New Vaquero Problem

[Max Payne]

I've had 2 sets of New Vaqueros slicked up by a well-known Cowboy action smith, with the 1st set being done about 2 1/2 years ago. I thought they were pretty slick, until I recently had the opportunity to play with about 4 sets that were done by another well-known smith. I noticed that the hammer springs were WAY lighter on the other pistols.

 

I called my guy to talk about it, & he sent me two sets of new springs to try, two sets of 2 5/8" & 2 sets of 2 9/16". I bought a book for disassembly & found a changing the mainspring article on the internet. If you know which one I'm talking about, I ended up with the "fork" method. When I got the 1st pistol apart & measured the spring with my micrometer, the springs in the pistol were 2.5", which as shorter than either of the new ones my guys had sent. So, I decided to start cutting a little off of the springs until I got the feel I was looking for. And, I didn't touch the original 2.5" springs, in case I needed to go back to something that I knew was working.

 

I experimented with one of the pistols, taking it apart, cutting a little off the mainspring, measuring it, & putting them back together probably a good 10 times, along with shooting it each time I made a change to ensure against misfires. I finally settled on 2.42", did the other pistol also, & fired maybe 200 rounds with no problems.Then, the next day I got my wife to shoot them (this was her set) to be sure before our match this weekend. She immediately started having misfires on the pistol I had done most of the testing on. I shot them & had misfires also. It was little colder, so maybe the temperature had something to do with it. But, even with the shorter length springs, we couldn't tell much difference at all in the hammer springs. So, we decided to go back to the originals & when we felt like spending the money, we'd get them done again by the smith who's work we admired. I shot the pistols every time I made a change, & they worked fine. I was thinking how brilliant I was to have been able to do this.

 

I put them back together with the original 2.5" springs. The pistol with less disassemblies worked fine, but on the other one (the test mule) the hammer wouldn't always stay back. If I pull the hammer back really hard, it mostly stays back until I pull the trigger. If I shoot the pistol with any speed, the hammer immediately falls to the half-cock position. If I push on the back of the trigger as I pull the hammer back, I can feel it positively lock as it's supposed to. I thought maybe I had weakened the trigger spring when changing the mainspring so many times, so I experimented lots of ways with it. No help. I pulled that pistol down lots of times & looked at everything I could to see where the problem was. I tried adding a little oil in different places thinking that maybe something was hanging up somewhere. I did see two grooves in the hammer, which I'm guessing is where the "lock" happens for both the half-cock & full-cock. I wondered if maybe the edges on the full-cock groove maybe got rounded some, letting it slip out of place. But, filing anything is above my pay-grade, & doing any filing by me isn't going to happen. I may be slow, but I'm not that stupid. I thought maybe I had created a burr on the loop of the trigger spring causing it to drag. I got some super fine sandpaper & made sure it was smooth, & also put a touch of oil on it.

 

Things like this drive me nuts, & I can't let it go until I fix it, but this one has beaten me. I can't tell you how many times I pulled it down & examined & tried different things. So, when I try to shoot it at normal speed, or dry fire, sometimes it will shoot five shots, but usually the hammer falls immediately to half-cock. I can tell it isn't going into the full-cock lock as it's supposed to.

 

How about it, smart guys? Any ideas or advice? I'm planning to send this set off to the new smith this coming week, & I know he'll fix whatever the problem is, but currently this is driving me bat-XXX!

[Flying W Ramrod]

You should have checked the diameter of the spring.

Most action jobs will use the standard length spring and reduce the diameter, which lightens the spring without shortening it.

What I mean by reducing the diameter is, the spring is actually thinner.

Most, home smith, will remove the spring, using the fork method, and place the spring against a sanding or grinding belt and remove material from the sides, a little at a time.

Regards

[Krazy Kajun]

Hogleg Smith might be at the range at Cherokee in the morning..he's pretty good with Rugers.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

After a spring is used for a while, it is normal that they will become a little shorter. So even if it is shorter, it will not have lightened that much. The only thing you may notice is at the very beginning of cocking the hammer, it will have slightly reduced resistance. But it may still drive the hammer with enough energy to fire the primers.

 

Of course after a long time with a lot of use, the spring will need to be replaced.

 

Reducing the length of the new spring (of unknown strength) may reduce the energy enough to give give miss fires.

 

As to staying cocked, the sear will eventually wear such that it fails, especially when the pistol has been reworked for a lighter trigger pull. Having a stronger spring will still keep pressure to make it work. A combination of a weaker spring with a "weaker" trigger sear contact will not keep the hammer reliably cocked.

 

So getting the guns rewoked by a top smith is a good idea.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Spring length is not what you should be worried about. Spring pressure is more a function of spring diameter. Many "light" springs are actually longer than a stock spring. Cutting coils is not always a good solution since you have to have a certain amount of pre-load on the spring for it to work properly. If you have already had a short stroke or half-cock mod done the mating surfaces could be worn. Also, do your guns have over-travel stops for the hammers? If so, you might have mixed them up when you had the guns disassembled and the one gun doesn't have enough hammer travel to allow the hammer to reach full cock. If you have the stops there should be a small screw in the bottom of the stop. Backing that screw out a little might solve the problem.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Great point about the over travel stop!

 

And the springs in general.

[West Fargo SASS # 1910 Life TG]

I would also check the trigger, Never know if it wore are ya pulled

through Halfcock might have took the hammer full cock so it won't

hold, Take the trigger and hammer out and match em up and see

if that is the problem......

 

West Fargo SASS #1910 Life.....

[Max Payne]

All great feedback! I never had both pistols apart at the same time, so I know I didn't switch anything. I paid for a hammer stop when I had the original work done couple of years ago, but I don't remember seeing a small screw anywhere, so maybe I didn't really get the hammer stop.

 

The spring diameter & pre-load feedback makes a lot of sense. When I had the original discussion with my guy who did the work, he said he only changes lengths of springs. So, I guess that's how he does it, but not how much of the cowboy world does it.

 

Since my last disassembly/assembly was putting the original springs back in that worked perfectly before, I have to believe I let something get in a slightly different place, or maybe somehow wore the sear while I was fooling with it.

 

Anyway, I'm sending them off this week to one of the more popular smiths, & I know he'll get me fixed up. It's all I can do to keep from taking it apart again, & the weekend isn't over yet.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

BEFORE you ship'em out, BUY this book and try again.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/615772/the-ruger-single-action-revolvers-a-shop-manual-volumes-1-and-2-book-by-jerry-kuhnhausen

It's not brain surgery-

Also look at WOLFF Gunsprings.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=items&cID=3&mID=52&dID=228#416

BTW-In those test fires. Were you using the same brand of primer?

OLG

[Max Payne]

I only use Federal standard small pistol primers. While I would like to fix this problem myself, I've had my mind made up for some time to get my guns slicked by Jimmy Spurs, so they're going out this week either way. I am gonna check out the link you provided.

 

Thanks!

[Nasty Nels]

MP:

 

You will be happy with the guns after Jimmy works on them.

 

I bought a pair from him. Then I had to send my original pair to get them worked over.

 

Now, I simply need to leanrn how to hit the targets. Can't blame the guns!

 

NN

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

This may sound dumb but I've done it and gotten a similar result as to what you mention. Make sure the strut the spring goes over is sitting in the correct orientation with the little hump up.

 

Randy

[Noz]

This may sound dumb but I've done it and gotten a similar result as to what you mention. Make sure the strut the spring goes over is sitting in the correct orientation with the little hump up.

 

Randy

Beat me to it.

I have a "new" pair of ROA and one of them wouldn't stay cocked. Turned the strut over and all my problems magically disappeared.

[Max Payne]

Thanks again for all the feedback. I shipped them off to Jimmy Spurs yesterday. When they come back, I plan to ship him my other set.

 

After playing with Fast Eddie's & Cassalong Hopidy's, I don't think I'll be able to sleep soundly until I have some that slick.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thanks again for all the feedback. I shipped them off to Jimmy Spurs yesterday. When they come back, I plan to ship him my other set.

 

After playing with Fast Eddie's & Cassalong Hopidy's, I don't think I'll be able to sleep soundly until I have some that slick.

What's the return ETA?

OLG

[Max Payne]

I got them back 2 days ago. So, they were out of my possession for 18 days. Slick as owl feces, & they shoot themselves. There's a built in device that hears the timer go off, & then they shoot the targets with no misses.

 

Seriously though, very, very happy with the work.