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.357-40?


H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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We all know that the ".38-40" is really a "40-40." Has anyone ever wondered what kind of performance would have come if Winchester had made the cartridge a "real" .38 with a .357" bullet?

 

I'd guess it would have been, assuming a bullet weight around 150 grains, give or take a few, a quite speedy round.

 

Purely a random speculation.

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Hmmm... Black powder would have limited the round's performance to a degree, but it is intriguing.

 

If you want to,play smokeless, there is a wildcat round based on necking the 44 mag case down to .357. Pretty impressive performance based on what I read in American Handloader.

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It is called a 357-44 Bain and Davis. I shoot it in a Contender and it is a varmints worst nightmare. It might be a little too hot for SASS. I have not tried any reduced loads.

 

I just say'n.

 

Tecate

 

Ah, so someone has thought of the idea, all be it in a more modern sense. Intriguing.

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I heard about the 357-44 Bain Davis round along time ago and have always been on the look out for it. Had a chance once but things didn't work out at the time, but still looking.

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Tom, intriguing question, I often wonder that myself!

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..........an' I saw a .50BMG cartridge necked down to a phonograph needle! :D:D:D:D:P

Way to go............. now you have some of the younger members trying to figure out what a phonograph needle is and how much smaller than a .17 it is! :D

 

My grand daughter came across a box of old 45's and asked what they were. Try explaining a record player to a 10 year old.

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A record player is easy, it is just a giant CD player. Try explaining reel to reel tape machine!

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A record player is easy, it is just a giant CD player. Try explaining reel to reel tape machine!

Or what an awesome game Pong was in 1975 .... :o :o

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We all know that the ".38-40" is really a "40-40." Has anyone ever wondered what kind of performance would have come if Winchester had made the cartridge a "real" .38 with a .357" bullet?

 

I'd guess it would have been, assuming a bullet weight around 150 grains, give or take a few, a quite speedy round.

 

Purely a random speculation.

 

My guess is it wouldn't have worked out in the era the case was developed because the bullets at that time were solid lead and could only pushed so fast anyway.

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A record player is easy, it is just a giant CD player. Try explaining reel to reel tape machine!

Reel to reel is similar to an eight track.......no....it is like a cassette tape......no....I got it it kind of like a floppy disc....oh never mind. :huh:

 

Smoke

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At the turn of the prior century, into the teens I believe Winchester marketed some high velocity loads for the .38-40 meant for the 1892 Winchester rifle.

 

I've used 140 grain bullets meant for .40 S&W and they really performed about the same as the 180's, just didn't crimp well.

 

Your proposed cartridge would be a .36 WCF or a .36-40 or maybe a .36-38 that would make things easier :blink:

 

There is also talk that the .38 is the diameter of the bore from land to land, not groove to groove which is about right, but not a common way to designate cartridges.

 

Making it with modern brass would give you all the detriments of a .45 with none odf the true benefits of a .38

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..........There is also talk that the .38 is the diameter of the bore from land to land, not groove to groove which is about right, but not a common way to designate cartridges..............

Used ta be.. That's how the C&B revolvers were designated. Exemplia gratia (e.g.), thirty-six caliber was about that, plus groove depth gave ball size, .375 or so inches.

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Jmark-remington came out with a rifle load using 130 grain bullet with 1200 or so fps using smokeless powder to be used in the then new 1892 Winchester rifle.

Almost all 38/40's had bore diameter of .40. How would a .38 or .358 work .

I bought some of those 140 grain TCFP from Hunter in .401. Worked up a load for rabbit or tried to, actually hit one, it tumbled a bit, then turned, I swear, I had 2 witnesses, turned took a few steps toward us gave me the dirtiest look and hopped away. :P

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I don't think there would be much difference, I think it is likely the smaller .356 bullet would reach the same terminal velocity as the standard 401 bullet would when using Black powder, so it would less recoil and less energy. Don't see it being any better until you get to modern bullet construction and high performance smokeless powders at which point there are better options

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