Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If TO is seeing misses and reporting it, then they are spotting, which makes them the 4th spotter.or trying to sway one or possible two of the other Three Spotters to change what they believe/know was true. And not watching the gun or the shooter. So many people (Spotters) will cave and change their count to whatever is lower. A shame but an effective way for friends to help friends and on top of that, not everyone is treated the same. Some have four spotters, some only have three. On the other hand, I have no problem with TO's callling P's or Safeties. Funny, I know. I've seen the cluster of folks, including the TO, down at the target examining it for an edger. Have seen fence sitters get into it too. I have not seen A TO or posse member vigerously (sp) trying to sway the Spotters that it was a Miss. Call it like you see it.... I disagree with your statement of not being a good TO. Edit: FWIW, I do what I said above, look at gun and shooter and not at target. You seem to have an ability to not understand what I'm saying...or I have a bad way of articulating my thoughts...one of the two. Never said that a TO should spot...did I??? Again, the TO is in a rather unique position with regards to their proximity to the shooter. IF (here's the key word), the TO happens to see something that the spotters might not have seen because of their unique physical location, then they should disseminate that info to the OFFICIAL spotters. The TO should not bully or threaten the spotters, just give 'em the info. Just as a GOOD TO will call a P when they are the only one to see it, they do so because they might be the only one to see it...again, because of their unique position. If you are TO'ing for me and happen to see an edge hit...and you don't say anything...please, pass the timer off before I get on the Stage. Nothing personal... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Stop and think that someone here might know something you don't. TO's are not "Spotting", but CAN see things that a spotter might miss. Disseminating that information and then letting the spotters make the call is what the Job requires...some folks will never have helpful info to offer as they tend to not pay attention or can't pay attention to such things. If you are ignoring what you see...you are not, IMHO, being a good TO. Phantom +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If TO is seeing misses and reporting it, then they are spotting, which makes them the 4th spotter.or trying to sway one or possible two of the other Three Spotters to change what they believe/know was true. And not watching the gun or the shooter. So many people (Spotters) will cave and change their count to whatever is lower. A shame but an effective way for friends to help friends and on top of that, not everyone is treated the same. Some have four spotters, some only have three. On the other hand, I have no problem with TO's callling P's or Safeties. Funny, I know. I've seen the cluster of folks, including the TO, down at the target examining it for an edger. Have seen fence sitters get into it too. I have not seen A TO or posse member vigerously (sp) trying to sway the Spotters that it was a Miss. Call it like you see it.... I disagree with your statement of not being a good TO. Edit: FWIW, I do what I said above, look at gun and shooter and not at target. Edit, edit: If shooter wants to remove all doubt of an edger call and improve his score, just hit the x$*& target dead center, with a bullet big enough to be seen and heard. These are the Pards I want TOing and spotting for me! PS: I intentional aim for all edges all the time with every shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 You seem to have an ability to not understand what I'm saying...or I have a bad way of articulating my thoughts...one of the two. Never said that a TO should spot...did I??? Again, the TO is in a rather unique position with regards to their proximity to the shooter. IF (here's the key word), the TO happens to see something that the spotters might not have seen because of their unique physical location, then they should disseminate that info to the OFFICIAL spotters. The TO should not bully or threaten the spotters, just give 'em the info. Just as a GOOD TO will call a P when they are the only one to see it, they do so because they might be the only one to see it...again, because of their unique position. If you are TO'ing for me and happen to see an edge hit...and you don't say anything...please, pass the timer off before I get on the Stage. Nothing personal... Phantom I doubt we will ever posse together in this Life Time or the next. Perhaps in the Life Time after that, we may, and if so, I will try to Safely Assist you through the stage and protect you from yourself. . If you don't want assistance, then tell me and I shall stand by and just time. I understand your word smithing from your two post. I understand your concern about having a TO 'not' injecting BOD to your Spotters, while your competition perhaps is getting injected BOD from their TO. It is a percentage game strategy advantage thingy, that your TO can give you but not necessarily to others. If the TO spends more time watching the targets for edgers, then the percentage for a better score goes up. Perhaps that is to be expected when TOing a sub 15 second shooter. You can not save them, so might as well stand back and watch the show. While watching the show, look for edgers. On the flip side, when the TO sees miss(es) and the Spotters do not, have never seen the TO inject his view to influence the Spotters. As to be expected, there will always be selective watching and reporting by the TO as far as edgers. For me, as stated, I watch the gun and shooter. As usual, nothing will change, nor will change. Part of the Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 My only Pet Peeve is a late start. Once the fun begins, I'll roll with flow of the posse. Just sayin' AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Stopping at 6 on a beautiful day. If I am ever lucky enough to run a club, I will offer "practice" stages after we are done for those that would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I doubt we will ever posse together in this Life Time or the next. Perhaps in the Life Time after that, we may, and if so, I will try to Safely Assist you through the stage and protect you from yourself. . If you don't want assistance, then tell me and I shall stand by and just time. I understand your word smithing from your two post. I understand your concern about having a TO 'not' injecting BOD to your Spotters, while your competition perhaps is getting injected BOD from their TO. It is a percentage game strategy advantage thingy, that your TO can give you but not necessarily to others. If the TO spends more time watching the targets for edgers, then the percentage for a better score goes up. Perhaps that is to be expected when TOing a sub 15 second shooter. You can not save them, so might as well stand back and watch the show. While watching the show, look for edgers. On the flip side, when the TO sees miss(es) and the Spotters do not, have never seen the TO inject his view to influence the Spotters. As to be expected, there will always be selective watching and reporting by the TO as far as edgers. For me, as stated, I watch the gun and shooter. As usual, nothing will change, nor will change. Part of the Game. Stop with the insulting "word smithing" stuff. That's silly. TO's might...might not...see an edger. If they do as they, again, are in a unique position, then they need to say something. Too bad you can't see out of the corner of your eyes while watching the gun/shooter...perhaps TO'ing shouldn't be a part of your posse chores. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Please don't make this personal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Pet Peve, at all matches. Safety meetings that run way too long with many speakers that just like to hear the sound of their voice making matches start and run late. If the match director has a lot of things to say at the meeting start the meeting earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 When Cowboy Sidematches are cut short or not held,because of WB being run ... Seems downright Wrong to let WB catering to maybe a dozen shooters interfere with sidematches that 100 + shooters would enjoy ... That and Spoters that don't spot... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordyce Beals Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Amen, Folks yelling for people to get to the loading table cause THEY don't want to shoot first. (on a load when ready posse) It happened to me at a State shoot where no body wanted to shoot first. I was loading before I was ready... If you had to shoot first sometimes at monthly's, i.e. shoot in order then drop two shooter at next bay, this would be part of the skill set you practiced! I am ready to shoot when ready and to shoot in order and not be intimidated. Practice what you need to do. Fordyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Hi Folks, I prefer to shoot early and have shot entire annual matches first. Luckily, with the name Allie Mo, my name comes up early if we go as printed. What we do at The Outlaws is call the names out as the separate sheets appear. Then, we ask who wants to change their place. We do that before we start, so the sheets are in shooting order. Occasionally someone will need a potti break, have a gun problem, or just not be ready. That is always okay. So, that is basically in order/at will/with exceptions. That won't work at annuals where all names are on one sheet. However, the one sheet should be alphabetized to enable the scorer to easily find the shooter. Dropping two names each stage, is okay with me too. Although, I don't like being last, it usually only happens once. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLORADO JACKSON Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Stop with the insulting "word smithing" stuff. That's silly. TO's might...might not...see an edger. If they do as they, again, are in a unique position, then they need to say something. Too bad you can't see out of the corner of your eyes while watching the gun/shooter...perhaps TO'ing shouldn't be a part of your posse chores. Phantom Phantom for President 2016!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 +1.... way too much 'peevin' goin on. I swear that we'd argue over daylight. SASS is the only shooting sport that I know about that allows competitors to basically score themselves at hi level matches. This eliminates the need for a squad of independent RO's, but insures inconsistent results, too. While it's good that we take it seriously; it also seems so petty at times as to be extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Betcha I do, as will as acting as Match Director for 2-3 matches a year. Any other snide comments? Let's all try to keep this civil. I agree that a TO has certain responsibilities and if he is in the correct position he can see things others can't. A good spotter should review the targets at the beginning of his "shift" to make a mental note of edgers already existing. If a TO or spotter sees an edge hit and the projectal strike on the ground is seen to be appropriate, then it's the spotter or RO's job to point it out with the ultimate call to be made by the spotters... I've seen bullying from TO's and if they are doing it at my shoot it will not be tolerated. I will say that I have shot with Phantom and he is an excellent TO. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 My only real pet peeve is the "we don't have to call it, it's just a monthly" or "they aren't going to win anyways" attitude. For some people monthlys really matter and where a person places in the match should have zero bearing on how a call is made. When someone comes to me with a WTC at a match I, whenever possible try to answer the question befor I find out who the shooter is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Shadow Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have to say, it pains me some to see the aggravation this game causes some of you. I have experienced many of the things you all have mentioned here, and, although I don't enjoy them, the joy this game and you people bring me, makes it all worth while, so to speak.. I have to say, though, that I don't care much for cheaters, but, cheaters are going to cheat. It's a fact of life and they know who they are. Cheat all you want. You can't beat me. Only I can do that. If a cheater posts a faster time than me for a match, then, they are no better than a thief, stealing my brass ring. They certainly didn't beat me. I, also, must admit, I don't care to associate with people who feel a need to cheat I have spent much time and practice trying to develop an attitude of "don't sweat the small stuff" and "it's all small stuff", and, just like my shooting, I'm rarely as successful as I'd like to be, but, I just keep trying. I genuinely look forward to meeting all of you and spending some time enjoying this game with you. We'll be at Bordertown and Winter Range in the coming months and I hope we can have an opportunity to have a laugh or two with some new friends. Have Fun SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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