T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Rifle and shotgun staged on same table on right side of stage. Pistols are holstered and to be shot on left side of stage. Rifle/pistol/shotgun. Shooter shoots rifle retrieves shotgun and moves to left side of stage, during move shotgun closes, shooter stages closed shotgun on the table closed, then he shoots his pistols. After pistols are shot he retrieves and opens his shotgun to finish shooting the stage. Is there a penalty for the shotgun closing and not reopening during staging at position two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Dang...okay...SDQ...Moving with a closed...yea...cocked... Think I need to get something to eat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 SDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 If both feet moved SDQ. If not minor safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 • Changing location with a live round under a cocked hammer or a gun with the hammer down on a live round. Changing location with a long gun with action closed and hammer cocked. SDQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Shotgun was not loaded and to be used as last gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 RO 1 PG 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 If both feet moved SDQ. If not minor safety. I'm lost. What would the minor safety be for. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 SDQ Reference ROI pgs 24/25 Changing location with a long gun, action closed with hammer cocked, movement defined by basketball traveling rule. See also pg 16 shotgun safe for movement action open or hammers fully down on empty chamber or expended round, action closed also shotguns are to be staged open and chambers empty pg 17 item 16 or restaged open and chambers empty ROI pg 16 item 12. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Moving with a closed shotgun loaded or not is a STQ. Loaded is a MDQ and or loosing control of a gun with the action closed by laying it down and moving to the next gun in the series. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I'm lost. What would the minor safety be for. Thanks I am sorry. I for got about the recent rule change for a minute. It in the past would have been for firing the next gun without opening the action. The only concern here is if he moved both feet or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Moving with a closed shotgun loaded or not is a STQ. Loaded is a MDQ and or loosing control of a gun with the action closed by laying it down and moving to the next gun in the series. Ike Moving with a loaded closed shotgun is still only a SDQ. Setting it down would be a SDQ as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi T, Here is the rule from p. 16 of the ROI. "Shotgun Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty Safe for movement shotgun in hand only • Action open, round in chamber or on carrier • Hammer(s) fully down on empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed." I don't shoot a double and don't know much about them, so I would love to have this explained to me. What would be the difference, if any, for a hammered double, cocked and uncocked and a regular double, if the action accidentally closed on an empty chamber? Would one or all be automatically cocked? Thanks for any help with my understanding the application of these three potential conditions.. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Internal hammered shot guns cock when opened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Hi T, Here is the rule from p. 16 of the ROI. "Shotgun Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty Safe for movement shotgun in hand only • Action open, round in chamber or on carrier • Hammer(s) fully down on empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed." I don't shoot a double and don't know much about them, so I would love to have this explained to me. What would be the difference, if any, for a hammered double, cocked and uncocked and a regular double, if the action accidentally closed on an empty chamber? Would one or all be automatically cocked? Thanks for any help with my understanding the application of these three potential conditions.. Regards, Allie A hammerless double cocks the internal hammers on opening the action. This happens automatically. The shooter would manually cock the externally hammered version External hammers can be physically seen if they are cocked back. Regards and thanks for all you do Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thanks GK! So, assuming the double has external hammers that must be manually cocked and the situation T-Bone described happened without them being cocked and the gun accidentally closed, would result in a no call? Regards, AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 This was not a hammer gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Good info thanks T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Allie That would be a no call. In the OP the sequence called for rifle/pistol/shotgun, nobody but new shooters and Griff ever stage a hammer shotgun with hammers not cocked. I'd bet good money they would typically be cocked. Edited to make Griff happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yep, I'm thinking SDQ if shotgun has hammer(s) cocked if both feet moved AFTER the action closed, no call otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Allie That would be a no call. In the OP the sequence called for rifle/pistol/shotgun, nobody but new shooters ever stage a hammer shotgun with hammers not cocked. I'd bet good money they would typically be cocked. I'm sure you meant to say, "...nobody but Griff and new..." I do it a lot... but then, I'm trying to fill 60 seconds every stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 SDQ Why didn't the shooter just open it when it closed?? The shooter is responsible for watching what happens to his firearms while using them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 OK thanks again. Change things a bit. Same senerio but shooter has a open shotgun on the move and when he stops gun closes after shooter lays it down on prop. shooter does not reopen shotgun. Shooter shoots his pistols then finished with shotgun. Any call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 OK thanks again. Change things a bit. Same senerio but shooter has a open shotgun on the move and when he stops gun closes after shooter lays it down on prop. shooter does not reopen shotgun. Shooter shoots his pistols then finished with shotgun. Any callNo call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 OK thanks again. Change things a bit. Same senerio but shooter has a open shotgun on the move and when he stops gun closes after shooter lays it down on prop. shooter does not reopen shotgun. Shooter shoots his pistols then finished with shotgun. Any call Under the recent change, as long as it's empty when he picks it up and opens it, No Call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 SDQ. New rule...I believe...refers to after shooting the Long Gun. In this case, the gun has been put down before it has been shot...action closed and cocked. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy the Avenger Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 How do we know the hammers are cocked If I hold the trigger on my skb and open it the hammers stay down No way to tell Billy the Avenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 How do we know the hammers are cocked If I hold the trigger on my skb and open it the hammers stay down No way to tell Billy the Avenger Oooookay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy the Avenger Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Just thinking way out side the box Billy the Avenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 SDQ. New rule...I believe...refers to after shooting the Long Gun. In this case, the gun has been put down before it has been shot...action closed and cocked. Phantom So... you want to make a very significant difference in how a possible infraction gets treated before the arm is fired, than after? As I understood T-Bone's modified scenario, it was still staged initially open & empty, picked up and moved; whereupon on being restaged, the action closed, the pistols shot... then finally, the SG. I would say, other'n not being fired, this doesn't differ from a split SG sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 So... you want to make a very significant difference in how a possible infraction gets treated before the arm is fired, than after? As I understood T-Bone's modified scenario, it was still staged initially open & empty, picked up and moved; whereupon on being restaged, the action closed, the pistols shot... then finally, the SG. I would say, other'n not being fired, this doesn't differ from a split SG sequence. The question is whether there exists a difference between a gun that has yet to be fired and is staged - restaged, and one that has been fired. What does the rules say...not what I say...don't make this about me Griff. Looking back at the wording in the Handbook, it's ambiguous. So it would probably be a no-call. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Another interesting situation. For reference here is R.O. I, pages 15 & 16 11. Safe conditions of firearms during a course of fire are as follows: • Revolver(s)Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand. • Hammer fully down on an empty chamber, • Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition). • While the above restrictions apply, there are additional considerations for the Gunfighter. When shooting “Gunfighter Style,” a gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds are to be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred. Physical stage design may allow a competitor shooting “Gunfighter Style” to stage or restage revolvers between firearm sequences.• Rifle Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty • Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use) Safe for movement rifle in hand only • Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed • Action open, round on carrier or in chamber • Shotgun Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty So from that only (there may be other rules I'm missing that expand the above) I would say that the shotgun may be restaged (leave the hand) as long as it is empty. It does not say it also has to be open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thank you Marauder. That was the reference I couldn't seem to locate on a quick perusal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 ...don't make this about me Griff... Phantom Certainly not my intent... my apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.