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hunting rifle question


Trigger Mike

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I have enough points on my credit card to pay for the bulk of most of their hunting rifles at cabelas. I don't want a remington as i heard too many stories of accidental discharge and i don't want a savage as i had one and it sometimes failed to chamber and sometimes failed to eject and the trigger was too light. Im thinking either browning, ruger or winchester but may consider a weatherby. I am leaning toward the combos that include scopes like the link below. right now I carry either a ww2 Springfield 1903a4 (Gibbs rifle that does great) or a Mosin Nagant sniper but I'm getting old and 10 pounds thru the woods is not as fun as it used to be.

 

 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearms/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action-Centerfire-Rifles|/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105523380/Browningreg-AB3-Composite-Stalker-Bolt-Action-Rifle-with-Redfield-Revenge-3-9x42-Scope-and-Gun-Case-Combo/1995741.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbolt-action-centerfire-rifles%2F_%2FN-1114860%2FNo-96%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D48

 

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How about a Kimber Montana...? :)

 

A mite pricier, but interesting - a modern answer to the Savage Model 1920 (one of which my son and I each have).

 

Before you condemn the Savage reference, the similarity between the Kimber and the Model '20 is weight and ease of handling.

 

Kimber Montana

 

Comparison Article

 

Kimber Montana and Savage Model 20:

 

RM-0814-2.jpg

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I have a Winchester Model 70 Compact 7mm-08 and it is a nice rifle to carry and shoot. I've shot bison, elk, deer and antelope with it and never needed more than one shot.

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Were I you , I would not dismiss a new Remington 700. That said , my own tastes in a bolt-action would run to Ruger M-77 or a controlled-feed Winchester M-70. Just the traditionalist in me. Don't actually have a bolt gun , my own rifle is a Ruger Number 1.

 

Good luck and good hunting. Rex :D

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Remington finally owned up to the AD issue with their model 700s. There is a factory recall available for the serial number in question.

That said there are a lot of really good affordable bolt actions available.

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How about a Kimber Montana...? :)

 

A mite pricier, but interesting - a modern answer to the Savage Model 1920 (one of which my son and I each have).

 

Before you condemn the Savage reference, the similarity between the Kimber and the Model '20 is weight and ease of handling.

 

Kimber Montana

 

Comparison Article

 

Kimber Montana and Savage Model 20:

 

RM-0814-2.jpg

Don't discount Savage. Their rifles of late have been getting exceptional reviews.
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I have enough points on my credit card to pay for the bulk of most of their hunting rifles at cabelas. I don't want a remington as i heard too many stories of accidental discharge and i don't want a savage as i had one and it sometimes failed to chamber and sometimes failed to eject and the trigger was too light. Im thinking either browning, ruger or winchester but may consider a weatherby. I am leaning toward the combos that include scopes like the link below. right now I carry either a ww2 Springfield 1903a4 (Gibbs rifle that does great) or a Mosin Nagant sniper but I'm getting old and 10 pounds thru the woods is not as fun as it used to be.

 

 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Firearms/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action-Centerfire-Rifles|/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105523380/Browningreg-AB3-Composite-Stalker-Bolt-Action-Rifle-with-Redfield-Revenge-3-9x42-Scope-and-Gun-Case-Combo/1995741.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbolt-action-centerfire-rifles%2F_%2FN-1114860%2FNo-96%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D48

 

I've always been partial to the Winchester Featherweight. Just bought a new grade III FW in .270, added a Leupold 3.5x10 and love it!

 

Part of the decision is based on range you intend to shoot and game you want to shoot at, and how far are you walking to get that shot.

 

For me sub-350 yds was a reasonable restriction, and it's doubtful I'll hunt anything as large as Elk, but may well go down to coyote,

so the light barreled FW, and in .270 which I can load from 90 gainr bullets to 145 grain bullets, will do most of what I want to do with a

modern rifle. It is a long action in .270, the .243 and .308 actions are a mite bit smaller still.

 

So far I've only put a box or two this rifle whilst sighting it in, but I'm loving it.

 

I've had other rifles in the past, 94's, FW in .223 and other bolt guns and semi's as well, this one seems to have hit my sweet spot at

this time in my life!

 

SC

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the last two years both deer I got (i limit myself to one a year since that is all my kids will eat) were at 150 yards. I plan on getting a 30.06 because I have so much of that caliber and don't want to break into a new caliber. I considered 223 as well but want good take down and a 3006 is more forgiving if the shot is not exactly where it should be placed. I have a bad habit of shooting low and the 3006 still takes them down. I don't walk a lot to the stand but sometimes they see me before I can get a shot and run but I know where they run and sometimes can get in front of them again and that run would be easier with a lighter rifle. last year I got there right before they crossed another trail so did not have time to get set, a hair faster and i would have been ready.

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I have hunted deer for the last 20 years or so with a Ruger model 1 in 7mm mag but Christmas before last I bought my young son a Howa combo in 7mm-08. He graciously let the old man use it one trip and I am now the proud owner of a 7mm-08 myself. Great shooting rifles with very manageable recoil and the price wasn't so bad either. After seeing the price of the Ruger Model 1's steadily go up mine is pretty much a safe queen now and the Remington 700 in 30-06 is my backup. I did find that we have had much better results with the 140 grain Federal Fusion bullets than we had with Core Lokt ammo.

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I have a Rem 700 Classic in 30-06 that is a tack driver. And a Browning A-Bolt in 30-06 with the BOSS system that will turn in 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yds. My favorite deer rifle is a Ruger #1 in 45-70 with a Lupold 4X scope. The Tikka T3 has an excellent reputation for accuracy out of the box. Buy what you like.

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I have a Rem 700 BDL that I bought new in 1977. Cal. 30-06. At 100 yards it's 1 MOA to 1.5 MOA accuracy range. Not a bench rest target rifle but for a hunting rifle, more than adequate to take a deer at any range I feel comfortable shooting a living creature. I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at 300 yards although the longest range I've ever shot a deer has been about 150 yards. Deer took about 20 steps and fell over dead.

 

The accidental discharge claims, while I believe legitimate, do seem to be somewhat few and far between given the number of 700 rifles Rem has sold over the years. Mine has never given me a moment's trouble. It goes bang when I pull the trigger and only when I pull the trigger.

 

Given the poor quality of some of the Remington / Marlin guns I've seen lately, not sure I'd buy a new Rem 700 but an older one could be a nice addition to the stable.

 

If I had to have new, today I would look into a Browning, Kimber, or Ruger. As for caliber, if deer east of the Mississippi were my targeted species, I'd most likely go with a .243. 30-06 Springfield is a wonderful cartridge but for deer, I'd most likely go with something a bit smaller. Save the shoulder some grief during range sight in sessions (ain't as young as I was back in 1977) :D

 

GS.

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Great opportunity to buy American without making compromises.

Ruger Model 77 or Number 1

Savage: Their higher-end guns are safe, reliable and a good value.

Remington: A model 7 in .260 would be great gun for game in the southeast US.

On the pricier side: Cooper, Ultralite, Kimber

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Accidental discharges in the Remington rifles was due to people messing with the trigger assembly. As stated before, the latest Remington recall involved the lower end rifles such as the S.P.S model.

 

If your intent on something else. I recently found a Browning 300 Win in an A - Bolt model. It was a model that was left over from a few years back but it was still new.

 

As for performance, it shoots the 180 grain accubond into an 2.5 inch group at 300 yards.

I killed a 5×6 bull elk with it last hunting season at 110 yards.

 

Just my 2 cents worth. .. Good luck!

 

Respectfully,

CBA 3195

 

 

.

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The Remmy trigger deal was NOT always from folk mess'n with the triggers. That was proven, and that's the reason Remmy did an about face.

OP-What are you hunting and at what distance?

Remember this-The 'lighter' you go in weight. The more you'll feel it when shooting.

OLG

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My Remington 700 is an older model, probably late 1970s or early 1980s production. I've had nary a problem with it. Besides, if you follow the 1st rule of safe gun handling, "Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction," you'll be fine. Don't mess with the trigger assembly, and don't try to test the safety by pulling the trigger when the safety is on.

 

That said, the model 700s coming off the production line these days leave a lot to be desired. Their quality is not what it used to be.

 

I also have a Ruger M77 in .270 that works great. For the price, it's a great gun. You don't need a $1000 rifle to get quality. Remember to save a decent chunk of change for a quality scope. The $60 Bushnell or Simmons will not cut the mustard. Look at Leopold, Zeiss, Zwarofsky. Some folks swear by Nikon, which is a lot less expensive than those three; they say the quality is on par with those names, though. I cannot say from experience because I don't own a Nikon scope. I do own a pair of their binoculars and am more than pleased with them (I can read license plates at nearly a mile!).

 

Or, stay cowboy and get a lever gun! You can always get a caliber that is not designed for SASS and hunt something a mite bigger. Or, get a SASS gun in .44 Magnum and hunt deer-sized game just fine and have a back-up SASS gun to boot.

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Cyrus, the point you made abut the scope raises my next question i had planned on asking. the red field and simmons scopes that come in these package deals i assume are lower quality. When you say they will not cut the mustard please elaborate. I was thinking of the package deals just for ease of everything at once but am open to buying a rifle without scope and buying a better scope as a good rifle with bad sights is not much good

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Cyrus, the point you made abut the scope raises my next question i had planned on asking. the red field and simmons scopes that come in these package deals i assume are lower quality. When you say they will not cut the mustard please elaborate. I was thinking of the package deals just for ease of everything at once but am open to buying a rifle without scope and buying a better scope as a good rifle with bad sights is not much good

 

From what I've read Leupold now owns and builds the Redfield scopes. I'm guessing the quality has gone up since they took it over. Older Redfield's were good scopes, but the quality went down the last few years. Don't buy a package rifle. They put the cheapest scope of the product line on those. Save your bucks and spend that savings on a good scope. Even the Leupold Vari X 1 is a bunch better than any of the package gun scopes. And Leupold has a lifetime warranty. The 30-06 is a great caliber and will take any critter on this continent. Plus the ammo for it is cheaper and has a wide selection of bullet weights.

As for the rifle, I can only say from experience a few years ago that the Ruger needs trigger work They come from the factory with an insane stiff trigger pull. So having the trigger group replaced is another $100-150 more for a good one. The Savage of late has gotten excellent reviews in both price and accuracy and come with an "accu trigger" which means you can adjust it yourself to the pull and break pounds you want. Down to I think...3 1/2 lbs.

The Remington 700's that were having problems were the ones that had serrations on the trigger face. The 700's with a smooth trigger face were not on that recall. I have an older 700 in 270 that's a tack driver. I had a Winchester model 70 in 06 that I sold when my knees told me to stop hunting Elk. They don't like climbing up mountains anymore.

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Cyrus, the point you made abut the scope raises my next question i had planned on asking. the red field and simmons scopes that come in these package deals i assume are lower quality. When you say they will not cut the mustard please elaborate. I was thinking of the package deals just for ease of everything at once but am open to buying a rifle without scope and buying a better scope as a good rifle with bad sights is not much good

Hold a setting, and hold up in the real world of a hunting trip. Clarity of the glass and moisture sealing.

Look at Nikon for good cost vs what you get.

OLG

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cabelas sells the Leopold VX-1 for 299 and the leopold integrated rings were 99. My points cover them both but don't leave me much for the rifle but thats ok. Im leaning toward a winchester or may consider a weatherby. I did not know the ruger has a stiff trigger. before deciding i will go to town and try out different brands.

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Ck the eye relief of the scope, to be sure you don't end up with a 3rd eyebrow from recoil. ;)

OLG

 

Cyrus, the point you made abut the scope raises my next question i had planned on asking. the red field and simmons scopes that come in these package deals i assume are lower quality. When you say they will not cut the mustard please elaborate. I was thinking of the package deals just for ease of everything at once but am open to buying a rifle without scope and buying a better scope as a good rifle with bad sights is not much good

 

 

Hold a setting, and hold up in the real world of a hunting trip. Clarity of the glass and moisture sealing.

Look at Nikon for good cost vs what you get.

OLG

 

 

Ck the eye relief of the scope, to be sure you don't end up with a 3rd eyebrow from recoil. ;)

OLG

 

There you go, answered for me!

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Cyrus, the point you made abut the scope raises my next question i had planned on asking. the red field and simmons scopes that come in these package deals i assume are lower quality. When you say they will not cut the mustard please elaborate. I was thinking of the package deals just for ease of everything at once but am open to buying a rifle without scope and buying a better scope as a good rifle with bad sights is not much good

 

Few years back I bought a 300WM, Winchester Model 70 package, with a 3x9 Simmons on it.

 

Living in KY at the time, I shot several deer with it over the season, and it had come off of zero by the end of the season. So far off that I missed the last deer I shot at that season, several times.

 

Simmons and Redfield scopes are great for .22's... I wouldn't have one on any centerfire rifle. Tasco is another brand to stay away from, on centerfire rifles.

 

I have a Remington .308, with a fixed 6 power Leupold scope. It was zero'd about 20 years ago when my Dad bought it for me, and hasn't been touched since. Still shoots zero.

 

My 300 has a 3-400 dollar Burris 3x9-40mm scope on it. It's been zero'd for about 10 years, and still shoots zero. Lots of hot handloads outa that gun too. That scope has been tested to the extreme.

 

Both rifles have been dropped, kicked, knocked over, etc... Never had either scope fog, glass is still clear, etc...

 

The scope is more important than the gun/caliber you choose. I won't shoot at an animal with anything other than Burris or Leupold. I'm sure there are other good options, but those are proven options, for me. I don't like risking an ugly kill on an unfamiliar brand, after my experiences with Tasco, and Simmons.

 

.300 Win Mag is a little heavy for deer, you have to make sure you're shooting a high quality bullet, so you don't bruise and bloody the impact area too bad.

 

.308 is perfect for deer, and great for elk. My first elk was with my old .308 Remington, and didn't go more than 20 feet.

 

.30-06 is great for deer and elk, probably killed more of each than every other caliber combined.

 

Lots of people kill elk with .2xx/7mm caliber cartridges, but you have to be careful about bullet selection. Those cartridges are moving fast enough that your average box of store bought don't hold together when they hit a heavy animal, and they can tear up more meat than they should. You'll hear stories out west of those guns taking multiple shots to bring down a heavy elk due to bad bullets too. I don't have any experience there though, I've always stuck to a .30 cal.

 

And on that note, if you're going to stick to deer, don't forget about 30-30's. Great deer gun, and with good shot placement they'll kill an elk.

 

They're also less expensive most of the time. A fixed 4x scope for one is cheaper too, and all the scope you need on a 30-30.

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Oh... It's long been my opinion that the weatherby name is what you're paying for with those guns.

 

They're good rifles, but... It's like buying a Chevrolet over a GMC, in the utility sense.

 

The Chevy won't do a thing the GMC can't.

 

Save the money for a good scope.

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My 700 Remington in 270 has an older Bushnell 3x9 with the built in range finder and drop compensator in it. They built them better back then. It'll still shoot a 1/2inch 3 round group at 100 yds. I've used the heck out of that rifle on deer and speed goats...aka antelope. Out here in eastern Montana you seldom get a shot under 200 yards. I can say, and have it backed up from a friend that was with me, I took an antelope at 565 yds. It went down where it stood using a 130 grain Nosler boat tail bullet. My 2 uncles who I started hunting with when I was 12 (my dad didn't hunt) both had 270's and I used both of theirs over the years until I got mine. One uncle was a logger in western Montana and he took quite a few elk with his, including a 6x6 bull. Shot placement is as important if not more as caliber is. Personally I preferred the 06 for elk but the 270 for everything else.

The 30-30 held the top spot for taking of game until, I think, the early 70's when the 06 took over that claim. It's an extremely versatile cartridge.

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I just know last year I shot a buck that was uphill at 150 yards on the other side of a tree (I was thinking he'd come down a different trail than he did) and my shot was low with my Mosin Nagant Sniper rifle but it gutted him and he left intestine looking matter on the ground. he rn a short distance but could not go any further but a few years back another buck was uphill the same distance and I shot low with a 1903A4 sniper in 3006 and it went across his chest(right below his shoulder ) but dod not cut the skin near like the one with the Nagant and the 3006 spun him around and he fell. Other deer that I hit where i was supposed dropped like a bad transmission with a 3006.

 

I hunted with the nagant sniper last year as it was supposed to rain and a nagant does not sell for as much as a 1903a4. I need to put my military arms up and hunt with a civilian rifle.

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I just know last year I shot a buck that was uphill at 150 yards on the other side of a tree (I was thinking he'd come down a different trail than he did) and my shot was low with my Mosin Nagant Sniper rifle but it gutted him and he left intestine looking matter on the ground. he rn a short distance but could not go any further but a few years back another buck was uphill the same distance and I shot low with a 1903A4 sniper in 3006 and it went across his chest(right below his shoulder ) but dod not cut the skin near like the one with the Nagant and the 3006 spun him around and he fell. Other deer that I hit where i was supposed dropped like a bad transmission with a 3006.

 

I hunted with the nagant sniper last year as it was supposed to rain and a nagant does not sell for as much as a 1903a4. I need to put my military arms up and hunt with a civilian rifle.

Why-those rifles were made to 'hunt' what could/would kill you.

The '03 would be my first choice for tough hunting conditions, as that's what Uncle Sam had it built for.

OLG

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In my opinion (take it for what it's worth) a good scope uses glass for the optics. Bushnell, Simmons, Tasco, and all the other inexpensive ones use PLASTIC! Glass keeps the eye relief long enough that you won't end up with a crescent moon between your eyebrows, and gives you a clear sight picture. Plastic does the opposite. Quality scopes also hold their zero, especially when you have variable magnification -- cheaper ones will lose their zero when you adjust the magnification.

 

Remember, you don't need a zillion power magnification. I see a LOT of gunstore commandos buying 24X scopes for their elk rifles. I ask them how far they will take a shot when hunting, and I usually get an answer like "300 yards." You only need about a 4X or perhaps 6X to take a 300 yard shot! My .270 has a fixed 4X scope and my .30-06 has a 3-9X scope (both are superior quality scopes). The latter I've never adjusted greater than 6X in the field. I practice out to 500 yards but only hunt out to 300 yards; I'm a competitive pistol shooter but merely competent with a rifle, so I know my limitations, "dope" with the ammo I carry, and want to minimize the chances of a poor shot that merely wounds the animal. For ethical reasons, I want him to drop in his tracks and never know he was shot, so I limit the range at which I'll take a shot to ensure good accuracy.

 

If you're like me and will not be hunting beyond 300 yards (PLEASE, for ethics' sake, know your limitations in the field as opposed to the range!), you do not need to invest in a scope that has a bullet drop compensator. Sure, it's nice to have, but at 300 yards all you have to do is practice and know your dope. Bullet drop compensators are for those with too much disposable income and snipers.

 

Rather than investing in bells and whistles, just buy a basic scope of suprerior quality.

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The redfield revolution scopes are American made. Good image quality and great eye relief.

I agree 100% I have a Redfield Revolution 3X9 on a 375 H&H that has had well over 250 rounds fired and it has held zero perfectly. Eye relief is around 4" They can be bought for around $175 and have a lifetime warranty. I believe that only the Revolution is American made. I don't know where the rest of the Redfield line is made.

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Well Cyrus, I'm very comfortable out to and past 300 yards. I know my rifle, my ammo and my scope. On that day if I'd not had the drop compensator I wouldn't have taken the shot. It was the last day of speed goat season and it was a very nice buck antelope. I had sighted the rifle in out to 600 yards, so I knew where the bullet would go.

I don't know what the terrain you hunt in is, but eastern Montana has a lot of wide open spaces and few hills where we were hunting to sneak in closer. And I'm NOT a wanna be sniper. I haven't hunted for several years now. My knees argue with me each time I even think about it, but 20 years ago I hunted a lot at the time I took that shot.

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The longest shot I've ever taken was about 250 yards. Small buck, across a creek bottom to the ridge on the other side. Hardest part was carrying him back across the creek.

 

That said, with that rifle and a standard 3x9 scope, I'm comfortable to 400ish.

 

I'd want a scope dialed in and a lot of practice for anything further.

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