Deadeye George Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 My Piettta 1860 Army Sheriff model should arrive today and in anticipation of it's arrival, I have been scouring all the local gun shops and have come up empty with any black powder or black powder substitute except for a pound jug of Alliant "Black MZ" Powder. I called Alliant for some load data and was told the powder is a substitute for FFg black powder and the same volume (not weight) of powder should be used as black powder BUT it may be too course for use in a 44 cal cap and ball revolver. Does anyone have any experience with this powder in their cap and ball revolvers one way or another or should I indeed be looking for FFFg powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I used it in my shotgun last weekend, worked great, smokey, a little stouter than APP but about regular black powder, It loads the same as regular Black, I am going to try it tomorrow in my cap and ball 1860s, i'll let you know how it works out Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molasses Mike Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Deadeye George, I have been using it in my '51 navy with good results. Easy to use. I can shoot thirty ball with out so much as a wipe. Tight groups. point of aim. Easy clean up. I like it. M.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I used it in my shotgun last weekend, worked great, smokey, a little stouter than APP but about regular black powder, It loads the same as regular Black, I am going to try it tomorrow in my cap and ball 1860s, i'll let you know how it works out Rafe Should we bring some extra "moose milk" for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okiepan Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Get the real thing, you will be happier, If you need the real stuff contact powder inc, they have a lot I mean a lot of powder, I was just there. congratulations on your new pitta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Ok I shot it today in my 60s, a little stout with my regular APP load, but not a stout as my Goex load. No lube needed, a little dirtier than app, Will be using it again in my C%B pistols. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I was told Black MZ IS APP......No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye George Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 I was told Black MZ IS APP......No? A fellow shooter just bought some and mentioned that the Alliant Black MZ label says "Manufactured under US Patent Number 5,557,151" and the same patent is mentioned on another label and I believe he said it was APP so perhaps they may indeed be the same powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye George Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Ok I shot it today in my 60s, a little stout with my regular APP load, but not a stout as my Goex load. No lube needed, a little dirtier than app, Will be using it again in my C%B pistols. Rafe Thanks for the feedback, at todays shoot I spoke with one of our shooters who uses a 44 cal cap and ball revolver and he too likes it so I think I'll give it a try when my revolver arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 A fellow shooter just bought some and mentioned that the Alliant Black MZ label says "Manufactured under US Patent Number 5,557,151" and the same patent is mentioned on another label and I believe he said it was APP so perhaps they may indeed be the same powder. Same # as on APP, I just checked my APP bottle. However, Pinnacle, also made By APP has the same number & from what I've shot, it is different from APP. The Patent # may refer to a specific process, not necessarily the same chemical formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yusta B is corect same patent which covers the use of citric acid in the manufacture of the powder but not the exact process. APP Alliant Black MZ and Goex pinnacle are all citric acid based powders but they are not all the same exact formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWH Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I just bought some Alliant Black MZ, hoping to use it in a black powder cartridge revolver. The maker (a) says it can be used that way, ( says it must be used only according to their tables, and © provides ABSOLUTELY NO data or tables for such use. I can't even find reloading data for using it in a muzzle-loader, which is what it was deisgned for. Alliant sent me their reloader's guide along with it, but there is not a peep about this powder in there. Where are you folks finding your reloading data? I am loading for an 1876 S&W Schofield, so obviously I don't just want to start experimenting. Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 This just got discussed a few days ago. BlackMz works fine in .44 C&Bs. Might be a llittle coarse for .36s. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=246851&hl=peasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWH Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Thank you, Larsen E. Pettifogger! The information in that discussion was just what I was looking for. Some people were saying that Alliant Black MZ is a bit hotter than a black powder load of the same measure. I'll use it in a modern gun first to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 UPS tracking says my 10 pounds is on track out for delivery today. Sportsmans Warehouse had it for $9.99/lb. My old Marlin 32-20 was shooting smokeless loads ok but I couldn't get it to shoot real black no matter how much lube I tried. Black MZ shot groups like the smokeless with neckid cast bullets. I shot a 6 stage match last Sunday with the old gun and load without any maintenance or problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Longpants Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I just bought some Alliant Black MZ, hoping to use it in a black powder cartridge revolver. The maker (a) says it can be used that way, ( says it must be used only according to their tables, and © provides ABSOLUTELY NO data or tables for such use. I can't even find reloading data for using it in a muzzle-loader, which is what it was deisgned for. Alliant sent me their reloader's guide along with it, but there is not a peep about this powder in there. Where are you folks finding your reloading data? I am loading for an 1876 S&W Schofield, so obviously I don't just want to start experimenting. Thanks for any help! I got all my cartridge loading data for Black MZ by emailing Alliant directly. Duane replies quickly and has given me 38 special and 45 colt load data both of which have been excellent loads from my Henry and Vacqueros. Not sure if they will have your Schofield data but give them a shout. Alliant.Reloading@vistaoutdoor.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I've been loading 32-20, C45S and 12 gauge brass hulls with BlackMZ. I've not tried it in my Navy 51 44s. I don't know the weight of the charge is in any of the loads. I use 1/8" felt wad under the bullets in 32-20 and C45S. I adjust Lyman 55 measure to fill the case up to a level that leaves space for wad and bullet. No air space to slightly compressed is my goal. My formula for 12 gauge is about as scientific. I use a dipper to measure about 1oz of shot - then use the second dipper smaller for the powder charge. The loads still have plenty of power to take down knockdowns. The only struggle I have is making sure to clean out and clean up the Lyman 55 black powder measure right after using. I'm leaving the tumbler out of the measure between use so I can inspect the cast iron frame for rust before assembling again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Kut Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Almost no fouling, easy clean-up, good power, and $10 a pound? Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Almost no fouling, easy clean-up, good power, and $10 a pound? Good stuff. After shooting 6 stages, my pistols are as cleaner than what they would have been if I'd shot my Unique loads. We picked up 9 more jugs of the stuff from Sportsmans Warehouse when we went through Iowa last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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