those myself.

 

Randy

[Lightning Will, SASS#56934]

I tested 29.7 a couple of years ago. This past year I was holding at 14-15. Got tested Dec. 2 and now I'm at 21. I reload and clean guns wearing nitrile gloves. I wear a respirator when separating brass from media. I wash up with D-Lead soap after shooting. I also take EDTA daily as it is supposed to remove lead from you body. I do though, a significant amount of timing outdoors. My doctor suggested giving up shooting....

Yeah, right!

[Yul Lose]

I tested 29.7 a couple of years ago. This past year I was holding at 14-15. Got tested Dec. 2 and now I'm at 21. I reload and clean guns wearing nitrile gloves. I wear a respirator when separating brass from media. I wash up with D-Lead soap after shooting. I also take EDTA daily as it is supposed to remove lead from you body. I do though, a significant amount of timing outdoors. My doctor suggested giving up shooting....

Yeah, right!

 

Alpine Lil might not take kindly to you given up shooting and I know quite a few of us will miss yer stage writing.

[watab kid]

i think , if you really looked back in history , that there were a few occupations that would be concerned with lead , and others concerned with asbestos and others , concerned with mercury .... you follow my thinking , today nearly everyone thinks they are exposed to everything because of the hype - we live for cripes sake , we are exposed to something every day but not in the OSHA concerning concentrations we might assume from media hype - for all we read we might expect to drop dead tomorrow ,

 

im not gonna let the hype stop my shooting , bullet handling , reloading or casting - im gonna die one day , but this sport is not gonna kill me .... fast food if i ate it , wild women if i could catch them , a safari if i could afford it all take second place to the probable cancer that no-one can explain or cure will probably get me , ill keep on shooting , reloading and casting thank you ,

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

i think , if you really looked back in history , that there were a few occupations that would be concerned with lead , and others concerned with asbestos and others , concerned with mercury .... you follow my thinking , today nearly everyone thinks they are exposed to everything because of the hype - we live for cripes sake , we are exposed to something every day but not in the OSHA concerning concentrations we might assume from media hype - for all we read we might expect to drop dead tomorrow ,

 

im not gonna let the hype stop my shooting , bullet handling , reloading or casting - im gonna die one day , but this sport is not gonna kill me .... fast food if i ate it , wild women if i could catch them , a safari if i could afford it all take second place to the probable cancer that no-one can explain or cure will probably get me , ill keep on shooting , reloading and casting thank you ,

I think most of us feel that way, but there are easy things to do to reduce your risk without giving up shooting (which is what my Dr recommended also)

 

CR

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The wise path usually lies between the two steep cliff faces.

 

It's not wise to totally ignore potential lead exposure, but it's not justified to freak out and not enjoy the sport either. With reasonable attention to hygiene and understanding of the mechanisms where you can get significant exposure (from dust inhalation and ingestion in food, drink or similar oral intake - very little through the skin (trans-dermal)), almost everyone can keep their lead exposure down to non-harmful levels.

 

As part of my reasonable approach, I don't case clean in my garage, cast bullets in garage, pop primers indoors, or shoot at indoor shooting ranges. Your reasonable approach may vary, but at least it can be reasoned.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Boggus Deal #64218]

A very good friend of mine had a high lead level for a while. He never cast or loaded a bullet. He never shot indoors. He was an instructor at an outdoor police range up to 70 hours a week. This range is a very dry, dusty range and he and the doctors feel it is from the dust on the ground. Garrison Joe will know the range. It's the one next to Zia Rifle and Pistol. My friend changed jobs and the lead level dropped right away.

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

This is a link to some information on controlling lead exposure

 

 

https://www.esca-tech.com/pdf/Controlling_Blood_Lead_Levels_-_EN.pdf