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Automated External Defibrillator


Chief Rick

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Great idea Chief - after my 2nd P at Hell Fire I was just about ready for one :ph34r::D :D

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

I have a Cintas Reviver in my shop. I guess need to start hauling it to the range. Simple to use and gets tested monthly.

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I suppose just laying a patient on his back and stomping on their chest wouldn't work as well. But these things are not cheap methinks. And if you do not have a clubhouse that is very secure, where do you store it? Giving it to an individual is only good till the individual can't or doesn't make it (auto accident on the way to the shoot etc).

 

STL Suomi.

 

By the way, it is a good idea - just a lot of questions ......

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I suppose just laying a patient on his back and stomping on their chest wouldn't work as well. But these things are not cheap methinks. And if you do not have a clubhouse that is very secure, where do you store it? Giving it to an individual is only good till the individual can't or doesn't make it (auto accident on the way to the shoot etc).

 

STL Suomi.

 

By the way, it is a good idea - just a lot of questions ......

Exactly. That's why I'm asking for comments - for and/or against.

 

It's a lot of money - but how much is your life worth?

 

Things to figure in, also, proximity to a hospital, ambulance/fire department response times, etc.

 

I'd like to hear comments from anyone who's ever used one before, people in the medical field, etc.

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No, but that is a good idea. All public schools have one.

 

If club doesn't have one, it would be nice if someone at least knew CPR by signing in at registration.

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RJ Law and his wife The Lady lost a daughter to cardiac arrest in 2000 during a water polo meet, she was 15. Since her death they started the Kimberly Anne Gillary Foundation and have donated close to a 1000 AED in the state of Michigan to public schools resulting in several saved lives. RJ and family are always up to date on current AED technology and training. I'm sure RJ would answer any specific questions you have regarding the units etc. Here is their website with contact info http://www.kimberlysgift.org/index.html

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With the distances to most ranges, having one is about mandatory! (I wonder how your liability insurance company would react to your range NOT having one?) About 10 years or so ago, at a major collectors' gun show, in a major city, held in a rented hall, a man collapsed. A call went out immediately for (a) doctors, and ( B) 911. Seven (count 'em, seven) doctors including an anesthesiologist responded from around the hall. It took the paramedics about 7 minutes to reach the victim. CPR had been started by the doctors on the spot. With the victim's shirt open it was apparent from the "zipper" down the center of his chest that he had had open-heart surgery before. There was NO AED on available in the hall. By the time the paramedics arrived, it was too late!

That facility has at least one AED (that I know of...there may be others in the building)...now! My congregation has one in a prominent place! With the age of many of us, it would behoove ALL clubs to spend the money!

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RJ Law and his wife The Lady lost a daughter to cardiac arrest in 2000 during a water polo meet, she was 15. Since her death they started the Kimberly Anne Gillary Foundation and have donated close to a 1000 AED in the state of Michigan to public schools resulting in several saved lives. RJ and family are always up to date on current AED technology and training. I'm sure RJ would answer any specific questions you have regarding the units etc. Here is their website with contact info http://www.kimberlysgift.org/index.html

 

+1k

 

What a tribute to memorialize their daughter.

Kudos to RJ and the Lady for the lives already saved, and the ones to be saved in the future.

 

Tree

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AEDs are coming down in price as they become more adopted but go for about $1,000 - $1500.

 

We've have them at work and receive training EVERY year on how to use them....just recently completed the training. We've had 2 instances in the last 3 years at our local office where they were used and saved the lives of both of those employees.

 

They are very easy to use, just open them up and turn them on and a voice coming through the speaker in the AED tells you everything you need to do.

 

The first thing it will tell you to do is to remove/cut open the clothing on the chest and get the two pads on the patient, one on their upper right above the heart and one on their lower left below the heart and then stand clear and follow any instructions the AED provides. The first thing it does after being connected is to analyze the rhythm of the heart and then determines what needs to be done. If there is no heartbeat it will advise to start CPR so that hopefully a heartbeat can be started. If there is already a heartbeat it will analyze the rhythm, if it is abnormal it might advise that a shock will be administered. If so you just stand clear with no one touching the patient . After the shock is given it will reanalyze the heart and apply further shock at an increasing amount the second time if needed. Just follow the instructions the AED provides.

 

Remember that you can do NO wrong with the AED if you follow the instructions. If there is no heartbeat when you come upon the patient, they are dead already if you do nothing. The AED might save their life. Better to try and fail than to do nothing at all. If you use the AED, leave it hooked up until the paramedics arrive. They will, more than likely, take the AED with them because the doctors at the hospital can retrieve the information stored on it to better diagnose the problem.

 

AEDs are a wonderful safety addition to any range or workplace. If you can please get one and keep it close by. Please make sure they are checked periodically to make sure that the batteries are charged.

 

Kajun

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Sometimes AED's are kept in unusual locations.

 

In the Cardiology Department at a Medical Clinic I go to they have a AED just inside the front of one of the hallways by the patients waiting area.

 

At the other end of the hallway (back hallway) is a crash cart.

 

Methinks the AED would be more useful in another department on a different floor.

 

As commented the further the range is from EMS responders the better the need.

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My concer would be liability. What if you thought someone was having a heart attack but it wasn't and you use it and it actually harms them. No release will cover you if their family sues. Like most releases its just a piece of paper and if you go to court you better have more than it. Like certified training that's current and a good samarium law. Otherwise wait on the pros. If I was in charge of a match and we supplied the defibrillator but the hired medics were not on station weather a member had training or not I wouldn't release it unless I had word from the club legal rep that it was safe to do so.

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Have been informed in training about the 'Golden Five Minutes'... With each minute that passes after the heart attach, with no adequate first-aide, blood to the brain, the chance of saving the person from cardiac arrest goes down 20%.

 

After approximate five minutes, the brain is dead/severely damaged because of lack of oxygen...

 

Ya practically got to be right there with the AED/CPR when the person goes down.

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My concer would be liability. What if you thought someone was having a heart attack but it wasn't and you use it and it actually harms them. No release will cover you if their family sues. Like most releases its just a piece of paper and if you go to court you better have more than it. Like certified training that's current and a good samarium law. Otherwise wait on the pros. If I was in charge of a match and we supplied the defibrillator but the hired medics were not on station weather a member had training or not I wouldn't release it unless I had word from the club legal rep that it was safe to do so.

Could My wife then sue you because you had the means to save my life during a heart attack and didn't ??? You can get sued for anything. AED's are a excellent idea especially with the average age of ouf sport.

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The AED runs a series of tests on the patient prior to giving the shock. If the person is not in cardiac arrest, the machine will not shock. They are designed for the novice to use. As long as you're acting in good faith during a medical emergency, you will be covered by Good Samaritan laws.

 

I think if you had one and wouldn't use it until you got a call from your lawyer could cause you problems.

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My concer would be liability. What if you thought someone was having a heart attack but it wasn't and you use it and it actually harms them. No release will cover you if their family sues.

 

As opposed to not providing any first aid and letting them die?

 

I have been on the scene of several heart attacks and can state that most folks (including non-emergency medical personnel) do not know how to properly perform CPR. The latest technique doesn't have the responder giving the victim breaths of air which I question.

 

AED's are about as fool proof as I have seen. About the only thing the responder can screw up is putting the defibrillator pads in the wrong positions. Probably the biggest problem with them is not checking them regularly to make sure the battery stays charged up

 

Sadly it seems we see more and more folks refusing to get involved in helping strangers in distress.

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You would be much more likely to be sued for depraved indifference if you had an AED on scene and refused to hook it up due to any liability concerns and waited on the paramedics. Please. Most ranges are either somewhat remote or really remote. There is never enuff time to wait on the paramedics, by the time they get there if they can find it the patient could be way past saving. The AED cannot harm the patient and may well save the life. If you are lucky enuff to have one on scene, waste no time getting it in use

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The AED runs a series of tests on the patient prior to giving the shock. If the person is not in cardiac arrest, the machine will not shock. They are designed for the novice to use. As long as you're acting in good faith during a medical emergency, you will be covered by Good Samaritan laws.

 

I think if you had one and wouldn't use it until you got a call from your lawyer could cause you problems.

 

+1 That's what were told as well during training.

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Deuce she could but there would be no grounds as I'm not a first responder or train in the life saving arts, the most that could be expected of me is to call 911 if I had a phone on me. And in some states that's all I'm legally able to do. Since I'm not current cpr or first aid qualified.

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Deuce she could but there would be no grounds as I'm not a first responder or train in the life saving arts, the most that could be expected of me is to call 911 if I had a phone on me. And in some states that's all I'm legally able to do. Since I'm not current cpr or first aid qualified.

Well that's your choice, with todays technology I for one would not stand by and do NOTHING. And my knowledge on who can sue who is not that extensive since it's not the first thought in my head.

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We have the Phillips Heartstart AED at work. For some reason, they put one right outside my office. :unsure:

That makes no sense--everyone knows that Evil Bob is heartless. Oh wait, you are talking about work where the kinder/gentler Bob exists.

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My concer would be liability. What if you thought someone was having a heart attack but it wasn't and you use it and it actually harms them. No release will cover you if their family sues. Like most releases its just a piece of paper and if you go to court you better have more than it. Like certified training that's current and a good samarium law. Otherwise wait on the pros. If I was in charge of a match and we supplied the defibrillator but the hired medics were not on station weather a member had training or not I wouldn't release it unless I had word from the club legal rep that it was safe to do so.

Blackie, I used to be a Manufacturing Engineer on a AED line. The units will not fire unless it detects Ventricular Tachycardia. If a patient is flatline or having a stroke it will not fire. They only work when there is electrical issues (VT).

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Does your range have one?

 

If your range or place of work has one, what brand/model?

If you get one (and I suggest you do), get one with an increasing fire protocol. The less expensive ones only fire a power level of 150 Joules. The better ones start at 150 and go up to 350 Joules. More than likely if 150 doesn't convert them another 150 shot ain't gonna do it (were well fed in the US). Find a Fire Department that trains AED users and run some of the folks in your club thru the training. The chest compression training is the biggest part.

 

Now that being said we used to routinely get letters from ordinary folks (who had never been trained) that had saved a life with our devices. The machines talk you thru the process and won't fire if something is not done correctly or the patient doesn't need shocking.

 

I would look at Zoll, Medtronics or Physio Control. If you want to save money get a refurbished unit. They are just as good as new.

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Well that's your choice, with todays technology I for one would not stand by and do NOTHING. And my knowledge on who can sue who is not that extensive since it's not the first thought in my head.

 

 

+1

 

Good to know some will try and save you.

Others will sit and watch you pass.

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