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Henry 1860 being banned at club level, questions


travelin kid #51083

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Hey Travelin Kid, Thank you for making us aware of this. This is a good reminder... We are shooting real ammo and need to be reminded of the possible ramifications of all the guns we are operating every time we step to the firing line.

 

We are blessed to be able to shoot a wide range of western era guns, and it is wonderful for some shooters to pull out that great grandfather or grandma's old six shooter or shotgun or rifle. Or find that unique western era gun that fits your personality. Doing so, the shooter needs to be aware of the condition, and any special loading, unloading, requirements of said gun. So, this is helpful to make all shooters aware of being safe and enjoying the match.

 

It is a very good idea to make the Range Master and Time Operator aware of these instances. Fact is, they should go with the Range Master to a stage and demonstrate their ability to load, shoot and unload the gun(s)

 

Cheers,

Oklahoma Dee

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Yeah! I was mad and missed a keystroke!! STILL MAD!!!

 

 

Don't push it!! It's Thanksgiving and I ain't in the mood to argue!!

Okay it's the day after Thanksgiving now, chill out, have some leftover turkey and edit!!! :lol:

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Okay it's the day after Thanksgiving now, chill out, have some leftover turkey and edit!!! :lol:

Roughly nine hours ahead of ya' on the edit!! I'm cool 'til I'm confronted with another "ban this gun" thread, and I DIDN'T take the op wrong. Seems like every time you turn around, somebody, (not anyone in particular) is talking about banning another gun! I've accepted the "Marlin/'93 Winchester shotgun ban" although I reserve the right to take exception to it, but I'm as they say, "Set on GO!" when it comes to the banning of guns. The last #@$%#** gun ban had me taking SEVEN perfectly safe shotguns out of my CAS arsenal including my number one match shotgun!! :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::rolleyes::angry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm probably done with this thread. I said my piece and I'm moving on to more pleasant subject matter.

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I shoot a Henry; I'm fully aware of all the possible issues and take the needed precautions and extra care.

I saw a blown up Henry about 10 years ago; I'm a regular with my Henry at a club that had a Henry ban in place about 10 years ago in reaction to this happening at another club.

The rifle is as safe as the operator; some folks just should not shoot an 1860 Henry, just like some folks should not reload their ammo.

I will not shoot at a club that bans a SASS legal firearm to try and fix operator error issues.

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Years ago I shot a Henry in N-SSA competition. even after shooting hundreds of rounds and loading it properly I had an accident. There was no high primers, and bullets were flat nose. It was a hot

 

humid summer day and was shooting BP. While practicing ( yes I did because paper targets were shot for metals) the follower slip off my fingers and three rounds went off. The magazine slot opened

 

up and I got sprayed with burn powder residue on my legs, had shorts on. After the accident I repaired the magazine and shot the rifle for a long time after the accident. The rifle should not be banned it was my fault. When I see a shooter with a 1860 Henry or the Henry Big Boy I make sure that I tell them to be extra careful when loading.

 

Nawlins

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Roughly nine hours ahead of ya' on the edit!! I'm cool 'til I'm confronted with another "ban this gun" thread, and I DIDN'T take the op wrong. Seems like every time you turn around, somebody, (not anyone in particular) is talking about banning another gun! I've accepted the "Marlin/'93 Winchester shotgun ban" although I reserve the right to take exception to it, but I'm as they say, "Set on GO!" when it comes to the banning of guns. The last #@$%#** gun ban had me taking SEVEN perfectly safe shotguns out of my CAS arsenal including my number one match shotgun!! :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::rolleyes::angry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm probably done with this thread. I said my piece and I'm moving on to more pleasant subject matter.

;) Gotcha!

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Some years ago, I think I started the Idea of putting a "stick" in the magazine of the Henry to take up the space between the Follower and the cartridge stack. Properly done, the follower only has about 1/4 inch, maybe 3/8 travel and cannot build enough velocity to cause a detonation

in the magazine. The space does not need a "spring."

 

Coffinmaker

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Some years ago, I think I started the Idea of putting a "stick" in the magazine of the Henry to take up the space between the Follower and the cartridge stack. Properly done, the follower only has about 1/4 inch, maybe 3/8 travel and cannot build enough velocity to cause a detonation

in the magazine. The space does not need a "spring."

Except if you inadvertently catch the follower tab with your hand because your hand was in the improper place and then you let it go or you snag the follower on a prop before the magazine is empty....then we are back to square one.

 

But in reality I can't see how a flat nose bullet with a properly seated primer could set off the primer above unless a grain of sand had inbedded itself in the nose of the bullet or the cast bullet had a pronounced flashing rib.

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Some years ago, I think I started the Idea of putting a "stick" in the magazine of the Henry to take up the space between the Follower and the cartridge stack. Properly done, the follower only has about 1/4 inch, maybe 3/8 travel and cannot build enough velocity to cause a detonation

in the magazine. The space does not need a "spring."

 

Coffinmaker

I've worked the loading table many times while Coffinmaker loaded up his 1860 Henry, and TO'd him on the firing line as well. He knows the rifle well, and in my opinion, is an expert on how to properly load and fire the rifle safely.

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In no way was I referring to Coffinmaker or anyone else in particular. The comments were meant in general as a possible situation that might present itself even with a solid filler stick.

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We have managed to pull this thread in another county. No longer resembles what the OP was alluding to.

"If" we start continue with the "what if" stuff, we're going to get to the point of playing this game with Hubbly Cap Pistols and banning live ammunition altogether. There are hazards in every facet of the game we play. The most important thought is to play the game as safe as is

humanly possible.

Give it a rest.

 

Coffinmaker

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Well, since the thread has dead ... might add that the '60 Winchester is one fine shooter with 45 LC's... 500meters - 2 consecutive Ram shots and then the rest of the bank = Down with a couple of misses!

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Howdy

 

Since my 1860 Henry is my Main Match rifle, and I shoot it at almost every match, I have a dog in this fight.

 

First off, I absolutely refuse to stage my Henry in a scabbard, because the follower tab might get caught coming out of the scabbard. I have politely declined to stage my Henry in a scabbard even at the State Match level, being perfectly content to take whatever penalty was accessed. Once I explained my reasoning, an accommodation was made for me. Nobody wanted to force me to do something that I considered unsafe. I hardly ever see a scabbard at matches anymore, whether it is because of my concern I do not know. However stage writers should be aware of the problem associated with staging a Henry in a scabbard. If they aren't, someone should tell them. Accommodations can be made.

 

I too use the technique Cliff Hanger uses, wrapping my left hand around the barrel and magazine just below the opening of the magazine while loading. If the front end of the magazine should somehow accidentally rotate so that the follower is free to spring down, the follower tab will strike my hand before it reaches the column of cartridges. Yes, it will hurt like the dickens, but that is better than an accidental discharge.

 

I NEVER drop rounds straight down the magazine. I ALWAYS lay the gun on the loading table at a slight angle and allow the rounds to trickle down the tube. Laying the rifle on the table this way I require a bit more space at the table than somebody loading through a loading gate. I am not bashful about explaining why I need a little bit more space. My concern is that somebody may accidentally nudge the buttstock while I am loading, in the worst case causing the end of the magazine to swing closed. No one has every complained, at least not to my face.

 

I always try to be extra careful when removing the rifle from the loading table, and throughout the stage to be sure that the follower tab does not snag on anything. It really is not a problem when I am shooting the stage, because I am slow as molasses in January, and running around with a Henry is just not my style.

 

And I have always felt that my spacer stick between the column of cartridges and the follower may even add an extra element of safety. Something to help absorb the blow if the follower should get loose.

 

When a reload is called for, no matter how many rounds, I simply load through the top. I would not dream of attempting to load from the front of the magazine on a stage.

 

There is nothing about shooting and loading a Henry that cannot be addressed at the Safety Meeting. Nobody is shy about warning cross draw shooters not to break the 170, whether it is needed or not. Why can't the concerns about loading and shooting a Henry be addressed at the Safety Meeting too?

 

Nobody, at least nobody that I am aware of, shoots a Henry and expects to walk home with the Cadillac. It's like shooting Black Powder. We shoot the Henry because it is different, and requires a bit more attention to detail than a loading gated gun. Borrowing a phrase from JFK, 'we do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard'. Once that is understood, and the concerns are properly addressed, the problems will go away without Draconian measures.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Regarding flat nosed bullets, high primers and such in the Henry magazine. There is anecdotal evidence to show that even with sub flush primers and flat nosed bullets, a follower slamming down on the column of cartridges has been known to set one off. Don't ask me how, all I know is I have read about a couple of instances of it happening. The best advice anybody can give to the Henry shooter is to never drop rounds straight down the tube, and to always keep the follower under control. Not so different than always being aware of where the muzzle is pointing, is it?

 

If there's high primers involved, the brand of brass may be the culprit. I've been having problems lately with tight primer pockets in Winchester brass, including brand new brass, requiring extra effort to seat the primers flush or below flush with the rims, and primers backing out of Winchester brass in my pistols due to recoil. No such problem with other brands of brass though, just Winchester.

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I have absolutely NO qualms about shooting my M1860 Henry rifle! The only reason I have not shot it much anymore has to do with the weight of the 24" barrel and my back problems. Rossi M92's with a 20" barrel can almost be fired one-handed, which saves my aching back. Properly handled, with flat-nosed bullets of .250" meplat and primers seated below flush with the surface of the case head, and you won't have a problem. If you want some danger, try a Spencer with poorly-loaded ammo and you have the makings of a real disaster. Ever heard the magazine spring "zing" under recoil? If a round goes off in the magazine, it could take out half your head! :o So, let's leave the M1860 alone, though to those who know how to use it properly.

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one day we are going to "protect ourselves" right out of existence = who is going to pick up these pieces globally ? its not the cowboy way , life was tough , learn to deal with it or get over it - we dont cater to the few but look to the larger picture - JMHO

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Good to know not to go and shoot in Indiana!

It's just a few clubs in Indiana banning or thinking about it.

I'm the match director of a club and shoot at several other clubs that welcome Henry shooters.

 

I just hope any club that will not allow a Henry will post it clearly on their web site and or shooting schedule; so I can cross them off my list.

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I just hope any club that will not allow a Henry will post it clearly on their web site and or shooting schedule; so I can cross them off my list.

No club around me has such a band on 1860's, but if they did, you wouldn't be shooting because clubs are far and few between.

 

One club has banded Outlaw shooting style (from hip) except SG,,, because they can not afford a stray bullet over the berm that is heading toward houses plus an airport in the near distant. They have basically lost one bay because of a bullet over the berm a couple years ago. So that club has their reasons.

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