.357 or .45LC?

[Ripsaw]

Faced with similar choices less than a year ago, the pards I shoot with mostly said ".38." Good advice, certainly from an affordability standpoint. I reload, and have recently bought my first .45LC pistol (mostly to have one) and now reload for that as well. But it's so easy to go through 200-300 rounds in a single practice session that shooting .38s just makes sense for beginners. At least that's my opinion. You'll shoot more, improve your skills faster, and just plain have more fun. Once proficient, exploring .45s or other traditional cartridges, would add to the fun. I've been thinking about it myself, and I'm only 6 months into this game. But you can't argue with the low cost of .38 reloads. I'm spending about $.12 per round for my reloads, mostly because I have to buy bullets at $.07/ea. .45s would cost me $.20/ea to reload. (Both of these amortize the cost of brass over 10 reloads.)

[Yakima Red SASS#13539]

Hmmmmm....More cowboy. 38-40 (I know really a .40) .38 colt.....

There were options in those days also.

 

Run whatca brung.

[pecos steve]

The question you have to answer is do you want faster target acquisition and cheaper (.357) ammo or slower target acquisition and more expensive (.45) ammo?

 

I based my decision on cheaper when i started.

[Aztex]

Oh man!

 

My deal for the ubertis fell through and meanwhile fondled a Ruger Vaquero in .45. Wow! I really like that Ruger!

 

I understand the Rugers are not ideal out of the box for SASS, heavier springs I gather, but for a beginner maybe not such an issue.

 

 

But now I have to reconcile going against the grain with .45 as opposed to .357..... My reality is I'm not going to be shooting competitively for some time due to other obligations but be lucky to get 100 rounds down range...

 

So an addendum to my question is besides the above mentioned does the .45 have any real draw backs? I mean is the recoil really all that much more difficult to tame?

 

I can afford the premium for the ammo in the short term..... I just don't want to be getting into a white elephant pistol which I'm pretty sure the Verquero is not!

 

Thanks,

 

This is a great forum with so much great information,

 

Aztex

[Noz]

Recoil is a perceived quantity. What may be uncontrollable for you may be pleasant for the next shooter. TRY BRFORE YOU BUY!!!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I have several Vaqueros and only a couple of sets of Ubertis. All in .45 Colt.

 

The Ubertis will last forever.......because I just don't shoot 'em.

 

The Vaqueros will last forever.....even though I only shoot them.

 

You have a lot of questions, most of which would be answered by a quick visit to a local SASS match, but, to answer one, a Vaquero will never be a white elephant, regardless of what caliber it is chambered in.

 

And, I'm sure you can MASTER the recoil of a .45 Colt factory load, but you will be hard pressed to win EOT World Championship shooting that load. You can, though, put a really big smile on your face if you shoot that load.

 

I find that NO gun is "ideal out of the box for SASS." Unless the box came to you from a gunsmith like Jimmy Spurs or Long Hunter Supply. All makes and models, including Colt custom shop guns.

 

Just depends upon what your meaning of IDEAL is. My definition is "perfect, needs no other improvement, surpasses all others"

 

Good luck, GJ

[Aztex]

Recoil is a perceived quantity. What may be uncontrollable for you may be pleasant for the next shooter. TRY BRFORE YOU BUY!!!

 

Hi,

 

Wish I had the option to try in the short term...

 

I regularly shoot a Colt 1911 .45 ACP and love it! I shot a .40 Barretta and hated it, recoil wise..... Research reveals .45 cowboy loads can be less than .357 but just opinions and as stated a personal thing.

 

These Uberits were the second time I tried to special order guns and the dealer was a bit less than honest, promising more than they could deliver so I'm a little chapped by that and will try to buy locally.

 

IF I go .45lc is there a good online source for ammo, cowboy loads? Tried ammo seek and it gets confusing to research which companies are reputable. I generally use Ammuntiondepot but they don't have a great price on .45lc at the moment..

 

Thanks again!

 

Aztex

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

Aztek,

 

Try not to be in such a hurry to get your equipment together. Go to a couple of matches. If possible let some one know ahead of time you are coming. With a couple of phone calls or emails I can outfit a half dozen shooters. I guarantee there will be guns for you to use and try, even if you do not give advanced notice. This will answer a lot of your questions.

 

Let us know where you hail from, guys will be happy to equip and guide you through your first match or two.

 

Almost every match I have attended had a for sale table, the guns you are looking for just may be sitting there waiting for you.

 

Good luck in your quest,

 

Smoke

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

Phiren Smoke nailed it.

 

One good source for cowboy ammo is Georgia Arms.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

Hi,

 

Wish I had the option to try in the short term...

 

I regularly shoot a Colt 1911 .45 ACP and love it! I shot a .40 Barretta and hated it, recoil wise..... Research reveals .45 cowboy loads can be less than .357 but just opinions and as stated a personal thing.

 

These Uberits were the second time I tried to special order guns and the dealer was a bit less than honest, promising more than they could deliver so I'm a little chapped by that and will try to buy locally.

 

IF I go .45lc is there a good online source for ammo, cowboy loads? Tried ammo seek and it gets confusing to research which companies are reputable. I generally use Ammuntiondepot but they don't have a great price on .45lc at the moment..

 

Thanks again!

 

Aztex

I personally feel that even a stout 45 Colt load feels like less recoil than a 45 acp, but I think a lot of that has to do with the gun and grip shape. A single action tends to roll back rather than push. If you can handle 45 acp with no issues at all, I am sure you can handle 45 Colt as well. That's not the problem. The problem really is that if you 45 Colt even a little bit, you have to reload. It's so expensive to shoot factory loads. You might be able to buy reloaded ammo somewhere, but otherwise you can pay anywhere from 50 cents to a buck a round. There is another alternative if you really want to shoot 45's. You get a gun with the second 45acp cylinder. I know Ruger makes them and I think there are some Uberti models as well. Then you can shoot 45 acp rounds, which you said you are already familiar with, out of the same gun. And in the event that you end up reloading, you can go back to the 45 Colt. Or switch them out in between matches depending on what ammo you have available.

[Blackey Cole]

I started with both available. I did some tests and chose the 45 colt. Sold off my 38/357s. Lead prices went through the roof. I survived it by buying bulk once a year. Now I've just bought two 38/357 Ruger Bisleys like I sold back then, and a brace of UBERTI S&W no2s in 38/357. I had picked up a 73 in 38/357 a few years back to use with my ROAs.

 

If I had it all to do over I would not of sold the 38s in the first place.i would have waited a little longer to get what I did which were backups in 45 that I never needed. I like having the 45s as they are legal in all categories but the cost isn't as low to shoot as the 38s.

 

Brass is cheaper for the 38s

Primers about the same

Powder would be about the same if you use powders designed for the smaller caliber for the 38 or large caliber for the 45s if you use the same you'll use more powder in the 45s.

Lead is were the price really becomes different the 38s are way cheaper than the much heavier 45s.

 

Loaded ammo the price will be less for the 38s than 45s. If you buy reloaders ammo from a commercial reloader it will be less but there still will be a difference in price favoring the 38s.

[Idaho Coyote']

45 Colt spells cowboy. The investment in a Dillon press will be the best money you ever spend. About $500 will get you reloading at about 10 or 11 cents a round $13, $14 a match. To me reloading is just part of the hobby

[watab kid]

just my humble [and late] opinion here , but i did give this a lot of thought 15 years or so ago when i started this ,

 

i load one round for rifle and revolvers , one setup , one recipe , one round to deal with , YES - you will one day reload or you will buy until it hurts or cannot find what you want and then you will quit , we want you to stay with us , buy for now but plan to reload ,

 

it matters not what you load , save for access to the necessary components and setting up your equipment right , so research that and load what you like and buy what you need ,

 

i chose to shoot 45s and 12 ga , i load for both , the shotgun loads are 3/4oz and 1100+fps , you can shoot all day with no memory of the recoil , choose the 38/357 or the 45 to satisfy you - no one else - you shoot these for years , it gets expensive to be continually changing your mind , its all about enjoying yourself in whatever way you want ,

 

some shoot to win , some for the fun of shooting , some dress to win , some to meet the expectations for fun , its all what you want to get out of it ,

 

the choice of caliber could be argued all day - talk to your friends and enjoy what you shoot

[Lucky Vaquero]

I'm fairly new myself. Been shooting CAS just about a year. I went through the exact same process you are experiencing now (we all did). I followed the advice and I'm the proud owner of a pair of Ruger SASS Vaqueros in 357 and a dandy Uberti 1873 357. I shot them for exactly 2 matches. I then bought a pair of gently used regular Vaquero 45 Colts and a new Uberti 1873 45 Colt. Been shooting 45 Colt ever since and never looked back. The 357's have been collecting dust in the safe. Of course this decision forced me to begin reloading. That's okay. It was on the bucket list already.

 

There are many reasons I prefer to shoot 45 Colt over 38. Primarily, I just like the caliber and it's fun to shoot. I also know that I'm never going to compete at a state, regional or national level. I just don't have the time and energy to commit to what it takes to get that good. Therefore this is exclusively a fun past time for me. In that regard I enjoy shooting 45 Colt more than I do shooting 38. I also like it when I can beat someone on a stage and they're shooting 38's. Last but not least I want to shoot Classic Cowboy at some point and ya gotta have a 40+ cal rifle for that.

 

If you're like a lot of us these won't be the last cowboy guns you buy so don't lose a lot of sleep fretting over which one is best. They're all good. Have fun.

 

PS: Take what I wrote above with a grain of salt. I just bought some 38/357 dies. Never say never.

[Sigmundx]

Hi,

 

About ready to buy into a pair of Uberti El Patron's but have the option of .357 or .45LC

 

I am leaning towards the .357/.38sp as it is half the price! I'm not equipped to be reloading right now and don't want to make that investment quite yet.

 

I'm torn because .45LC seem more "cowboy" but if I shoot 100 rounds a week it would cost me ~$160 more a month to be a "cowboy"....

 

Of course I want to get a matching rifle as well. I love my 1894 Marlin .44 but that ammo is in the $40/50 rnd range too...

 

I'm at the stage I need to be shooting to get better and have more fun so am strongly leaning towards the .357...

 

What do you think/suggest?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Aztex

 

Let me start off by warning that I do NOT shoot SASS or CAS but shoot for work (qual's) and fun. I shoot about 2000 rounds/year of mostly 9mm and have been wanting to buy a SAA clone for a long time. I was all set to buy one in .357 Magnum. I figured it would be cheaper and easier to get 38 Special for the bulk of my shooting and when I wanted to feel the "historically accurate" recoil I would load a few strings of 357 Magnum.

 

Then I called up Taylor & Co and asked them what they thought I should shoot through their guns. They recommended against anything jacketed and anything Magnum. I went in to Wally World and asked them if they sold non-jacketed 38 Special. They wished me good luck in getting any type of 38 Special and what they sold would definitely not include non-jacketed. Then I went to the gun shop to put a deposit on my Smoke Wagon and asked the salesman. He told me that he could get me boxes (and had a few in stock) of 45LC for $30 and he could also get me boxes of 38 non-jacketed (not in stock) for $18.

 

So shooting 357 Magnum or Wally World ammo out of the question I had to decide on 38 or 45. I decided on 45 LC for the following reasons:

 

1. For $12/box difference the annual cost for me might be $300. Not a small amount but I can afford it.

2. If the above number gets too large I will get into reloading which should bring it down or at least let me shoot more.

3. I want the realistic feel of 45LC.

4. The salesman suggested that if I was into CAS to get a 357 since the premium is on speed. I asked what the deal was with 357 Magnum if the guns aren't meant to shoot it. He said (correct if he was wrong here) most people that shoot 357 like the long case but under-load it to optimize for competition. Again, I don't compete but want to feel the authentic recoil.

 

While we're on the subject I inquired about 44-40. He said that was the toughest of the 3 calibers to acquire and reload. From a loading perspective 45LC and 44-40 can be loaded with essentially the same powder and ball weights. I may at some point get myself an 1873 Winchester replica. That will be another moral dilemma as I would like to get the historical 44-40 for it but with the difficulty in obtaining it, the slightly harder reloading, and for logistical simplicity I may have to go with 45LC even though that was never available in the Old West.

 

Decisions, decisions.

 

I KNOW THE ANSWER! Buy both (that is the pair of 357's for competition/practice and a 45LC for fun). The few hundred dollars to buy the additional gun will pay for itself in 3 months according to your $160 difference above. You can do those 100 38 Special rounds every week and then when you feel like it splurge on the 45LC.

[Gran'pa Jef]

I agree with the rest.

 

When I started I had the same decision and chose 357s shooting 38 specials. The way I like to put it is that in the end it doesn't save me money, it allows me to shoot more.

100% agree

 

Jef

[Rye Miles #13621]

Anyone who gives a shooter grief about their choice of caliber for SASS matches is just bad behavior.

+1….I got grief going back to smokeless from BP!!! It was all in fun though ( I think)

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

+1.I got grief going back to smokeless from BP!!! It was all in fun though ( I think)

Giving someone grief for the caliber they shoot? That's just petty. Giving someone grief for switching from BP to smokeless? Well that's just the right thing to do. We call it the cowboy way

[Mad Monte McCrae SASS #61622]

When I was shooting all the time I shot Classic Cowboy so .45LC but if I wanted to shot a lighter round close to the .38 I would load up some .45 Schofield. They have about the same recoil as a standard .38 special. But if there are pistol and rifle knockdowns you can never go wrong with a .45LC.