Lankyframe #44046 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I witnessed a scary situation at last Sat. match. A guy had an out of battery discharge with his 97. He got a face full of hot gas and probably ruined a pair of shorts but he's OK . The shotgun ended up with a broken action bar. After some inspection we noticed the primer had a rectangular shaped indentation caused by the right hand extractor hitting it. There was no round hole from the firing pin. I tried to duplicate the same thing with my 97 and a dummy round but couldn't get it to do it. The shell flag won't let it get that far out of alignment so I'm guessing his flag wasn't working properly. What do you experts think? Lanky Frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 The shell flag won't let it get that far out of alignment so I'm guessing his flag wasn't working properly. What do you experts think? Lanky Frame Pretty good guess. Weaken rivet in cartridge guide or cartridge guide screw missing (or wrong screw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Louis Suomi SASS #31905 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Howdy: I am thinking he is lucky. I had a 22 round go off when it was half in the chamber - got a hand full of brass in my hand and my forehead - got it all picked out - scared me a bit I must admit. Nothing in my eyes. Sometimes rounds just go in the wrong way and POP - a rude surprise. STL Suomi (I was at a range a few years back and the guy next to me was shooting a caplock. the hammer fractured and flew back and struck him on his face. Scared him mightily - me too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Rich SASS #42157 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yep, without a doubt, the flag didn't go up to keep the shell in line with the chamber, and the right extractor became a firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yep, without a doubt, the flag didn't go up to keep the shell in line with the chamber, and the right extractor became a firing pin. Yup. I've seen it as a TO, disconcerting. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Try to find one of those Cartridge Guide Rivets......little 1/2 cent part with a serious job. Also, a damaged or broken left side extractor tail can be responsible for issues similar to this. Moot point though. At this juncture, I imagine that the shotgun will be torn down and inspected carefully. Pretty disconcerting. I'm glad no one was hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 My first question is, Did this happen when a round was fed through the port opening? ----------------------------- If this happened while single feeding through the ejection port ... This is my guess having been present at two of these type of events. I do not think it's a flag issue. It appeared to me that as the round is tossed in the port opening as the slide is moving forward and catches the round before it has a change to complete enter the frame. The front edge of the round strikes the frame at the front edge of the opening and the back of the round is struck on the primer by the right extractor. The force on the primer is such that the rounds goes off. The unfolding of the crimp forces the front of the round in to the receiver and more or less in line with the breech. The shot and wad go down the barrel but some for the gases and possible some of the hull exits the open ejection port. One of the guns was ruined by the force of the bolt being pushed back with enough force to crack the receiver frame. The shooter was not injured in any way but the Timer Officer had his hat blown off and some burnt powder on his left cheek and forehead. Also no injuries to the TO but extremely startled. If you take an empty hull with no primer and push the crimp back in place with your fingers, you can place the round in the open ejection port in such a way that the front right side of the hull can be put against the frame and you can line up the prime pocket wit the extractor on the right side. This is like when a round goes of in a semi auto as the round is pushed forward and the nose of the bullet bounces around enough to hit the frame and not go in to the chamber. The bolt stopping abruptly enough to have the firing pin jump forward and hit the primer. In this case the side of the brass blows out the port opening and the bullet some times lodges in the barrel . Both situations are not fun. Both situations are rare but they do happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful Close Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Not trying to be a smart ass, but this is the reason timer operators should stand to the left of anyone shooting a 97. And left handed 97 shooters should convert to right handed shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Sackett Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 AC, that's awful good advice. I never thought of that happening to a left handed shooter. Yikes! LA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lankyframe #44046 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 When this guy loads his shotgun he lowers the gun to almost waist level then throws one in and brings it back to his shoulder so the round has plenty of time to fall down into the action. I tried to position a dummy round in such a way that the front of the shell would make contact with something and place the primer against the extractor but as soon as I started to close the action the flag would push the round inside taking it away from the extractor. That's a good idea to stand back or on the other side of the shooter while timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTPOCKETS Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Had the same thing happen about 3 years ago when I started. We figured out that the firing pin stuck in the forward position and caused the out of battery. Blew out the port and cracked the frame from the port to the back of the frame near trigger. Lesson-clean and polish the firing pin on old 97's before running them. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Ritter Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 3'll get you 5 it's the screw mixup. Swap the trigger spring screw with the flag retainer screw on the right side of the frame and see if the flag stays up to hold the shell in place when the action is closing. Had it happen myself, didn't get an out of battery but it scared the *** outta me when I realized how close I was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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