Pick Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't have a problem with sponsored shooters. I do dislike the fact that professional shooters from other shooting sports are allowed to shoot in our game. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't have a problem with sponsored shooters. I do dislike the fact that professional shooters from other shooting sports are allowed to shoot in our game. Assuming your serious why does it bother you ? And what about someone like Holy Terror who started in cowboy and is now also a pro ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Agreed. Well heck. Same questions to you to then. I must be missing something. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We have many Pards who are professionals: Doctors, Dentist, Lawyers, POLICE OFFICERS, retired Military professionals, etc.... Why would there be an issue shooting with a professional shooter? From the stories I have heard (although I can't verify), some Pro shooters have attempted Cowboy shooting with less than desirable results. I don't know Holy Terror, but its my understanding that her prominence in shooting Cowboy Action Shooting and her education mixed with her love of firearms, has helped her become a professional shooter and an Ambassador for many shooting sports, especially Cowboy Action Shooting. I would cherish being able to shoot with her someday. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We have many Pards who are professionals: Doctors, Dentist, Lawyers, POLICE OFFICERS, retired Military professionals, etc.... Why would there be an issue shooting with a professional shooter? From the stories I have heard (although I can't verify), some Pro shooters have attempted Cowboy shooting with less than desirable results. I don't know Holy Terror, but its my understanding that her prominence in shooting Cowboy Action Shooting and her education mixed with her love of firearms, has helped her become a professional shooter and an Ambassador for many shooting sports, especially Cowboy Action Shooting. I would cherish being able to shoot with her someday. ..........Widder Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I like shooting against top shooters, particularly if I can watch them and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't have a problem with :Sponsored, Professional or any other type shooter. Let all play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yep, as long as they play by the same rules and the rules aren't changed for them let em go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We have many Pards who are professionals: Doctors, Dentist, Lawyers, POLICE OFFICERS, retired Military professionals, etc.... Why would there be an issue shooting with a professional shooter? From the stories I have heard (although I can't verify), some Pro shooters have attempted Cowboy shooting with less than desirable results. I don't know Holy Terror, but its my understanding that her prominence in shooting Cowboy Action Shooting and her education mixed with her love of firearms, has helped her become a professional shooter and an Ambassador for many shooting sports, especially Cowboy Action Shooting. I would cherish being able to shoot with her someday. ..........Widder You're not comparing apples to apples. What's a doctor or lawyer got to do with the shooting sports. There have been a few professional shooters attempt CAS, several have done quite well, others not so much. I played organized baseball until I was 37, we were not paid players. Sometimes there would be a former professional that would sign up on another team, and the skill level was much higher than the rest of us. You should try pitching or batting against a guy that played in the big leagues. They were ringers and pretty much ruined the fun for the rest of us. I've shot with Holy Terror on many occasions, known her for longer than most. Shot with her the first time she attended an annual shoot , that was the Siege @ San Juan in 1998. I have nothing against her. She doesn't shoot in 49r class anyhow. I did watch Idaho John kick butt at WR back in 99, his first big cowboy match and you could tell he was a professional shooter. A joy to watch. Just my opinion, like everyone else. One should think long and hard before crossing over to the professional level. It's a blessing and a curse. I'm not the best shooter out there, I have won a match or two. And, I always try to get on the posse with the best shooters in order to learn as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What would be the curse? Other than you not wanting them to shoot SASS events or is that just 49r? I understand why in baseball it would be difficult for pitching or batting against an expro. That directly effects how well you bat or your era. But in shooting sports you do your best against the clock and that's that. They can't effect how well you shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Pro's are held to a higher standard. If they don't fair very well it's rather embarrassing. If I have a bad match it's no big deal, no one will be talking smack behind my back except a few guys I shoot with. Not a 49r thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't think any one would think less of Jerry Miculek attended a SASS match, placed down the list, gave free shooting demonstration and free gun related classes, plus gave away free sponsored S&W firearms to the club giving the match. Oh ya, and away from the line, had all kinds of sponsor logos displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 This is much hand wringing over NOTHING. I only wish people would put at much energy into promoting and working matches as they do worrying about stuff like this the game would be a lot better off. Exactly. I do dislike the fact that professional shooters from other shooting sports are allowed to shoot in our game. Really? I very fondly remember Bob & Becky Munden competing at and giving both demonstrations & classes at several EOTs. I do seem to recall that Becky was Top Lady one year... Bob's success was more limited, but his action jobs were quite the boon to many an early shooter... Would that all professionals in the shooting world were as supportive and loyal as was Bob. We have many Pards who are professionals: Doctors, Dentist, Lawyers, POLICE OFFICERS, retired Military professionals, etc.... Why would there be an issue shooting with a professional shooter? From the stories I have heard (although I can't verify), some Pro shooters have attempted Cowboy shooting with less than desirable results. I don't know Holy Terror, but its my understanding that her prominence in shooting Cowboy Action Shooting and her education mixed with her love of firearms, has helped her become a professional shooter and an Ambassador for many shooting sports, especially Cowboy Action Shooting. I would cherish being able to shoot with her someday. ..........Widder Again, EXACTLY right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't have a problem with sponsored shooters. I do dislike the fact that professional shooters from other shooting sports are allowed to shoot in our game. I don't. Anyone with a desire to shoot this game is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Top shooters get free stuff, companies want you to advertise for them. Shooters like me sometimes get 11 pieces of brass instead of 10 after they shoot a stage. I'd like to thank Starline brass for the extra stepped on piece of brass I got last match... I'm a big brass picker. I call those "The Bonus Pick". I may change that to "The Sponsored Pick"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Exactly. Really? I very fondly remember Bob & Becky Munden competing at and giving both demonstrations & classes at several EOTs. I do seem to recall that Becky was Top Lady one year... Bob's success was more limited, but his action jobs were quite the boon to many an early shooter... Would that all professionals in the shooting world were as supportive and loyal as was Bob. I shot with Bob at a couple matches. It was entertaining when he blew up and blamed everything and everyone because he could not put a good stage together. He did do some really nice action work and gave back much to the game. I really would not consider him a professional shooter. What professional shooting sport did he compete in? He was a professional showman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm a big brass picker."? Your gonna make the small brass feel bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Heck sure, I might as well play too... A 'professional' shooter is one who has enough raw talent, drive, and ability, adding in some luck and contacts to land a job that pays them to shoot and supplies most if not all of their income. To my knowledge there are no such people being employed by anyone with the primary outlet of shooting talent being CAS. Further, the games the pro shooters play are not even played with the same guns that CAS is. The amount of trigger time, range time, practice of transitions, focus, fundamentals etc would likely help a pro shooter who plays CAS but to what extent? It's a different game played with different tools. Basketball is basketball is basketball. But USPSA, IDPA, 3 Gun, etc is not CAS. I personally wouldn't have a problem with a pro shooter from another game (and it would have to be another game because there are no pro CAS shooters) competing against me. Yes, I would expect them to beat me soundly, but then again I expect Cobra Cat, Matt Black and many others to beat me (including you Assassin) because they take the competitive aspect of this game much more seriously than I do. Now if there were pro shooters whose primary shooting focus was CAS then I'd likely have a problem with them competing in the same category and maybe even match with me. That's my opinion, yours will likely vary. Grizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm curious about something...... suppose a feller works for Ruger. He makes his living working for Ruger full time. BUT, because he is a prolific shooter and enjoys Cowboy shooting, Ruger management accommodates him with pistols, ammo, and travel time off work, etc......... He shows up at a match, which is sponsored by... guess who......... RUGER. Are some of you fellers saying that you don't think he oughta be allowed to shoot or just you wouldn't shoot at that same match? Would you consider him a Pro? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Widder - I wouldn't as in that case the shooter was not hired solely or primarily as a shooter. A fine and often uncertain line to be sure. And given that what most would consider 'pro' shooters have responsibilities beyond just shooting for their employer it makes it difficult to define. As with many things on the wire this would seem to me to be more of an academic question as I don't see it as a current problem nor one that is likely to become one in the near future. But I've been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm curious about something...... suppose a feller works for Ruger. He makes his living working for Ruger full time. BUT, because he is a prolific shooter and enjoys Cowboy shooting, Ruger management accommodates him with pistols, ammo, and travel time off work, etc......... He shows up at a match, which is sponsored by... guess who......... RUGER. Are some of you fellers saying that you don't think he oughta be allowed to shoot or just you wouldn't shoot at that same match? Would you consider him a Pro? ..........Widder Widder, I personally fight that battle, myself. I work full time for a firearms accessory manufacturer which pays for me to attend a lot of shoots, mostly non CAS. I also have some other companies that help subsidize my shooting; bullets, gunsmiths, magazines, lubricants. At certain Pro/Am matches, I purposefully register as a pro. I certainly do not make my living shooting. However, does that make me a pro? Respectfully, Boggus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Look at 2c: Any one that receives compensation (financial return) for doing whatever is a professional. Can be for a short time frame ( a match) or long term (whatever that may be). The financial return could be money, goods, services or anything of value. Ya don't have to be exceptional to be a Professional, but usually people associate good performance with being a professional. but that isn't in the definition either. So, what is the difference between someone that is fully sponsored (food, shelter, insurance, cloths, spending money, guns, ammo, travel, etc,,, for years) and a professional? Full Definition of PROFESSIONAL 1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace 2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football> 3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot> — pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb Edit: this is a pure academic discussion. Haven't seen it and will deal with it when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpman Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 My wife sponsors me! I have no issues being a "kept" man!😈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 This is much to do over nothing. Holy Terror was the only real professional shooter to grace this game for any amount of time and no one, and I mean NO ONE would demean or defame her for her efforts away from CAS because of what she brought to SASS. There was a short period of time between 1999 and 2001 or so when a few of us shot for Navy Arms. We got a choice of rifle and that was it. I also had a sponsorship deal with Lazer Cast bullets which entitled me to 25K bullets a year (bullets, not cartridges). The advantage financially was so small it was easier for me to end those two associations instead of listening to the nea-sayers. Currently we have NO professionals shooting CAS that I know of and for good reason.....there's on money in it. If you keep the prizes to just trophies and random drawings you won't have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel "Doc" Eells Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hey, I am sponsored in part by Spam, RC Cola and Dead Woody Stan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 This is much to do over nothing. Holy Terror was the only real professional shooter to grace this game for any amount of time and no one, and I mean NO ONE would demean or defame her for her efforts away from CAS because of what she brought to SASS. There was a short period of time between 1999 and 2001 or so when a few of us shot for Navy Arms. We got a choice of rifle and that was it. I also had a sponsorship deal with Lazer Cast bullets which entitled me to 25K bullets a year (bullets, not cartridges). The advantage financially was so small it was easier for me to end those two associations instead of listening to the nea-sayers. Currently we have NO professionals shooting CAS that I know of and for good reason.....there's on money in it. If you keep the prizes to just trophies and random drawings you won't have to worry about it. +1 but even so, there are some people that act like losing is taking away their livelihood. Holy Terror, however, is a true professional and I love seeing her shoot! Anything! She has been such a great ambassador to not just CAS but the whole firearms culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm curious about something...... suppose a feller works for Ruger. He makes his living working for Ruger full time. BUT, because he is a prolific shooter and enjoys Cowboy shooting, Ruger management accommodates him with pistols, ammo, and travel time off work, etc......... He shows up at a match, which is sponsored by... guess who......... RUGER. Are some of you fellers saying that you don't think he oughta be allowed to shoot or just you wouldn't shoot at that same match? Would you consider him a Pro? ..........Widder I would. But then what do I know? I consider anyone that works in the gun industry, makes bullets, leather, clothing, gunsmiths, anything at all to make or sell related to this game, and even those retired with tons of time to shoot to be pros. Heck, I even consider everyone that beats me to be a pro, so that makes it about 90-95% of those playing in sass. In all seriousness, I actually dream of the day when I am good enough to be worried about having to beat a "pro" at this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Deck 100366 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't really see a problem with someone being sponsored. It's only as influential as you allow it to be. At the level our sport is at, I don't think a sponsor gives a competitor any real advantage - that's all brought on through practice. I'm pretty sure Deuce was crazy-fast way before he had a sponsor. Good on him for being recognized for that achievement. Evil Roy, Wicked Felina and their grand daughter Holy Terror are all sponsored by a number of companies. In return, they lend their name to products. It's a win-win situation for the rest of us as we all benefit from better equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdoc Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I am a so-called "sponsored" shooter. I was blessed to be chosen by The Well Armed Woman to be a part of their first ever shooting team, consisting of myself and 5 other ladies. The goal of the shooting team is to encourage women to try competitive shooting sports. The other women primarily shoot USPSA, IPSC, etc. I am all too happy to represent SASS. I feel that this is beneficial on both ends as it encourages women to expand their horizons in regards to shooting and also exposes SASS to those who may have never heard of it! I am honored to represent both organizations! And my reimbursement is a nominal amount compared to what we spend in a shooting season. It will only cover my entrance fees for a handful of competitions. But I didn't do it for that, I did it for the above reasons!! 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Here's the way I see it. A shooter like Badlands Bud practices in his teens almost every day. He puts thousands of rounds down range to become the best of the best. His parents paid for the guns, the entry fees, the ammo, the travel etc. Bud enters and wins EOT, Winter Range etc. So he's an amateur. Shooter 'B' comes along and spends all of their free time practicing and becoming the best of the best and wins EOT or Winter Range. But they may have gotten a rig, or bullets, or a gun from a sponsor. They are a Pro?????? Shooter 'C' comes along and spends all of their free time practicing, etc. , etc. and pays their own way and they win EOT or Winter Range. They are an amateur?????? I don't see anything different here. The common element is dedication to the sport, the practicing, and the ability to make someone the best of the best. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm a professional shooter. I'm sponsored by a famous (locally at least) gun shop. They provide me my guns, leather gear, and ammo. Of course, the deal was pretty easy to secure. I'm kinda tight with one of the owners and I sleep with the other. Before anyone gets crazy, it's the gun shop I own. But even if it weren't, what would be the big problem? I would get gear in return for them using me as advertising. They get business, I get to shoot. And if their business results in more SASS shooters, we all win. It's been happening for longer than I've been involved in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Any of these sponsored shooters ever refused to do posse chores... volunteer to help set up targets, write stages, and otherwise provide all the needed support necessary to run a match? A few of the few I've shot with, have been some of the most supportive folks in SASSdom. I've met a coupla prima donna type "professionals"... ain't got any use for 'em. Haven't met one competing in SASS yet. Mountain outta molehills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Molasses should sponsor me particularly in january Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Man, I thought I"d be flooded with offers of sponsership by now... free guns, leather, match fees travel expenses in return for video free guns and stuff in return for a you tube video review... But I got nuthin! Maybe my email and PMs are broke! RIGHT?! I've been waiting on the same calls/emails/telegraphs. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulls Head Bill SASS#33692 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 My Wife is sponsored.....by me!......and I LOVE IT!......and I LOVE HER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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