J-BAR #18287 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I don't know why a Match Director would want the responsibility... The way it is now, if shooters complain about which scoring is used, the MD can blame the Wild Bunch. If it's the MD's choice, some of his shooters are going to be upset, and there's no place for him to hide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 after the first stage of WR this year, in which I took a miss on the largest. closest targets there, I turned into a "gun manipulator" and found my sights after that!!!!! and it worked!!!! Other than that I wud say NO, but I wud back Time only..... period.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Ya know what it is going in pay your $$ and take your chances NEXT SHOOTER Chickasaw Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Discuss, Yes. And, if necessary, make a decision on which system to use. Decide on a match by match basis NO. If I go to a match in one state I expect the same rules to apply to matches in another state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 70 years ago when I was age 6, kids parties offered Vanilla and Chocolate ice cream in paper cups with a tab to pull of the top of the cup and a little wooden spoon with which to eat the ice cream. Most kids wanted the Chocolate. I always chose Vanilla. As a result, I always had more ice cream to eat than most of the other kids. Perhaps, herein, lies a clue as to why some prefer Rank Points and some prefer Total Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 70 years ago when I was age 6, kids parties offered Vanilla and Chocolate ice cream in paper cups with a tab to pull of the top of the cup and a little wooden spoon with which to eat the ice cream. Most kids wanted the Chocolate. I always chose Vanilla. As a result, I always had more ice cream to eat than most of the other kids. Perhaps, herein, lies a clue as to why some prefer Rank Points and some prefer Total Time. Those are pretty deep thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 But wait , is chocolate rank or total time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 My guess would be total time, though the ice cream analogy would probably work either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Discuss, Yes. And, if necessary, make a decision on which system to use. Decide on a match by match basis NO. If I go to a match in one state I expect the same rules to apply to matches in another state. The scoring system does not change the rules. It only changes the severity of the penalty for breaking the rules based on the shooters abilitys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yes - it works either way - based on one's preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The scoring system does not change the rules. It only changes the severity of the penalty for breaking the rules based on the shooters abilitys. Yeah, yeah I know that. Point is the scoring system to be used is in the "rules" and it should be uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Within this topic and the one about target distance and size lies the answer as to why less than 10% of those in the 30-59 age group who were shooting cowboy action more than 15 years ago no longer shoot cowboy action. Makes me wonder what percentage of those competing now in the "Cowboy" & "49er" categories will still be competing in CAS in another 15 years. And that brings me to my point; "Why should a basic change be made, when less than 10% of you will be around to see the effect that has, down the road?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Within this topic and the one about target distance and size lies the answer as to why less than 10% of those in the 30-59 age group who were shooting cowboy action more than 15 years ago no longer shoot cowboy action. Makes me wonder what percentage of those competing now in the "Cowboy" & "49er" categories will still be competing in CAS in another 15 years. And that brings me to my point; "Why should a basic change be made, when less than 10% of you will be around to see the effect that has, down the road?"It sounds you assume those that are asking about the possible change would all be of the younger group of shooters. Also why should I worry about the environment because anything I do in my life time won't really effect me. Your logic could be used to keep anything from being done. And if your numbers are right about people leaving maybe a change is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Discuss, Yes. And, if necessary, make a decision on which system to use. Decide on a match by match basis NO. If I go to a match in one state I expect the same rules to apply to matches in another state. As it is now, there is no uniformity between states concerning scoring method. At the state level match directors do have the choice between TT and Rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 It sounds you assume those that are asking about the possible change would all be of the younger group of shooters. Also why should I worry about the environment because anything I do in my life time won't really effect me. Your logic could be used to keep anything from being done. And if your numbers are right about people leaving maybe a change is in order. No. I used that age group as I'm assuming that a much, much larger percentage than >10 will be alive and physically capable of competing. Change that affects the future of the game should be very carefully considered before implementation. A change to simply placate a majority may have severe unintended consequences that even the most clairvoyant opponents couldn't foresee. And, yes, maybe a change is in order, but that needn't preclude one other than proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Question re: the SHB reason for use of Rank Scoring: Rank scoring is recommended when all the stages in a match are not of approximately the same duration and degree of difficulty. When was the last time that a MAJOR match (i.e. Regional level and above) had stages that were NOT "of approximately the same duration and degree of difficulty"? Most of us know what happens when they are not...bottlenecks and extended waiting times to shoot. IMO...the basic premise behind Rank Scoring is pretty much gone from the game at the upper level matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 My one word answer: IDONTCAREIMGONNAHAVEFUNEITHERWAY Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.C. Moonshine Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 As a Match Director and Owner of a small range. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You mean the shooter can't choose, already? Are you saying shooters are forced to go to a match they don't like? Are there matches where different scoring programs are applied to different shooters? As long as every one at the match is scored the same, I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 MD's. The shooters vote with an application for them to participate or by going to another match. I get to shoot 2 to 3 multi-day matches a year, no more and no less. I have my favorites, a list of second choices and a list that I will not attend, mostly due to distance but some due to poor stage writing. I do have a preference between the stage poitns and total time. A shooter takes themselves out of contention by one major mess up. I do not know of the third approved method. If that is a subjective who-has-the-fun points, I would likely have that as my favorite since I have fun even when I shoot poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird, SASS #22893 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo, # 29989 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No....what's next, shooters decide which trophies they want to win.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No....what's next, shooters decide which trophies they want to win.? +1 Or the stages they want to shoot and not shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No....what's next, shooters decide which trophies they want to win.? Sorry but I don't see the comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 No....what's next, shooters decide which trophies they want to win.? If my shooters came to me in a significant number and requested a certain type of trophy be used for the awards at their match I would do everything in my power to make it happen. If there was a choice of scoring systems to be used I would also like to provide them with something that they would enjoy more. After all, they do pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In fact the idea that any match director would not want to give their shooters the choice truly boggles my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In fact the idea that any match director would not want to give their shooters the choice truly boggles my mind. Yep - well said. This is entertainment...how many times have we heard that? So...do what provides the most entertainment for your customers. If your area is dominated by TT...then use TT...and the same holds trye to those areas that prefer RP. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 If my shooters came to me in a significant number and requested a certain type of trophy be used for the awards at their match I would do everything in my power to make it happen. If there was a choice of scoring systems to be used I would also like to provide them with something that they would enjoy more. After all, they do pay the bills.Exactly! We use TT at Doc Hollidays, which is the scoring method I'm pretty sure the majority prefer. If a majority of our shooters wanted to switch to RP I would switch even though it isn't my preferred method. Oh, and my answer to Stan is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 i went to a total time match not long ago and then several weeks later i went to a rank point match… it appears that YES match directors can choose which scoring method they wanna use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 i went to a total time match not long ago and then several weeks later i went to a rank point match… it appears that YES match directors can choose which scoring method they wanna use The question was in reference to regional and above matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boben Weev Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes, match directors choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The question was in reference to regional and above matches. By some of the comments I wasn't sure we were all talking about 8 or 10 matches… Disclaimer: I haven't counted the Regions lately or canada or europe or Roo land or South Africa or however those go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 IMO I'm with a universal system that all the matches used so they are equal. Matches by their very location and region are not, and can never be equal. So, YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Matches by their very location and region are not, and can never be equal. So, YES. Nor should they be. There's something about having to play against LSU in Death Valley, or the Red Sox at Fenway, or Denver at Mile High that is special. Why shouldn't we have similar unique experiences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Nor should they be. There's something about having to play against LSU in Death Valley, or the Red Sox at Fenway, or Denver at Mile High that is special. Why shouldn't we have similar unique experiences? I could not agree more. Home field advantage should mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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