evil dogooder Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Model 94 made in 1902 26" shooter Ive tried 6 different types of lead bullets and powders. At 100 yrds im lucky to get a 3' pattern. I can do better than that with most my revolvers. The today fed up with the rifle about to resign it to just a plinker i gave it one more chance with 170 grain hunting ammo. Cheap bottom shelf stuff. PPU fsp. If i didn't have three witnesses i wouldn't have believed it. First group of 3 in a half inch clover. Next three stretched it out to 1.1 outside to outside measured. What the heck? Three different shooters 40 rounds and the biggest group was 1.9. That's better that my dads scoped bolt gun. So the question is how do i get the rifle to shoot sass legal loads like that? Is there any tricks i should know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I would try some .310 Lazer Cast 170 gn thinking you may be pushing too fast , and stripping out the bullet adding a gas check might help also Chickasaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Using gas checks? How hard are you pushing them? I don't approach more than about 80% of jacketed velocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Dang, ya beat me by two seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 and I type slow too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=30-30%20Winchester&Weight=All&type=Rifle&Source= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knot Hardly Dunn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I don't know how much this will help but here goes. I shoot a Marlin in 30-30 with a suitable charge of 5744 and a 175 grain gas checked bullet. I sort bullets and cases by weight and only neck size. I crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. I have managed a long range rifle cal. win at E.O.T. with this set up. If you want the charge weight PM me or email at knothardlydunn at yahoo dot com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 E.D.-What powder and bullet weight are you use'n? Have you 'slugged' the bore to confirm diameter? What condition is this bore in? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 311041 .309 from buffalo arms for the bullets, is what I've switched to. They are gas checked, and lubed. Had real problems just like you, and nearly gave up. I'll pm you the powder charge. It instantly fixed my marlin, and the Winchester 94. The marlin is not microgrooved. Its really old, but its finally accurate now. Both rifles are averaging 1.5 inch at 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Eyed Kid, SASS # 37263 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Lunger, Would you pm me your powder charge also. I'm also "fighting" my Win.94 looking for that perfect load to get it more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Train Robber 13659 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Lunger I surely would appreciate your loading info also.I have a 94 take down from 02 that shoots really well with jacketed ammo and terrible with all the lead loads I've tried thus far. thanks Train Robber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What can we use in a micro grove rifle, I'm going to try moly or poly, will that help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Its sent. You guys let me know how this worked for you! Its worked well on both of my guns, but I'd like to know if it helped yours as well. Thanks, Lunger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I've no experience on the microgrooved rifles. Hoping someone will answer that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Before shooting lead (after jacketed ammo), you normally need to scrub the copper fouling out real well. Brush and patch the bore until patches come out clean with no green tint from the copper. A 170-200 grain flat nose cast bullet, about 12-16 Brinnel hardness, lubed with good lube, fired with enough powder to get you to about 1600 FPS will give you a good place to start. Reloder 7, 5744, 4227 powders would be what I'd start with. .30-30 is a great gun to shoot cast bullets thru. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Clem Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I am a Cowboy Action Shooter , Wild Bunch Shooter , Long Range Shooter and a NRA Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette shooter. I have had the good luck in Winning Winter Range and EOT long range events many times over the years. Also 2013 Nation Champion Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette. This comes as no easy task 100's of hours in load development and range time to make the lever guns shoot. I use the old original Marlins and Winchesters and C Sharps. 25-35's 32-40's, 30-30's and 38-55's. Send me a PM or call me and I will be more than happy to share with you what research and loading we have developed for your 30-30 cal. Garrison Joe posted some very good suggestions. Goatneck 817 247-9982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Gas checked .311 has been my solution. Solved all my accuracy problems. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Big Tree Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I would try some .310 Lazer Cast 170 gn thinking you may be pushing too fast , and stripping out the bullet adding a gas check might help also Chickasaw +1 I use 170 gr. Oregon Trail True Shot bullets with IMR 3031 and I have seen gas checked wheel weight cast bullets shoot just as well. The main thing is don't push them to fast. 130 gr.'s never worked for me but I'm not sure if I ever tried slowing them down. Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I can tell you what I did to my 1906 Winchester 30 WCF to make it shoot tight groups @ 100 yds .................... I had it re-bored, rifled and chambered for 38-55. I left all the 100 yr old crud on the outside of the gun, the 30 WCF stamp was changed 38-55 so well that you can't even tell it was done. It is now one of the best shooting guns that I own. it seems to shoot anything I put into it... smokeless or BP, I have 1" targets groups using both. .... But what I want to know is how you are getting under 3" groups at 100 yds with your Handguns.... now that is pretty impressive! Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Younger Requlator Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I have major issues shooting Moly coated bullets in my 30-30. But its quite accurate with hard cast- gas check regular lube 170 grain bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Whiskey, SASS #75905 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Page 12 Shooters Handbook. Gas Checked loads are not SASS legal. Harder bullet at lower velocity should help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Page 12 Shooters Handbook. Gas Checked loads are not SASS legal. Harder bullet at lower velocity should help you. Keep reading down thru page 19 of that handbook. Expressly allowed in long range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Cow that only pertains to main match ammo go read pg 19 for the allowance of gas checks for long range ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Let me suggest you take a good look at your muzzle, many of these old guns were cleaned from that end and worn out at the muzzle. That it shoots jacketed well kind of rules it out but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I was having trouble with a winchester '94. Couldn't hit a rifle target at 50 yards with it. Took it to my gunsmith, and we were all ready to rebarrel it. He didn't think the bore looked *that* bad though, so he decided to test fire it first. Turned out it was just shooting about 3 feet high for some reason and just needed new sights. I know this doesn't apply to you, but what does apply is that I was surprised at how cheap it would be to get the gun rebarreled. I think it was in the neighborhood of $250. No way I coulda got another one for that price, and even if I did, there'd be no gaurantee it could shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Is there any tricks i should know? Yes. Know the groove diameter of your barrel. Make sure your bullets are sized .001-.002 larger. Use a good quality lube that is appropriate for the speed of your round and the length of your barrel. This will also entail some discernment in bullet selection so that lube is still present at the muzzle. If you want them to shoot faster than ~1400fps, make sure your bullets are "hard", I like numbers >16Bhn on the Brinell hardness scale, or gas-check them. Clean the barrel of ALL copper fouling before you start shooting lead. When you think you have it clean, clean it 3 more times. Whether gas-checked or plain base (don't even try bevel-base bullets), the base must be flat and square to the sides of the bullet. Old, worn-out molds can throw crooked bases, making seating of gas-checks square difficult and in plain base molds, make half the base higher than the other, non-aligned, this will mean as the bullet exits the muzzle, one side has gas pressure relieved before the other, inducing a wobble before it's gone 2 feet. Make sure the crown on the muzzle is good. Whether the crown is flat, recessed or rounded, if the muzzle isn't square to the bore, it'll be just like throwing out of round, non flat based bullets. (With good jacketed groups, I wouldn't suspect this to be a problem). I use a Seaco #316 mold, (150gr GCFN), but others have had excellent success with Lyman or other molds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Garrison Joe has the answer that worked for me on a very old Marlin. I had to REALLY clean it about 10 different times before it would even come CLOSE to where I was aiming. And I mean I worked at it to get it CLEAN of 50 years of 'stuff' ,after that,shot cast real good and i never let a jacketed bullet even near it. Using gas checks kept the barrel cleaner overall too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 A fresh batch of Eds Red Bore Cleaner should help get any gunk out of the rifling. Plug one end of the barrel and fill it up. Let it sit for 30 min or so, drain, Scrub with a brass brush and repeat. Used that mix to clean the carbon out of the chambers on my rugers from shooting only .38 specials. Now to clean chambers I shoot a match using APP. Much more fun than scrubbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you can turn a bullet upside down, and it engages the rifling at the muzzle before it contacts the first driving band, it'll help a bunch. I put countless hrs into trying to make both my 3030 rifles group at 100 yrds with the true shot slug, from Oregon trail. Finally read an article about the fit test with the bullets nose, and tried it with the true shot 170 gc slugs. They rattled with room to spare, falling to the first driving band.I bought the 311041 bullets, and sure enough they engaged towards the base of the nose. They didn't quite engage onthe other rrifle, but fit way better. These bullets weigha little over 180 grs, and showed promise immediately. The rifle that was a slightly looser fit came in tune with one gr less powder than the other. Both are shooting good groups now. They both shot between 3 and 4 inch groups at 100, and far worse with the none gas checked bullet from the same company. I'm sure there's other great bullets out there for the 3030, but I bought a good supply of this one. I think the biggest jump in accuracy was due to a proper fitting bullet. Also suspect many other powders would work other than what I'm currently using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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